Sejin Pak
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[기독교] 미국 신학교 학장이 천국, 기적, 그리스도의 부활을 믿지 않는다고
- 퀘이커와 가까와 지고 있다. 한탄하는 기독교인도 있지만 좋은 경향이라고 보인다. 정말로 중요한 것에 주목하자는 것으로 들으면 된다.
변영권
dt27SS pAhlonnsproial Ststr20Sfh1eo9d ·
전문을 번역할까 하다가 귀찮아서 세렌 존스의 발언 부분만 대충 번역했습니다.
마지막 남침례회의 아무개가 떠든 반응이 재미있어요. 정확하게 예수님을 반대했던 당시 종교인들의 광광대는 소리랑 일치하는 듯??
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<신학대 학장이 자신은 천국, 기적, 그리스도의 부활을 믿지 않는다고 인정하다>
1836년에 "무오한" 하느님의 말씀을 기초로 해서 설립된 신학교의 학장이 새로운 인터뷰에서 그녀는 그리스도의 육체부활, 기도의 능력, 문자적인 천국이나 기적을 믿지 않는다고 말했다.
뉴욕 유니온 신학대학의 학장인 세렌 존스는... 문자 그대로의 그리스도의 육체 부활을 거부한다.
"복음서를 보면, 그 이야기들은 여기 저기에 나온다. 마가에는 부활 이야기가 없다. 그저 빈 무덤만 있을 뿐이다. 무슨 일이 일어났는지 알고 있다고 하는 사람들은 자신을 속이고 있는 것이다. 십자가 처형은 하느님이 저 윗층에서 조종하시는 그런 사건이 아니다. 하느님이 사람들을 용서하기 위해서 자기 자녀를 십자가에 보내는 아버지 같은 폭력적인 하느님이라는 만연한 생각은 미친 소리다. 나에게 십자가는 우리 인간의 증오로 만들어진 법(enactment)이다. 그러나 부활절에 일어난 것은 고통 가운데에서 일어난 사랑의 승리다. 그것이 바로 희망의 이유 아닐까?"
그녀는 기도를 통해 하느님이 기적적인 치료를 하신다는 개념을 거부한다.
"나는 기도하면 당신 어머니의 암을 고쳐주지만, 기도하지 않는 당신 이웃의 어머니는 고쳐주지 않는 하느님을 믿지 않는다. 우리는 하느님을 그런 식으로 조종할 수 없다."
그녀는 동정녀 탄생을 거부한다.
"나는 처녀 탄생을 이상한 주장이라고 생각한다. 그것은 예수의 가르침과는 아무 관계가 없다. 처녀 탄생은 당신이 성을 죄라고 여기는 신학을 갖고 있을 때만 중요한 문제가 된다. 그것은 또한 순수하고, 자연 그대로인 여성의 몸이 최상의 몸이라는 생각을 조장하며, 그러한 생각은 오랜 세월 동안 여성을 억압해 왔다."
사람들이 죽은 뒤에 어떤 일이 일어나는지를 묻자, 존스는 이렇게 대답했다.
"나는 모른다. 무언가가 있을 수도 있고, 아무 것도 없을 수도 있다. 내 신앙은 사후 세계에 대한 신의 어떤 약속에 묶여 있지 않다."
우리는 어떻게 "전지전능하신 하느님"과 악, 고난을 조화시킬 수 있는지를 묻자 존스는 이렇게 대답했다.
"신앙의 중심에는 신비가 있다. 하느님은 우리의 지식 너머에 있는 분이지, 어떤 존재나, 본질이나, 대상이 아니다. 나는 모든 능력이 있고, 모든 것을 통제할 수 있는 전지전능한 존재를 예배하지 않는다. 그것은 로마의 법 이론과 그리스 신화가 조합된 것이다.
이에 대해 남침례회의 몰러인지 뭔지 하는 사람이 이렇게 대답했다고 하네요.
"이것은 그리스도교가 아니다. 이것은 현대의 세속적인 감성을 해치지 않기 위해 만든 새로운 종교, 새로운 신이다. 그녀는 포스트 모던 신학으로 신을 만들었고, 그것은 오직 하나 뿐인 진정한 하느님, 성서의 하느님과 닮지 않았다."
CHRISTIANHEADLINES.COM
Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection
The president of a seminary founded in 1836 on the “infallible” Word of God says in a new interview she doesn’t believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ, the power of prayer, a literal heaven, or miracles.
Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection
Michael Foust | ChristianHeadlines.com Contributor | Thursday, April 25, 2019
Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection
#New York #top headlines #Union Seminary #false teachers #Serene Jones
The president of a seminary founded in 1836 on the “infallible” Word of God says in a new interview she doesn’t believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ, the power of prayer, a literal heaven, or miracles.
Serene Jones, president of Union Theological Seminary in New York, made the comments in an interview with Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times for an article published Easter weekend. Although the author’s intent may have been to inspire readers, it also served to spotlight the leftward drift of many seminaries.
Union Theological Seminary’s founding constitution stated the seminary’s goal was to “promote” the “Kingdom of Christ.” Professors were required to affirm they believed “the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be the word of God” and the “only infallible rule of faith and practice.”
But as Jones made clear, the seminary is a very different school today.
She rejects a literal bodily resurrection of Christ.
“When you look in the Gospels, the stories are all over the place. There’s no resurrection story in Mark, just an empty tomb. Those who claim to know whether or not it happened are kidding themselves,” Jones said. “… Crucifixion is not something that God is orchestrating from upstairs. The pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts. For me, the cross is an enactment of our human hatred. But what happens on Easter is the triumph of love in the midst of suffering. Isn’t that reason for hope?”
She rejects the idea that God miraculously heals through prayer.
“I don’t believe in a God who, because of prayer, would decide to cure your mother’s cancer but not cure the mother of your nonpraying neighbor,” she said. “We can’t manipulate God like that.”
She rejects the virgin birth.
“I find the virgin birth a bizarre claim,” she said. “It has nothing to do with Jesus’ message. The virgin birth only becomes important if you have a theology in which sexuality is considered sinful. It also promotes this notion that the pure, untouched female body is the best body, and that idea has led to centuries of oppressing women.”
Asked what happens when people die, Jones responded, “I don’t know! There may be something, there may be nothing. My faith is not tied to some divine promise about the afterlife.”
Asked how we can reconcile an “omnipotent, omniscient God” with evil and suffering, Jones responded, “At the heart of faith is mystery. God is beyond our knowing, not a being or an essence or an object. But I don’t worship an all-powerful, all-controlling omnipotent, omniscient being. That is a fabrication of Roman juridical theory and Greek mythology.”
When Kristof asked her if he can be considered a Christian after not believing in a virgin birth or resurrection, Jones answered, “Well, you sound an awful lot like me, and I’m a Christian minister.”
R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said Jones rejected the “entire edifice of orthodox, biblical Christianity.”
“This is not Christianity,” Mohler wrote. “This is a new religion, a new god, formed in an image intended not to offend modern secular sensibilities. She has constructed a god from post-modern theology that in no way resembles the God of the Bible – the one true God.”
Mohler observed that Jones denied “the reality of the resurrection, the necessity of the virgin birth, the attributes of God, the power of prayer, and the existence of heaven and hell.”
“According to Jones,” Mohler wrote. “there is no cross on which Jesus died for sin, there is no Father who sent the Son to pay our ransom, there is no bodily resurrection of Christ from the dead as a sign and seal of God’s promises – indeed, she has denied everything that makes the gospel good news. She even denies that God is a ‘being.’”
Jones claims to be a Christian minister while simultaneously rejecting “every tenet of the historic Christian faith,” Mohler said.
“Why would anyone identify as a Christian minister and then deny the entire superstructure of Christian theology?” Mohler asked. “What we see here is a hope to replace biblical Christianity with a new religion without anyone noticing.”
Michael Foust is a freelance writer. Visit his blog, MichaelFoust.com.
Photo courtesy: Gryffindor/Wikimedia Commons/Creative Commons, Resized and cropped to 1200x627
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Opinion
Reverend, You Say the Virgin Birth Is ‘a Bizarre Claim’?
The president of Union Theological Seminary also discusses crucifixion, hell and a new reformation.
“Deposition From the Cross,” a detail from "The Altarpiece of the Annunciation," 1503-1507, by Pietro Perugino and Filippino Lippi.Credit...DeAgostini/Getty Images
776
By Nicholas Kristof
Opinion Columnist
April 20, 2019
This is the latest in my occasional series of conversations about Christianity. Here’s my interview, edited for space, with Serene Jones, a Protestant minister, president of Union Theological Seminary and author of a new memoir, “Call It Grace.”
KRISTOF Happy Easter, Reverend Jones! To start, do you think of Easter as a literal flesh-and-blood resurrection? I have problems with that.
JONES When you look in the Gospels, the stories are all over the place. There’s no resurrection story in Mark, just an empty tomb. Those who claim to know whether or not it happened are kidding themselves. But that empty tomb symbolizes that the ultimate love in our lives cannot be crucified and killed.
For me it’s impossible to tell the story of Easter without also telling the story of the cross. The crucifixion is a first-century lynching. It couldn’t be more pertinent to our world today.
But without a physical resurrection, isn’t there a risk that we are left with just the crucifixion?
Crucifixion is not something that God is orchestrating from upstairs. The pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts. For me, the cross is an enactment of our human hatred. But what happens on Easter is the triumph of love in the midst of suffering. Isn’t that reason for hope?
You alluded to child abuse. So how do we reconcile an omnipotent, omniscient God with evil and suffering?
At the heart of faith is mystery. God is beyond our knowing, not a being or an essence or an object. But I don’t worship an all-powerful, all-controlling omnipotent, omniscient being. That is a fabrication of Roman juridical theory and Greek mythology. That’s not the God of Easter. The God of Easter is vulnerable and is connected to the world in profound ways that don’t involve manipulating the world but constantly inviting us into love, justice, mercy.
Isn’t a Christianity without a physical resurrection less powerful and awesome? When the message is about love, that’s less religion, more philosophy.
For me, the message of Easter is that love is stronger than life or death. That’s a much more awesome claim than that they put Jesus in the tomb and three days later he wasn’t there. For Christians for whom the physical resurrection becomes a sort of obsession, that seems to me to be a pretty wobbly faith. What if tomorrow someone found the body of Jesus still in the tomb? Would that then mean that Christianity was a lie? No, faith is stronger than that.
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What about other miracles of the New Testament? Say, the virgin birth?
I find the virgin birth a bizarre claim. It has nothing to do with Jesus’ message. The virgin birth only becomes important if you have a theology in which sexuality is considered sinful. It also promotes this notion that the pure, untouched female body is the best body, and that idea has led to centuries of oppressing women.
Prayer is efficacious in the sense of making us feel better, but do you believe it is efficacious in curing cancer?
I don’t believe in a God who, because of prayer, would decide to cure your mother’s cancer but not cure the mother of your nonpraying neighbor. We can’t manipulate God like that.
What happens when we die?
I don’t know! There may be something, there may be nothing. My faith is not tied to some divine promise about the afterlife. People who behave well in this life only to achieve an afterlife, that’s a faith driven by a selfish motive: “I’m going to be good so God would reward me with a stick of candy called heaven?” For me, living a life of love is driven by the simple fact that love is true. And I’m absolutely certain that when we die, there is not a group of designated bad people sent to burn in hell. That does not exist. But hell has a symbolic reality: When we reject love, we create hell, and hell is what we see around us in this world today in so many forms.
I’ve asked this of other interviewees in this religion series: For someone like myself who is drawn to Jesus’ teaching but doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the physical resurrection, what am I? Am I a Christian?
Well, you sound an awful lot like me, and I’m a Christian minister.
I often feel like we are in the middle of another reformation in a 500-year cycle. John Calvin and Martin Luther had no idea they were in the middle of a reformation, but they knew that church structures were breaking down, new forms of communication were emerging, new scientific discoveries were being made, new kinds of authorities and states and economic systems arising — all like this moment in time. This creates a spiritual crisis and a spiritual flexibility.
Christianity is at something of a turning point, but I think that this questioning and this reaching is even bigger than Christianity. It reaches into many religious traditions. This wrestling with climate change, and wrestling with the levels of violence in our world, wrestling with authoritarianism and the intractable character of gender oppression — it’s forcing communities within all religions to say, “Something is horribly wrong here.” It’s a spiritual crisis. Many nonreligious people feel it, too. We need a new way entirely to think about what it means to be a human being and what the purpose of our lives is. For me, this moment feels apocalyptic, as if something new is struggling to be born.
Like 2,000 years ago?
Yes. Something was struggling to be born on that first Easter. It burst forth in ways that changed the world forever. Today I feel that spiritual ground around us shaking again. The structures of religion as we know it have come up bankrupt and are collapsing. What will emerge? That is for our children and our children’s children to envision and build.
Related
The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.
Nicholas Kristof has been a columnist for The Times since 2001. He has won two Pulitzer Prizes, for his coverage of China and of the genocide in Darfur. You can sign up for his free, twice-weekly email newsletter and follow him on Instagram. @NickKristof • Facebook
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CF commented April 21, 2019
C
CF
Massachusetts
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
This column is a nice Easter gift to this former Catholic.
I will not speak for all of Catholicism, but my Catholic school teachings were heavy on sex being a dirty act. Mary was pure. Period. Whether Mary had other children was never discussed. Although the bible talks about siblings of Jesus, it appears many Catholics think they weren't biological children of Mary. I took away one message: sex is dirty.
My Catholic school teachings were also heavily focused on the crucifixion, particularly that the whole thing was somehow my fault for being a sinful person. We had these twelve 'stations of the cross' around the perimeter of my church, with little booklets at the ready so we could read along with the specifics of the agony at every station. Doing the 'stations of the cross' were occasionally imposed as penance after Confession. I once asked my Greek Orthodox husband if he had these 'stations of the cross' in his church (where he had been an altar boy, so it seems reasonable that he would know) and he didn't know what I was talking about.
It lifts my heart to hear a Christian minister call the virgin birth a "bizarre claim" and who has the courage to say that the "pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts."
I'm no longer religious, but I might still be going to church if I had grown up with common-sense Christianity like this.
1 Reply395 RecommendShareFlag
John commented April 21, 2019
J
John
Milwaukee
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Jesus, the Christ, that I now believe in is for us all (Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, and atheists). The first few paragraphs of John’s Gospel speaks of Christ coming into the world as the Word made flesh. Words are metaphor for thought. The words are God’s thoughts for us; and his flesh embody God putting those words into action.
What are those thoughts then? Love your neighbor (the parable of the Good Samaritan), God’s love is endless (the parable of prodigal son), forgive again and again (defending the woman at the well saying “let him without sin cast the first stone, and directives to forgive 7 times 70 times….), the Beatitudes, directions to feed the hungry, welcome the stranger, cloth the naked, love your enemies,.and on.... Such radical thoughts for human kind! (And not really rational thoughts at all for tribal societies—as demonstrated even today by our conduct toward each other).
And his actions? Healing, accompanying the “least” in society, weeping for others, and ultimately being abandoned and slayed upon a tree—yet forgiving through it all (“forgive them for they do not know what they do”).
These radical thoughts (expressed in Words) and actions (expressed in human flesh) – divine and transcendent thoughts and actions-- struck a cord in hearts then and now -- 2000 years later-- as a desire for and guide to the transcendent life.
In this holiday period, a Happy Easter and Passover to all.
3 Replies194 RecommendShareFlag
Nat Irvin commented April 21, 2019
N
Nat Irvin
Louisville
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As a preacher’s kid, who grew up in the black southern baptist church and surrounding traditions, (age 67) hearing the words of Serene Jones would have caused our church folks to lose their minds! Jones was surely going to hell and I would not be allowed to be in her company; yet, these same folks loved me and nurtured my curiosity into later choosing to major in philosophy in college, to challenge my most fundamental beliefs about God, heaven and hell, and the veracity of the virgin birth. While I suspect that the women who patted their feet on wooden floors while the deacon’s prayed over communion may have had their own doubts about the whole Easter story, what they did believe and practiced was that I should love others as Christ loved me. From them, as well as my parents, I escaped with the power to love others and not hate and to forgive as I wish to be forgiven. Whether they would really send Serene Jones to hell on Easter, I doubt it; more likely they’d invite her in for fried chicken, green beans ham, hot rolls, and sweet tea.
1 Reply163 RecommendShareFlag
manfred marcus commented April 21, 2019
M
manfred marcus
Bolivia
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As an agnostic, I find Serene Jones' thoughts refreshing. That a god was created according to human specifications is in and by itself suspicious. Somebody said that heaven and hell are within us, and it's up to us to show who we are. We seek justice and peace in this world but realize how distant that is. Quite frankly, whether there is a god or not is not for us to say, we are just no smart enough to know.
2 Replies106 RecommendShareFlag
CoquiCoqui commented April 21, 2019
C
CoquiCoqui
PR
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
I found my beliefs explained here as never before I had. So maybe I am a Christian after all. Or maybe I am a Buddhist. I feel that the supernatural thing is that I am a human being with a conscience of my existence in this world, that my need to be good arises only from the fact that I need to love. "For me, living a life of love is driven by the simple fact that love is true."
It is good to see that after all I am not a bad person due to the fact that I don't believe in Christian mythology, as I was forced to think when I was growing up. If so called Christian families knew the damage they do to their children when they are inquisitive and doubtful of religious beliefs. The menace of hell lasts for a long time, until you understand that the physical hell is an imposible thing, just as is heaven. I only wish that if there is an afterlife I do not go to the place my mother described as heaven. Non edible fruits, made of precious stones, are not my favorite food, and a crystal sea is not a place in which I want to spend the longest vacation of my existence.
2 Replies89 RecommendShareFlag
Gary Pippenger commented April 21, 2019
G
Gary Pippenger
St Charles, MO
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
If only Christianity as practiced remotely resembled what Jesus seemed most concerned about! Why didn't Jesus write anything to be left for his followers? The biblical accounts indicate he was literate and could argue theology at the temple. Maniacal Saul of Tarsus came along and borrowed all kinds of ideas and concepts from the prevailing religions and philosophies of the time as well as ancient ones. We really have "Paulianity," not Christianity. The religion has become very complex--mostly to cover the irrational and unbelievable aspects--and that led to vulnerability to politics and power. It has happened to the other religions as well. Just in the last 12 hours, bombings of Christians in Sri Lanka by "radical Buddhists" is suspected! I don't think fundamentalist and Evangelical Christians can explain why Jesus left no writings of his own, given that those groups obsess about the Literal and Inerrant truth of the writings in the Bible. No, the "gospels" are not actual, factual reports written by literate people within weeks of the crucifixion: they appeared 30--90 years after Jesus life, and even with printing and video technology today, accounts that old would be highly skewed and fictionalized. We are constantly seeing revised, reinterpreted accounts of events in the 20th century. So it is the nature of religion to be legends, myth, and lore. Wringing any true direction and comfort from this material is getting more and more difficult.
8 Replies82 RecommendShareFlag
Khalid Rehman commented April 21, 2019
K
Khalid Rehman
Manhattan
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As an immigrant, an American of Muslim faith and an Interfaith activist, I have been reading many articles during this Easter / Passover week. As a physician and a man of science, I do believe in a much higher power that has created this immense universe. Immaculate conception is not a challenge for that power (God or whatever name we give) who created the universe from nothing. Similarly, death and resurrection are not difficult for the Divine. As a Muslim, I belive in Prophet Isa (Jesus) and his message of love, care and respect of others. I agree with Rev. Jones that we must not act only to please God), but being good to our fellow human beings is a reward in itself. Prayers are for self reflection and self improvement. God is too big to be waiting for my few words of praise for him.
5 Replies132 RecommendShareFlag
Wordsworth from Wadsworth commented April 21, 2019
W
Wordsworth from Wadsworth
Mesa, Arizona
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
The immaculate conception and virgin birth are metaphors. They signify the opening of the human heart.
Christ died to his human self and was resurrected in spirit, to a new ideal of compassion, love and unity.
It a metaphor, and the ideal of Christians.
We just don't know what happened. Scientifically it could not have happened that way. In addition, the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas unearthed in 1945 says Jesus ate a piece of fish, and walked through a wall. If at all, perhaps his body was not there as we conceive it. Then there was the road to Emmaus incident. They did not recognize the risen Jesus, he broke bread with them, they recognized him, and he disappeared. It was almost as if the faithful were projecting the "Twilight Zone" onto the image of Jesus.
But we know basically what Jesus said. The point is to die to your ego, and to be reborn with love and compassion as much as possible. Being born again does not mean declaiming about the life of Jesus, and your personal relationship with a being who has as much empirical proof as the Easter Bunny.
Belief in supernatural feats is not necessary. Making God visible by living as Jesus is louder than words. Talk is cheap. Christian compassion on a quotidian basis is difficult for all of us flawed humans.
5 Replies78 RecommendShareFlag
pgd commented April 21, 2019
P
pgd
thailand
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
I am surprised that so many comments here seem to confuse theology and religion . Theology is the study of religions and has become, quite fortunately, a secular discipline which allows believers and non believers alike to investigate all the creeds, myths and symbols that are the foundation of faith - the basis for all religions . As I read this article, it seems to me that what Reverend Jones is saying is that you can be a Christian and question some of the tenets of Christianity (particularly Catholicism) many of which were developed a century or more after the death of the historical Jesus and his apostle .
Having faith does not prohibit critical thought . "Blind" faith leads to stupidity or blatant hypocrisy . I will always remember Senator Marco Rubio who, upon being asked if he believed that Earth was really created 4500 years ago, felt compelled to appease his constituents by answering "I don't know, I am not a scientist" .
Conversely, I had a philosophy professor who happened to be a Jesuit priest specializing in Existentialism . He taught us about Sartre and Kirkegaard and never failed to extend to both the same respect .
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Julie commented April 21, 2019
J
Julie
Louisvillle, KY
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Conservative evangelicals and liberal theologians such as Serene Jones have one thing in common. They both reduce God to a manageable human who conforms to the expectations of our own little world view. The evangelical God is often vain, cruel and unjust like many of our own leaders; our President for example. Jones' God is a vulnerable, rather ineffectual God who wrings His (Her) hands over evil and, like us, hopes for the best. Any God worthy of our faith will be above our petty expectations. Science offers insights into nature, but this insight reinforces, rather than dimishes, our sense of the magnitude of God's creation. Miracles are not an impediment to modern faith; they are a prerequisite. The resurrection is no stumbling block but a launching pad to the understanding of our relationship to God and reality.
3 Replies80 RecommendShareFlag
David commented April 21, 2019
D
David
Virginia
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Religion, like philosophy, should be allowed to adapt to our changing understanding of the world. Just as Stoicism offers a lot but shouldn't require us to accept Chrysippus's metaphysics, religion should be allowed to evolve. The virgin birth isn't something we should be hang our hats on. Sure, the hint that sex is dirty is there if someone wants to play it up, but that's probably not what Matthew was going for. In myth-world, a great person needs a great lineage. That's why Herakles' father is Zeus and divine ancestry comes to be attributed to many historical Greeks. The virgin birth story
exists because the Septuagint's use of the word parthenos offered Mathew to opportunity to introduce that story; and, as divine parentage goes, for obvious reasons, Zeus wasn't an option.
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