THE COMING INTERSPIRITUAL AGE, Kurt Johnson
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RELIGION
Evolution And The Coming Interspiritual Age: A Conversation With Kurt Johnson
By David Sloan Wilson
4 Comments
Kurt Johnson is a rare specimen. He is an evolutionary biologist who specializes in the taxonomy of butterflies and has named hundreds of species. He was also a Christian monk and is currently a leader among an international movement called Interspirituality, as he recounts in his book titled The Coming Interspiritual Age. I had the pleasure of working with Kurt over a period of two days at an event that I organized with two pastors, Wilfredo Baez and Arthur Suggs, in my hometown of Binghamton New York. The event was sponsored by a project that I direct called the Binghamton Religion and Spirituality Project, which seeks to understand the nature of religion and spirituality in the context of everyday life. Tired but with a feeling of accomplishment, we recorded our interview at the end of the second day.Our interview explores Kurt’s personal journey and how all of the world’s religious traditions converge on a form of spirituality that is consistent with methodological naturalism.
DSW: Welcome, Kurt Johnson.
KJ: Thank you.
DSW: You are someone who has double credentials. First as an evolutionary biologist. Second as a contemplative, a word that we have been using over the past two days. You’ve been developing these credentials in parallel, from the very beginning it seems. As you were getting your Ph.D. in evolutionary biology, you were also a Christian monk as I understand it. I wonder if you could tell us your personal story and then we can begin to discuss what this represents in terms of a union of evolutionary science and this concept called interspirituality.
KJ: I think it is probably helpful for the introduction to see three tracks, so we don’t get stuck in a dichotomy between an extremely subjective experience, which is what most people would take a contemplative life to be, and a very disciplined and robust scientific life, knowing everything that requires. The third track is understanding what I have done in comparative religion. I went into the monastic life initially after my first Masters degree and before my second Masters degree and PhD.
DSW: What was your first Masters degree?
KJ: It was also in biology, from Iowa, after undergraduate school in Wisconsin and before I got my Doctorate at the City University Graduate Center’s program with the American Museum of Natural History. The reason [I went into the monastic life] was that I was deeply mining experience from the subjective lens and what was then impacting me as a consciousness and a heart and as a person of ethics, ideals, hopes—everything like that. I was a creature of the 1960’s, of course—that was a player. So I was being informed very much by that type of knowing, while simultaneously coming out of an academic background (my father was a division head in geography at the University of Wisconsin) that understood very rigorously what science and academic inquiry were and what objective knowing was about. I think I was an innocent victim of feeling deeply informed by both of those ways of knowing, in a way that I felt very compelled to simultaneously follow both tracks. I had also had minors in the humanities and a lot of opportunities in music, so I had an interesting career in the arts that I could have followed if I didn’t have to arbitrarily choose science…
DSW: Was the arts and spiritual side in your family, or was your family background mostly the science side?
KJ: I think it was mostly the science side, but I grew up in the Lakota country in western Nebraska, south of the native lands of the Lakota, which are now a big part of my shamanic and indigenous connections. So unknowingly there was an aesthetic part to my connection to nature that looked through the dual lens–the lens of the beauty of nature and the lens of the scientific knowing of how it works and all the details of science. I think I was naturally following the call to existentially being there, particularly in the 60’s, in the middle of the Vietnam war, in the middle of everything that was erupting with regard to psychodelic knowing and everything else that was going on then. I was a very high energy, super wired, overly intelligent, overly sensitive combination. I was radically, aggressively following those paths of knowing. So I took the opportunities at immersion in both.
DSW: What was your entry into the monastic tradition?
KJ: To be honest, I had gone through a very difficult time in my existential life. By that I mean in knowing what it means to be here, as a person, what made it satisfactory to live and not commit suicide. To be honest, if you were very conflicted, highly intelligent, highly sensitive person, I think I walked that line very finely.
DSW: So you had suicidal thoughts?
KJ: I went through that entire thing, absolutely. What was the predicament of being here, when you felt so much and saw so much and some of that was so horrendous. When I was in graduate school in my first Masters program I actually had a role model, a professor who had a monastic connection. I’ll be honest that I saw his stability and his way of being…there was something that he knew about reality that I thought—whatever that is, that’s something I’m interested in, because it’s not all over the place. It’s grounded, it’s clear, it’s loving, it’s compassionate, it’s highly knowledgeable–it’s all those things. I got very curious whether the order and sanity of a monastic life really had something to contribute to the path I was following, just as an existential person. I had to do novitiate first and then pursue my doctoral work after I got my minor seminary done.
DSW: So you had to take time out from the academic world.
KJ: I had to take at least two or three years before I was back in a doctorate program. By that time I was wearing a collar [laughs]—maybe pretending to be a Teilhard de Chardin.
DSW: So this was a Christian idiom, right? How did encountering the Christian idiom interact with the scientific worldview?
KJ: I think maybe innocently and naively I was a little bit of a Teilhard [de Chardin] mimic.
DSW: OK, he managed! [Chardin was a Jesuit priest and paleontologist who wrote The Phenomenon of Man. I discuss his work in relation to modern evolutionary theory in my book The Neighborhood Project this radio interview]
KJ: I suppose in a naïve kind of idealistic way I felt caught between those worlds.
DSW: Did you actually read Teilhard de Chardin?
KJ: Absolutely!
DSW: Ok, so you had him as a guidepost.
KJ: Yes, I had read him. I had never met him, obviously, but I had read him. The other thing about me was that I was not necessarily a religious person. Today when we understand the phrase “spiritual but not religious”, I was really one of those people that…I was at home in the monastic life, but I might not necessarily have been at home in the parochial clergy. One of those is an atmosphere for searching and inquiring, while the other one is being maybe more a servant of a creator, or a dogma, or a form. There is a big difference. I was interested in consciousness.
DSW: So the monastic training was less dogmatic than just becoming a churchgoer?
KJ: Absolutely. The people in the order that I was in were studying everything from Buddhism, to Vedanta [“Hinduism” with its many mystic forms] to occultism.
DSW: But it was a Christian order?
KJ: Yes it was, and it was at the time of [Thomas] Merton, who was making his crossover into Buddhism. There were other people at that time who were starting to make some crossovers. Certainly many in the order I was in–and it was an Episcopalian order, which made it even more liberal than if it had been a Roman Catholic order–they were doing radical inquiry into reality, in a way. What are the experiences we can have? What do they mean? When are they crazy and psychotic and when are they real? I was in a sense religion-neutral. I was doing what monastics do and not, as we used to say, playing church. I didn’t have any interest in playing church. We would tend to distinguish between those who were on a path of inquiry at the deepest parts of what was available in spirituality and just playing church. That would have never interested me.
DSW: Did you get the grounding and stability that you were seeking?
KJ: Absolutely. Absolutely. People who knew me when I went into novitiate, where I was all over the place—overly brilliant, overly sensitive, wired—I came out of there solid as a rock. I’ll be honest—that was because of silence, and the routine, and the stability of that life style. That grounded me very quickly. There was a sanity to it that grounded me.
DSW: Did you take that out of the monastery?
KJ: For sure. People who knew me before and after didn’t really think I was the same person, because I was so stable. A lot of the things that I did when I was in that life, especially when I was overseas, they were very high stress situations in Africa and other places, where we did certain work. I went from being a vulnerable person to being a very stable person. By chance then, the people at the American Museum of Natural History knew of me—I had published a lot even by my Masters degree. I had quite a bibliography. Once they knew that I was nearby and available, and I also had an expertise, they invited me into a research association there. I just had to get permission from my religious order, to come and go.
DSW: Let’s provide some background—your Masters work was in entomology, systematics…
KJ: Yes. My doctorate was in four areas. You had to pick four areas of competency. For me it was evolution, ecology, systematics, and comparative biology. I probably have 300 juried publications in journals, 7 technical monographs, so that environment was very much publish or perish. I was sometimes publishing 30 or 40 articles a year, because I was really grinding it out. But I was also blessed, to be honest, that most of the areas that I specialized–because my lab tool was butterflies–I ended up working in areas of the world where things had no names. I think I worked over the taxonomy of about 2000 species and maybe 200 genera, naming hundreds of new things, especially from poorly known areas of the world.
DSW: So you were an alpha taxonomist, as they put it?
KJ: That’s it. You know the drill. I was an alpha taxonomist, actually right on the cusp of when Cladistics and Vicariance Biogeography was being born. On my doctoral committee my professors were the people who were germinal in all that—Niles Eldredge, Donn Rosen, Gary Nelson, Norman Platnick, Toby Schuh. It was really an honor to study with them.
DSW: We’re getting your academic pedigree down.
KJ: The whole crew at the American Museum of Natural History. I was actually the first doctorate student in their entomology program. I was like the guinea pig. They had invited me there as a research associate. They realized that I had an unfinished doctorate so they said “Do you want to be our first doctoral student?”
DSW: Let’s take a little side trip. Vladimir Nabokov. Let’s spend a few minutes on that because you are quite well known for your book Nabokov’s Blues. What is the Nabokov connection? [Editor’s note: Nabokov was an accomplished butterfly taxonomist in addition to a novelist]
KJ: Right. This is all very innocent but it’s amazing how it came about. I have Nabokov’s Blues and now I have a book coming out in 2015 from Yale University Press called Fine Lines: Nabokov’s Scientific Art, which is really a capstone book on his whole scientific career. Here’s how it came about. It’s so innocent it’s almost funny. In my office at the American Museum of Natural History was Nabokov’s collection, just by chance. In the biodiversity crisis era, when we were looking for hot spots and trying to understand what was the actual diversity of certain lineages, say in South America and the Andes and so on, I was naïve enough to pick Nabokov’s blues [a subfamily of butterflies] as a group that I thought was small enough to be finish-able. In other words, one could cladistically go to the end of that phylogenetic tree, to include everything and it wouldn’t be so damn big to be totally unruly. I think we started with maybe 12 or 13 species in his group and by the time we were done we had over 100. So, what happened was that absolutely innocently picking it as a group that we thought we could do the work—and we did. However, we also ended up discovering, again by chance, that all of the work that he had done.—which has fallen into disrepute– was actually correct, because he had used a phylogenetic method, the modern paradigm, before its time. So, we ended up writing the papers, and then the book, reviving the correctness of his taxonomies. They had been incorrectly abandoned by the so-called “numerical taxonomists” of the 60’s—who relied on simple resemblance, not a phylogenetic method. It was later, in 2011, that DNA analysis (thanks to the Harvard DNA lab) showed his evolutionary and biogeographic predictions were also correct, which is the subject of the new book. [Editor’s note: Johnson recounted his work on Nabokov at length and this part of the interview will be published separately. We then turned to interspirituality].
DSW: Let’s get to the main event of this interview, which is the entire concept of spirituality and how all of its manifestations can be reconciled with scientific understanding. A little background: Why are you here? Why am I interviewing you face to face? Because you came for a two-day event in the little city of Binghamton New York, called “The Coming Interspiritual Age”, the title of your book. That meeting was not at Binghamton University but rather the First Congregational Church. The audience was not professors and students. It was members of the community, although it did include some university representatives. For me this makes it especially poignant and interesting. The concept of the coming interspiritual age and the fact that such a thing could be fully consistent with what I like to call methodological naturalism, is big news. Bigger news than anything involving Nabokov. Let’s get right to that. What is the coming interspiritual age, and how is it possible for something that sounds so religious to be—I want to say 100% compatible with methodological naturalism.
KJ: Let’s see if we can get at it this way. A discussion began after—it had been going a long time but amped up after– Vatican II, about the relationships of all the world’s religions in their narratives and also their experiential track, which in a sense was an evolutionary tree of nested sets of human subjective experience, which had gotten translated into religious narrative about what the contemplative or deeper inquiry experiences in spirituality are. The comparative religion theologians who were talking in that period were also talking with the contemplatives across all the world’s traditions. What do you call them? Saints, gurus—all those people who go really deep into that type of inquiry–what might be called mystical or whatever. As the world went cosmopolitan, the religions started to talk with each other at this experiential level. There was a discovery that the existential experience that everyone had in contemplative inquiry, like myself as a monk, or somebody as a Tibetan lama, or as a Hindu guru, or as a Sufi mystic or whatever it might be– the resulting experience was that everything is profoundly interconnected and that nothing is separate. What happened, then, was a discovery that what all religions had in common would allow a global universal spirituality to arise, which could agree about basic understandings of how humanity had experienced ultimate reality and also what type of moral and ethical behavior would result from those types of realizations. The simplest one would be that if everybody starts to figure out that the ultimate mystical experience is that everything is interconnected and nothing is separate, it has the immediate implication of how parts of that system treat each other. It has an ethical and values-related result, which predicts that there is a possibility for religion not to be part of the ongoing problem in the world–which has been fighting over ideas and theology and eschatologies and end-time scenarios–and actually making those narratives secondary to the depth of moral understanding that comes from inner inquiry. Even if you are a humanist or an atheist or a non-theist, whatever it might be, you come to this understanding that is reflected in the new physics and in quantum theory–everything that has to do with profound interconnectedness. This implies a way that we need to be with each other that has very clear ethical and moral implications.
DSW: So science comes to its own conclusion about everything being interconnected.
KJ: Right. The religions, then, end up where they are able to meet in understanding that the entire tree of experiences has actually been one existential phenomenon from which you draw the same conclusion, which is a behavioral conclusion about the kind of civilization that’s predicated on not only the cosmological notion of how things are interconnected, but the experiential report—because that’s different than a notion—the experiential report that that’s how things are put together.
DSW: Is this what you call second tier consciousness?
KJ: Yes, it is what many writers today call second tier consciousness. In other words, there has been an evolution out of what they call the old first-tier consciousness which has everything in boxes. Islam, Judaism, Christianity—all this at loggerheads. This theology, that theology. This doctrine, that doctrine. This creed, that creed. Again reflecting argument, conflict, war, everything imaginable. Because identity is tied up in a certain box, which then competes and fights with other boxes.
DSW: You just described first-tier consciousness. I want to assert, and have you agree, that it extends into the secular realm as well. All of the national identities and conflicts engendered. That’s also a form of first-tier consciousness. So first tier consciousness is not restricted to religion. It includes religion plus…
KJ: …Ethnic identifies, sexual identities, gender identities, you name it. Anything that puts you in a box and sets you off against other boxes. First-tier consciousness needs to be identified with a box and will defend the box. What happens with the evolution of second-tier consciousness–which involves the heart, this deeper perception of interconnectedness and also involves the pragmatics of a global civilization–is that you suddenly realize: Oh my Gosh, the way that we get to mutuality and caring and understanding is that all forms serve us but we don’t need to be bound by any particular form. You start to see that the boundaries falling away are not negative. They are positive and that you’re actually happier and freer and in more harmony with others when there is no more of this conflict and warring, silo to silo. It simply drops away in the sense of how a person wants to identify themselves and therefore they don’t have anything to protect any more. So that just happens out of the way things are comprehended. Does that make sense?
DSW: That makes sense to me! [laughs] Could I contrast it with the New Atheism? We talked about this yesterday. I think it’s so interesting because there is a whole narrative about science and religion being irreconcilable. Steven Jay Gould referred to it as separate magisteria. Interspirituality is trending in a different direction. I want to have you speak on that topic, if you would.
KJ: Basically, it’s trending in a different direction because of what happens experientially. What allows this to happen is real people stepping up in real time. By that I mean contemplative leaders across the traditions, who because they are contemplative leaders are the writers of the books that are revered, the speakers that are revered, the leaders that are revered–when they start to announce that the boundaries falling away is what brings together a new possibility of this type of unanimity and unity and profound interconnectedness, experientially it brings the message that the need to defend these boundaries is no longer really a primary concern. What’s interesting is that there is an adaptive significance to that type of mutuality serving a global community, as opposed to the conflict war-based model, which has a very different result. If you start looking at it as being attractive to people as an idea—when you have that adaptive positive–that is steering civilization in a very different direction than the other model. It really steps into naturally being a choice. The way that we have put this in the evolutionary context is that interspirituality is the inherent evolutionary response of the religions to globalization and multiculturalism. In other words, the response that religion could have to become part of the solution to a global civilization that’s healthy and works, rather than part of the problem that it has always been based on conflicts about ideas and creeds and dogmas. Religion itself would evolve to this understanding that back-burners theology and ideas, back-burners the mental parsing out process, and makes central the matters of the ethical teachings, the idealistic teachings, and the things that come from love, kindness, compassion, mutuality, and interconnectedness. This is the vector of its understanding. It has inherently evolved in a way that’s positive toward the globalization process rather than remaining a negative force. This is the way we frame it when we challenge people—religion can either step up to that inherent evolutionary path to meet globalization in a positive way, or if it doesn’t, as Ken Wilber said, it will forfeit the claim that it has something to add to international and global phenomenon. Everything that we say about all the bad things that religion has done in the name of god –all of that is true. But there is a unique element in the spirituality of the world’s religions, in the sense of its ethics and ideals and basic teachings, that speaks profoundly to the transformation of will—the positive transformation of behavior. At that level, it can still claim to be part of a conveyer belt process to a global civilization that would be healthy.
DSW: What is the role of counterfactual belief? Why is it that religions of the past have included counterfactual beliefs and how is it possible for religion and spirituality of the future to avoid counterfactual beliefs?
KJ. I think the answer to that is simple in the sense of the way interspirituality looks at this. The original lens of religion is what we call the magic-mythic lens. It was so subjective that it wasn’t interested in the disciplining of subjective experience in the way that objective knowing —the type of thing that science does. Subjective experience that wasn’t meeting any test, in the sense of its usefulness or anything like that. Now there is a distinction between the magic-mythic and rational and the integral. We say that the way forward is a balance of these skills. We look at humanity and we say, we’ve got subjective skills and we’ve got objective skills. The subjective skill area is murky, there’s no doubt about it. You could actually say that the objective area is murky when you look at it methodologically and a lot of other ways. But we need a balanced approach to who we are.
DSW: This is a nod to evolutionary psychology, a topic that This View of Life has paid a great deal of attention to. One thing you said during our sessions today, which I want to make sure is captured in this interview, is that the mythic-magic view is deeply embedded in our species and we’ll never get rid of it. Just go to a movie and you will see it. It’s part of human nature to be storytellers and to operate in magic-mythic mode—to offer that deep, gut level, kind of inspiration. Therefore this is not something that we want to or can eliminate. We need to somehow harness it, but also to partition it in a way that we can also operate in rational scientific mode. Maybe you could expand upon that.
KJ: I think you said it really well. The sense of the magic-mythic, the heroic, what moves you when you look at the art. That sense of who we are is so important to how humanity can advance to solve the world’s problems and go wherever its destiny may be as an amazing creative and skillful species. It’s not something to be discarded, but to be channeled in a way that truly serves the holistic identity of who we really are–that tells the stories that allow us to be more creative, to actually meet the world’s problems in creative ways and to meet them together. So, for instance, the archetype of the warrior gets transformed from the warrior who is knocking off heads to the warrior that wants to understand cancer. That would be the modern archetype of the warrior.
DSW: I think I’d like to end with the fact that we’ve spent the last two days together–were actually brought together–in a venue that took place in a church, the First Congregational Church. As we were reminded by the Pastor, Art Suggs, the First Congregational Church has led the way in progressive movements. It was among the first to ordain a black pastor, a woman pastor, a gay pastor—decades before the rest of society–so that’s the benign side of religion. And the audience for the event that we staged was not professors. It included a few professors and some students, but for the most part it was members of the community, who not only resonated to the message but had their own profound stories to tell. So interspirituality is not something that is known only among an elite and is difficult to translate. That is very optimistic. This is not just some academic exercise but is something that can actually thrive and compete in the Darwinian struggle of ideas. [pause] Do I have the last word?
KJ: You may have the last word. I think you’re absolutely right. The audience that was here this weekend represents the direction that the human heart wants to see at the grassroots level. It wants to move away from what’s chronically led to competition and conflict and war and those negative sides of the evolutionary pathway. It wants to see us get to a type of altruism and mutuality and interconnectedness where there is another way that we do things that is self-evident by who we are now as a more advanced hominid. That we become a hominid that gets past the tribe and the clan and all of these things that are so deeply embedded in us. Interspirituality is trans-ethnic, trans-national, trans-religious. It’s trans- all of those boundaries. If that appeals to the grassroots human heart, that gets a big yes. That even has political implications, relative to how it drives the future of the decisions that societies make. Actually that is how we phrased the last paragraph of The Coming Interspiritual Age— we are still here, still able to make those critical ongoing decisions. David, I want to thank you, and your work, for being such a huge part of that view of a possible optimistic future.
DSW: So you get the last word [laughs]. Thank you, Kurt.
KJ: Thank you!
Published On: May 20, 2015
David Sloan Wilson
David Sloan Wilson is president of Prosocial World and SUNY Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Biology and Anthropology at Binghamton University. He applies evolutionary theory to all aspects of humanity in addition to the rest of life, through Prosocial World and in his own research and writing. A complete archive of his work is available at www.David SloanWilson.world. His most recent books include his first novel, Atlas Hugged: The Autobiography of John Galt III, and a memoir, A Life Informed by Evolution.
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The Coming Interspiritual Age Paperback – January 8, 2013
by Kurt Johnson (Author), David Robert Ord (Author)
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This book details the vision of interspirituality within a comprehensive and powerful synthesis of world religions and spirituality, the discoveries of modern science, and the developmental and evolutionary view of history. It is the first book to review and predict the ongoing history of world religions and spirituality in the context of developmental history, the evolutionary consciousness movement, and current scientific understandings of anthropology, human cognitive development, brain/mind and scientific consciousness studies.
This book addresses Brother WayneTeasdale’s vision of “The Interspiritual Age,” a vision that parallels the equally well-known and publicized visions of the world’s developmental and evolutionary consciousness movements (known therein as coming “Integral Age” or “Age of Evolutionary Consciousness”) and the international humanist movement (known therein as the emerging “international Ethical Manifold”). As such The Coming Interspiritual Age is the first synthesis of interfaith and interspirituality with the popular writings of integral leaders Ken Wilber and Don Beck.
The book includes provocative sections regarding the inherent unity within the world’s religious and spiritual understanding (especially their shared mystical understandings), the relationship of these and modern scientific studies of consciousness and brain/mind, the developmental and evolutionary views of history, the inevitable ongoing processes of world globalization and multiculturalism, the emergent understanding of the Divine Feminine, the nature of spiritual experience and the reputed spirit realms, and the various predictions around and surrounding the year 2012. The book concludes with extensive “how-to” sections regarding the development and practice of interspirituality as it can happen both within the world’s current religious traditions as well as in new, creative and entrepreneurial settings worldwide.
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"A landmark contribution" -- The Interfaith Observer / "A must read...at the cutting edge of spirituality"-- Kosmos
Fr. Thomas Keating: I'm very glad this wonderful book continues to draw praise and interest. I support and recommend it.
"Stunning, and I might say, coming at us like a freight train, or a rising sun"-- Shared Purpose
The Parliament of the World's Religions-- "... widely endorsed... Advancing the work of Bro. Wayne Teasdale, The Coming Interspiritual Age explores themes of oneness, unity, and diversity on a world-wide scale... Forecasting a global shift toward spiritual consciousness..., the authors unwrap an evolving makeup of religious communities to showcase how new forms of personal identity and scientific contexts in religion are creating a collective interspirituality."
Ken Wilber-- "If you're not sure what all this means-- and even if you are-- get this visionary book and find out what all the excitement and enthusiasm is about. It might change your world." [bookcover]
From the Back Cover
Richard Rohr-- "I really cannot exaggerate the value and importance of this book. This is where we are going."
Matthew Fox-- "This ambitious book joins the multiple efforts at interspirituality in our time...to spawn something more resembling a full-hearted life... I welcome it!"
Pir Zia Inayat-Khan-- "Bro. Wayne Teasdale's momentous legacy of mystical ecumenism is powerfully amplified and elaborated on in this sprawling work of historical, scientific, and spiritual synthesis."
Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee-- "This panoramic book helps us to understand why Interspirituality is so central to our shared destiny".
Andrew Harvey-- "Profound heart and deep intellect inform every page of this rich and beautiful book".
Neil Douglas-Klotz-- "Good News for Postmodern Humanity!... a compelling and comprehensive peek towards a positive future."
Lama Surya Das-- "...Compelling and accessible...a tremendous contribution to the emerging field of global spirituality and the evolution of enlightened wisdom.... It documents the trend toward a global unity consciousness and makes crystal clear the gifts the Great Wisdom Traditions can bring to this global discussion".
Rev. Canon Charles P. Gibbs, United Religions Initiative-- "...here is a book of authentic hope... a book with the potential to change your life, to change our lives, and with them the future of humanity."
Yasuhiko Genku Kimura, Vision in Action-- "...a magnificent post-modern integral vision, heralding a new kind of spirituality."
Nancy Roof, Kosmos-- "...If you want to keep abreast of the leading edge of spiritiality, this book is a must read."
Paul Chaffee, The Interfaith Observer-- "The Coming Interspiritual Age is a hugely ambitious project-- an extemely readable extended apologia for interspiritiality."
Ashok Gangadean, World Commission on Global Consciousness and Spirituality-- "...This book deserves to be widely read on a global scale as we discover our new shared story of our human evoluionary journey."
Aster Patel, Governing Board, the Auroville (India) Foundation-- "This book senses the urgency of our destiny... and brings together myriad strands that could hasten the process".
The Temple of Understanding-- "If one can use The Coming Interspiritual Age as a map and guidepost, then there exists the possbility that it will light the way towards a global interfaith and intercultural peaceful future for humankind." Alison van Dyk, Chair and Executive Director
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Publisher : Namaste Publishing (January 8, 2013)
Language : English
Paperback : 440 pages
ISBN-10 : 1897238746
ISBN-13 : 978-1897238745
Item Weight : 1.4 pounds
Dimensions : 6 x 1 x 9 inchesBest Sellers Rank: #361,024 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)#92,249 in Religion & Spirituality (Books)Customer Reviews:
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Kurt Johnson
Dr. Kurt Johnson has worked in science and spirituality for over 40 years. This dual career in science and spirituality is detailed at WIKIPEDIA under Kurt Johnson, entomologist. In spirituality Kurt is co-author of the recently published book THE COMING INTERSPIRITUAL AGE with David Robert Ord, the Editorial Director of Namaste Publishing (publishers of such spiritual teachers as Eckhart Tolle and Michael Brown). As a New Release the book has been in Amazon’s Top Ten in Spirituality. In science Kurt is the co-author of the best-selling NABOKOV’s BLUES, with Steve Coates of The New York Times, which was a Top Ten Book in science in 2000. In 2016 Kurt followed with the book FINE LINES: VLADIMIR NABOKOV'S SCIENTIFIC ART with Yale University Press and co-editor Stephen Blackwell. Kurt was originally a Christian monk and founded, with Br. Wayne Teasdale and others, the InterSpiritual Dialogue (www.isdna.org, www.interspirituality.com) association for discussion of contemplative experience across traditions. Ordained in three spiritual traditions, he works also with The Contemplative Alliance (www.gpiw.org) and Integral communities (www.thecominginterspiritualage.com). In science Kurt’s PhD is in evolution, ecology, systematics and comparative biology. Associated with the American Museum of Natural History (30 yrs.) he published 200+ articles on evolution and ecology, including the 2011 Harvard DNA sequence study vindicating Vladimir Nabokov’s views of evolution. In 2015 Kurt was elected to The Evolutionary Leaders. However, Kurt’s primary interest is the simplicity of nondual spiritual practice.
4.2 out of 5 stars
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1.0 out of 5 stars Cheap Journalistic wasteReviewed in the United States on April 13, 2019
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I was lured into buying this book, based on Kurt Johnson's reputation as an insightful, deep author, and on exhilarating endorsements by serious teachers (eg. Richard Rohr, Paul Knitter, Rami Shapiro, etc). What a huge disappointment! This is just cheap journalistic writing, that even talks about 'merchants' like Deepak Chopra in the same vein as Bede Griffiths and Sri Aurobindo!?! There are many better books on Interspirituality out there....
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Trailwulf
5.0 out of 5 stars Deep Think About SpiritReviewed in the United States on March 29, 2013
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This is a five star book with tremendous historical sweep and provocative emphasis on the continuing spiritual evolution of the human race. It calls us all to affirm the gifts of our particular religious roots and their contribution to the one tree of life. This is not pointing to some homoginized ecumenicity but to many different wells that all tap in to the same aquifer. It allows one to affirm and participate in his/her religious tradition, avoid seeing all other traditions as being in error or perverting the truth, and promotes an ever-widening appreciation for and learning from "how others do it." This book is not for the religious bigot but for every longing heart and open mind who seeks deep peace and serenity of spirit.
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Old Phoenix
5.0 out of 5 stars Necessary CompendiumReviewed in the United States on January 21, 2014
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The previous reviews cover important details about this book, which I will try not to repeat. Much of the narrative resonated with my own reading, experiences, and personal evolution, so the material was easy to take in. It is well written and accessible to the non-scientist and non-theologian but satisfying to the expert. The familiar portions provided comfort food, while the information new to me made a fine dessert. For anyone interested in the intersections between science and spirituality and/or religion, this is a treasure house. For someone new to the subject, this is the place to start and then pursue the particular leads found inside that excite your imagination and make your heart race.The bibliography alone is worth the price of the book.
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marjorie lipari
5.0 out of 5 stars The Coming Interspiritual AgeReviewed in the United States on February 22, 2013
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A serious no fool around read.....I suggest this book be taken to heart.
Its detailed tracking of the dynamic process of human spiritual development through shifting paradigms
and the musing of how the future just may be unfolding in a direction of a greater We awareness.
On so many levels this book announces without a doubt the brilliance
of Kurt Johnson and David Robert Ord proving they have indeed done there homework on every
page with information at a depth that holds the potential to alter ones perceptions on a cellular level.
A stellar read !!!!
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Dr. Sonya Jones
5.0 out of 5 stars If you don't read another book this year, read The Coming Interspiritual AgeReviewed in the United States on May 29, 2013
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The Coming Interspiritual Age advances the work begun by Interfaith thinkers such as Father Bede Griffiths, Paramahansa Yogananda, and Brother Wayne Teasdale. Further, this text asks us to think seriously about the role of science in relation to contemporary spirituality. Too often, the scientist and theologian are placed in different categories, but Kurt Johnson, co-author of this text and a scientist/theologian himself, asks us to consider the sacred dimensions of both science and spirituality. If you don't read another book this year, read this one--slowly and thoughtfully. In its way, this text is prophetic of where Interspiritualy is likely to head over the next several decades as religious plurality makes inroads into the political and social fabric of a globalized world.
Dr. Sonya Jones, Professor of Comparative World Religions, Honors Program, The University of Kentucky
aka Swami Shraddhananda, Spiritual Director, Slate Branch Ashram
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Timothy H. Miner
5.0 out of 5 stars The next evolution of human spiritualityReviewed in the United States on February 13, 2013
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Dr. Kurt Johnson and David Ord have produced an excellent survey of the three thousand years plus of human spirituality and condensed it down into five hundred pages. The bottom line is that spirituality evolves as does the gamit of human activities. The next stage of human spirituality is the concept of "interspirituality" which was a term first used by Bro. Wayne Teasdale in his book "The Mystic Heart." Dr. Johnson's close relationship to Bro. Teasdale makes this book especially compelling to read. It provides a more up-to-date review of interspirituality, including modern structures like the Order of Universal Interfaith which was created since that first book. This work is on the "top-ten-must-reads" for our spiritual society.
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Bruce J. Casino
5.0 out of 5 stars New, universal, approach to spirituality and profound insights on science and religionReviewed in the United States on February 1, 2013
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Dr. Kurt Johnson provides a vision, deeply rooted in an integrated veiw of major faith traditions, of how to live a rich and blissful life both for the individual and for a planet in crises. He provides profound insights on everything from evolutionary psychology to the gap between rich and poor, to how to nurture the mystic in all of us. His interfaith perspective provides a new universal approach to spirituality for the individual which those in any faith tradition will gain from. His deep rootedness in science, in particular the very latest studies in biology, allows a modern (or post-modern) person to understand the scientific underpinnings of spirituality and religion and to form a comprehensive veiw of their relationship. All this in an eminently readable page turner with fresh insights leaping off each page. Read it, you will not be disappointed.
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David Sloan Wilson
5.0 out of 5 stars Authentic integration of spirituality and scienceReviewed in the United States on July 7, 2015
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It's easy to dismiss a book like this as new-agey but in fact it is solidly grounded in science. Kurt Johnson combines a PhD in evolutionary biology with monastic training. The concept of interspirituality notes that all religious traditions converge upon the scientifically validated fact that everything is interconnected. Certain ethical principles follow from this fact. See my interview with Johnson on the online magazine This View of Life for more.
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busmar
5.0 out of 5 stars compellingReviewed in Canada on August 18, 2013
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A compelling march through human evolution with a larger-than-planetary perspective. This brings into focus thinking that many have been hinting at, and which religions have been pointing to --- until they became lost in themselves.
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5.0 out of 5 stars Five StarsReviewed in the United Kingdom on August 27, 2016
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Fine study of de Chardins influence Augustine R
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The Coming Interspiritual Age
by Kurt Johnson, David Robert Ord
3.88 · Rating details · 25 ratings · 4 reviews
This book details the vision of interspirituality within a comprehensive and powerful synthesis of world religions and spirituality, the discoveries of modern science, and the developmental and evolutionary view of history. It is the first book to review and predict the ongoing history of world religions and spirituality in the context of developmental history, the evolutionary consciousness movement, and current scientific understandings of anthropology, human cognitive development, brain/mind and scientific consciousness studies.
This book addresses Brother WayneTeasdale’s vision of “The Interspiritual Age,” a vision that parallels the equally well-known and publicized visions of the world’s developmental and evolutionary consciousness movements (known therein as coming “Integral Age” or “Age of Evolutionary Consciousness”) and the international humanist movement (known therein as the emerging “international Ethical Manifold”). As such The Coming Interspiritual Age is the first synthesis of interfaith and interspirituality with the popular writings of integral leaders Ken Wilber and Don Beck.
The book includes provocative sections regarding the inherent unity within the world’s religious and spiritual understanding (especially their shared mystical understandings), the relationship of these and modern scientific studies of consciousness and brain/mind, the developmental and evolutionary views of history, the inevitable ongoing processes of world globalization and multiculturalism, the emergent understanding of the Divine Feminine, the nature of spiritual experience and the reputed spirit realms, and the various predictions around and surrounding the year 2012. The book concludes with extensive “how-to” sections regarding the development and practice of interspirituality as it can happen both within the world’s current religious traditions as well as in new, creative and entrepreneurial settings worldwide. (less)
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Geoff Little
Sep 02, 2013Geoff Little rated it it was amazing
First, are you familiar with this book’s publisher, Namaste? Based from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, the publishing house keeps a small, select roster, releasing 2-3 titles annually. They also keep a giant in the building. It was Namaste, via founder Constance Kellough, who brought Eckhart Tolle to the world in 1997 with The Power of Now. That title went on to sell six million copies in 33 languages. In 2008, Oprah Winfrey hosted Tolle for a 10-episode television series viewed by 35 million. Tolle has followed The Power of Now with six additional books and related products. He remains one of the most sought after spiritual teachers in the world, sharing company (and occasional appearances) with the Dalai Lama.
So, if you are Namaste Publishing and you want to go big on a title (and by the countless blurbs in several of the book’s front pages, and on the back jacket, it seems they do) what do you got? Where is the monster hook? With The Coming Interspiritual Age (TCIA), Namaste has done it. Here please find: Tolle-level grandeur. They’ve given us a brilliant 14 billion-year planetary (occasionally interplanetary) ride captained by authors Johnson and Ord. Both are scholars with professional religious experience (Ord is also on staff at Namaste as editorial director). At over 400 pages, TCIA is a profound study of human spirituality that is at once accessible, brisk, rigorous, and exhilarating.
In beginning such a review, my spell check stayed unhappy with both the words “interspiritual” and “interspirituality.” I took this as a sign with where to start talking. The authors explain interspiritual as the idea that “the entire religious experience of our species has [in fact] been a single experience unfolding through many lines and branches, together empowering our species for higher evolution.” Interspiritual was coined in 1999 by Roman Catholic lay monk Brother Wayne Teasdale (1945-2004). Teasdale was a pioneer of interfaith theory and considered an expert in the area by his life’s end. Here is a signature Teasdale quote referenced throughout TCIA:
"The real religion of humankind can be said to be spirituality itself, because mystical spirituality is the origin of all the world religions. If this is so, we might also say that interspirituality—the sharing of ultimate experiences across traditions—is the religion of the third millennium. Interspirituality is the foundation that can prepare the way for a planet-wide enlightened culture, and a continuing community among the religions that is substantial, vital, and creative. (The Mystic Heart by Wayne Teasdale, New World Library Press, 1999)."
The Coming Interspiritual Age has grand ambitions. The book is up for re-framing Earth history, holding the tension between science and religion, and newly explaining how 100 billion or so of us have ever lived, want to more fully live, and may, in fact, soon be able to live. This is done not by reviewing interfaith discourse(s), but through scientific and religious epochal exploration.
The authors understand that the influence of the origins of human identity are profound. They address this issue early and often – how might we process that much of the world now, not to mention across time, has used religion (not science) to explain human identity? They shift to recent times to review forces of scientific discovery, pointing toward patterns and processes for answers of what a coming age should entail. In one case, they note major world religions are now increasingly comfortable with evolution as an explanation of human origins – that there is a traceable pattern of acceptance in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam with between 30 and 40 percent of adherents accepting the theory. There is a continued interest across similar identity questions leading to what process can be deduced from this pattern? How can such a process be better understood, and modeled?
Author Kurt Johnson, Ph.D., has a professional background that includes time as an Anglican monk. He has completed doctoral studies in evolutionary biology and ecology and now works primarily in comparative religious studies. He resides in Brooklyn, New York.
TCIA examines, across many chapters representing the bulk of the book, the Magic-Mythic age, into the rise of the God-Kings, onto the Renaissance and Enlightenment. The book arrives at our present time, ripe with scientific knowledge, but in terms of spirituality, comfortable and even hungry for – wait for it – trappings of the Magic-Mythic age again. The authors point to the hubbub of the Mayan December 21, 2012 date as an indicator of the public’s thirst for prophecy and fulfillment. Further, they note the unsurpassed popularity of morally conscious fantasies such as Star Wars and the Harry Potter series. It is a wonder that our scientific knowledge doesn’t appear to have the same sort of narrative satisfaction as these spiritually-minded films.
“Seldom do terrorists act in the name of consciousness religions,” write Johnson and Ord. The book projects history to arrive where religious identification is ultimately immaterial. The authors explain that we are moving, albeit slowly, from “hot religions” to “cool.” This is to say that, across the globe, dooming one another in the name of “our one true god/no-you-are-going-to-Hell” is on the decrease. A conscionable life-givingness, a generosity, an embodied compassion, all are becoming persuasive and soon, pervasive. Territory formerly occupied by religious creeds is falling to the unstoppability of a conscionable spirituality filled with deeds. That is to say that in the eyes of Johnson and Ord creeds are losing their level of influence. The more that such a spirituality be born – the more consciousness across our planet. The more consciousness, the more one-ness. This One-ness is our endgame according to the book. This is the great interspiritual hallmark meant to gird the Third Millenium.
It seems impossible to come to this book without one’s own personal background coloring the experience of the contents. For me, as one identified (if reservedly) as a Christian (I am a member in the Presbyterian Church USA), I was thrilled with this book’s desire for total redemption of and ultra-connection among all peoples. The emphasis on deeds over creeds makes great sense to me, and the book fleshes out early… it’s the institutions that provide the creeds. For example:
"Almost everything wrong with the world is the result of the way the institutional space is misaligned or out of control. When was the last time your bank did you a favor? What was your opinion of the “no questions asked” multi-trillion dollar bailout of the financial industry? When you examine social structures anywhere in the world, the most obvious disconnect is between the needs and wants of the “I” and “We” that built the institutional space, and the way the institutional space behaves toward us."
(Such a passage is an example of the book’s ability to humanely editorialize more philosophical points.) But to continue the idea of Christianity and TCIA, was Jesus an advocate of interspirituality? I believe so. I see Christ pointing – always – to this experience and truth: God is Love. Love for You. Love for All. I see the early church and apostles carrying this out, while wrestling with how to keep the institutional Judaic laws (creeds). It was an emerging conversation then, messy and too often culturally influenced. Meanwhile, we do not see from Christ the exclusion of other faiths and traditions. If you could be with him, you could Be. With. Him. It was a deeds experience. The only strong teaching we have from Jesus on religion was his calling out of the Judaic Scribes and Pharisees – their abuse of the power they held in their positions. Meanwhile, a generation or more later, tasked with capturing his version of Christ’s life, John, that most mystic of Christ’s disciples, up in years, opens his gospel account with, to my mind, an interspiritual account of reality. I hope you are familiar with his words beginning John 1, culminating with the declaration the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it.
I commend The Coming Interspiritual Age to those with the following interests:
Anyone with a love of futurism, no matter what religious disposition. Anthropology majors and those (including me) who wish they’d been. Historians. Those who enjoy the occasionally-expressed science-minded side of Fr. Richard Rohr (who is a featured blurb on the back cover), Joseph Campbell fans (which makes me think of Bill Moyers, who also deserves this company). Stephen Hawking fans with an interest in religion. Readers of Brian McLaren’s most “meta” works will be delighted. If you are familiar with any of the community Tami Simon and Sounds True keeps (thinking of Mirabai Starr first, and there are others), this is a great extension (and gentle amalgamation) of the values of that group. Also, Krista Tippett, and her similarly bold cadre of thinkers, dreamers, and doers.
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Martha Jette
Sep 09, 2013Martha Jette rated it it was amazing
We are now well into the third millennium and change is coming in so many facets of our lives than we could have previously ever imagined. The authors of The Coming Interspiritual Age call this the Fifth Great Advance of civilization or the Dream of Holism.
As a civilization, humans have lived through many stages with our current one focused on not only the importance of rationalization and an analytic mind but also the beginnings of holistic thinking and the exploration of consciousness. In this book, the authors propose a coming Sixth Great Advance moving us toward full globalization.
A primary concern of this new age will be the creation of a one-world spiritualism that draws upon the precious jewels found within the myriad of world religions as the basis of a new worldwide belief system. It is essential, the authors write, that as the awareness of our increasing global community enters full consciousness, that we take those jewels into consideration in the formation of one global belief system that unifies us as one human race on this planet.
They caution, however, that this could also become “hijacked” by religion if various parties to this formation become too egocentric and controlling. Unfortunately, personal, regional and territorial desires over the years have opened the door to greed, degradation of the environment, rivalry between various religious factions and differing concepts on what is most important in life. This in turn has led to terrorism and wars between nations.
By cultivating an expanded worldview and promoting discourse among the various world religions, a global vision could unfold as to how humanity as a whole should spiritually behave with good conscience in the future. This will come, the authors believe, as humans experience further awareness and expanded consciousness, realizing the connectivity of all humans rather than any personal, regional or territorial desires.
The Coming Interspiritual Age provides a compelling summary on the theory of evolution – how the human species consciously developed over thousands of years taking in the importance of language and writing on the evolving mind and also their impact on our belief systems.
This book focuses primarily on the writings of Roman Catholic lay monk and interfaith leader, Brother Wayne Teasdale (now deceased), from his book The Mystic Heart: Discovering a Universal Spirituality in the World’s Religions. It was Teasdale, the authors note, who first coined the term ‘interspirituality,” which involves thinking of the ‘we’ rather than the ‘I’ and acting from the heart.
The ‘I, We and It’ of daily life is something that everyone experiences no matter where they live. ‘I’ refers to self, ‘We’ to those we know including family, friends and associates, and ‘It’ refers to the institutions that govern how we should act, think and feel based on a particular country’s ideals and religions.
Ironically, it is the “I and We” that created the institutions (‘It’) in the first place that people now feel threatened by such as government structures and banking systems that act with impunity. As the world inches closer to globalization the authors believe these institutions that rule our lives will also have to change from being self-serving and money driven entities to thinking and acting from the heart with full awareness of global needs rather than their own.
This is a book that looks both backward and forward in an attempt to offer the full picture of our current state of spirituality, as well as what steps must be taken to move toward an interspiritual world. It is well written, informative and most of all, thought provoking.
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Leah
Jul 15, 2013Leah rated it it was amazing
What a wealth of information about secular history, about anthropology, about world and indigenous religions, about individuality, and about our common humanity this book contains! It includes enough material for a lifetime of study and learning, and as you read, you might find yourself remembering certain books, classes, and professors, or you might find yourself suddenly interested in a new-to-you concept or era. To help navigate, and to assist your future topical study, useful End Matter (don't you love that term?) includes:
* Appendix I, Synopsis of the Developmental Periods
* Appendix II, Magic-Mythic and Apocalyptic Views of 2012
* Appendix III, Link to the Interspiritual Multiplex Resource Website
* Bibliography of "Books and articles consulted or referred to in The Coming Interspiritual Age"
Authors Johnson and Ord tell us "Generally, the expression 'spiritual world' refers to the entire dimension of consciousness, including the 'spirit realm' or 'astral realm' referred to in virtually every religious tradition." [chapter 14] They remind us some religious styles and traditions are closer to "revealed';" other could better be described as "consciousness" religions, though each has elements of the other; both types are important and complement each other. The late Brother Wayne Teasdale insisted, "Everyone is a mystic." Everyone participates on some level in the mysteries of this world and worlds unknown. Beyond this planet earth, within this globe, in some wholly other ethereal realm? Maybe all of those.
From the start, the authors remind us of the ultimate non-dualism of the interdependence of all creation, despite most of us operating most of the time detached from the other than us. Ultimately, it's about our "primary interspirituality, shared consciousness and heart, right here, right now." [chapter 28] That fact partly explains why, to quote Ari Ariyaratne, "We who have been born Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, or any other faith can be very comfortable in each other's temples."[chapter 10] However, please be warned, interspirituality is not syncretism, not a blend or a blended religion. [chapter 18]
The Coming Interspiritual Age ... "coming age?" That era is both here and now, and yet to come, very much in the sense of Jesus of Nazareth's earthly ministry and the eschatological lifestyle to which the Spirit summons and enables the present-day Church of Jesus Christ. We're moving into "...the collective―the world of 'We,' including all that's transcultural, transnational, trans-traditional, and world-centric." [chapter 23] Consider this book for a study group, as the basis of a university, community college, or continuing education course, possibly as a discussion document for an ecumenical or interfaith group. Outstanding! (less)
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Fr. River
Aug 03, 2013Fr. River rated it it was amazing
THE COMING INTERSPIRITUAL AGE BY KURT JOHNSON AND DAVID ROBERT ORD
This book gives a history of humanity, basically a history of religion, and points out how we need to come together in common belief, an interspirituality. Its argues that basically we have evolved to the point for our survival we need to come together in common belief. I too belief in interspirituality,but I am a Christian, and I follow Christ, while believing God revealed himself in other religions. I find the arguments of this book place interpspirituality on a level that is beyond the reach of the common person, and intellectualizes spiritual practice. I have had interns from local interspiritual seminaries and each one struggles with putting into practice his theological perspective. In other words the rubber does not meet the road. I believe that we must strive for interspiritual faith giving all of our beliefs respect. (less)
