Jan 29, 2021Fergus rated it really liked it
8 notes & 10 highlights
Don't misunderstand Rohr's shock tactics. Heaven and Hell are not just here and now, for they're eternal. And if you can take the pain of the Fire here, you can take the pain in the beyond. Otherwise, this book is simply Eckhart Tolle garbed in a Franciscan habit.
Richard Rohr is an iconoclast, so be forewarned! A Christian who doesn’t believe in an Afterlife? A Liberationist? Perhaps - it’s hard to nail him down. But one thing is for sure: he lives ENTIRELY in the present moment. Which I try to do as well. And mostly fail.
But Rohr seems to put the word Heaven within inverted commas, as if it’s not a substantial transcendent truth at all. I have great difficulties with that, and it’s as if he’s also denying God’s transcendence. I would really appreciate some ingenuous clarifications from him! He’s an Artful Dodger.
So none of my anticipated superlatives for this one, folks. Remember when Alexander Pope archly said, “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?”
He meant it’s a dangerous thing for the nut cases among us: for it’s like “giving a gun to a melancholic bore” - as Auden admonished, in The Quest. Those living in their sublunary worlds are bound to misconstrue Rohr.
OK, OK, I’ve been one-upped on my earlier high estimate. And yet his clarity within, and love for the absolute present tense of life is redoubtable.
But I’ll add a caveat: “A LOT of knowledge is the Road to Hell.” - my own bow shot at my knowing critics. Because I know it from experience. And give a questioning man like Rohr - or myself in the old days - an inch and he'll take a mile.
Well, has Richard Rohr gone that well-rutted road?
To answer that, think back to T.S. Eliot’s irreverently puckish “Mr. Eliot’s Sunday Morning Service:”
In the beginning was the Word:
Superfetation of “TO ‘EN [Being]”
And at the mensual turn of time
Produced enervate Origen.
Why does he use the name Origen - an early Father of the Church - as being enervate? Simple.
Too much partying can do a guy in! You see, a guy’s nerve endings become dull after too mucha that sorta thing!
So why does he says superfetation? Too easy...
Superfetation produces Giants, and it is no accident that the same Church Council that disciplined the giant, Origen, suppressed the Jewish quasi-Kabbalistic Book of Enoch, in which the ancient and arcane explanation of the the word Giant is freely given.
A Giant is megalomania incarnate.
You know, one would almost think it was Origen’s Gnostic leanings that nearly caused him to be Anathematized. And one bright Christian wag recently gave a one-star rating to Rohr on Audible. His reason?
‘NO HEAVEN + NO HELL = HERESY.’
More exactly, the same heresy that another Church Father, Irenaeus, once mercilessly gutted and hung out to dry (see my review under his name).
Things fall apart: the Centre will not hold -
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.
Nuff said?
There’s tons of good reading out there, but may I recommend Irenaeus?
Were he here today, he’d skewer Richard Rohr quite handily and nail him down fair and square against traditional thinking.
I just don’t know how to do that in a palatable enough way for his many followers in our free and easy postmodern age. (less)
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Pete
Mar 08, 2014Pete rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
i'm finally getting around to typing up some of my notes from books i read in 2014 and i'm not sure how i wound up giving this book four stars instead of five. as always disclaimer: what follows may not be of interest if you're not in recovery and at least somewhat positively disposed toward mr christ.
this is basically just a guy putting each of the classic twelve steps in a deep, smart, and soulful christian context, but not the fast-food version of christian context -- jesus is magic, we love magic jesus, that's all we know -- but the gnarly complex christian context, the kind that understands we are all sinners. anyway if you find yourself in the same size and shape of rowboat as me, you will dig this book. even if your boat situation is wildly divergent, let me just share rohr's four assumptions about addiction
1) we are all addicts
2) "stinking thinking"/our way way of doing anything-our own defenses-our patterned ways of thinking is the universal addiction
3) all societies are addicted to themselves
4) some form of alternative consciouness (prayer, meditation, therapy, just not behaving exactly the same way forever) is the only freedom from addiction
if that doesn't zing you a little then this book probably doesn't have a lot to offer you (less)
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Nate
Jan 19, 2012Nate rated it really liked it
Shelves: spirituality, recovery-addiction
This was less of an explanation of the Twelve Steps and more of a commentary on them. Good insights, as always, from Richard Rohr. I especially appreciated his point that all of us are addicted, especially to our own way of thinking. We all are powerless and in need of trusting a higher power. Easy to read and simple message.
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Diane
May 02, 2012Diane rated it really liked it · review of another edition
found myself quibbling a bit with his spirituality (from a Lutheran point of view), and I am tired of the "Do you worship Jesus or follow him?" dichotomy (to me, it's a both/and). But the 12th chapter, on the 12th step, was worth it all.
from the "Big Book": "so our troubles are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves; and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-well run riot, though he or she does not think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us!"
So, we are called to serve others. If we receive, we also give. (less)
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Edward
Sep 10, 2016Edward rated it really liked it · review of another edition
"What religion would Jesus belong to?" was the title of a recent NY Times article about contemporary Christianity. You don't generally think of AA as a "religion" and while it's technically not one, Rohr finds that its approach to helping individuals overcome their addictions is a spiritual one with many parallels to the teachings of Christ.
Rohr makes four assumptions about addictions. First, we are all "addicts", being addictive by nature, subject to illusions and entrapments. The Biblical tradition calls them "sins", and in the New Testament they are often objectified as "demons" and are driven out.
Second, the universal addiction is "thinking", that is our habitual way of doing anything, our thought patterns, usually ones we're not even aware of.
Third, all societies agree, to some extent, to be compulsive about the same things and blind to the same problems. He gives as American examples, "our addiction to oil, war, empire, the church's addiction [and some patriotic ones] to its own absolute exceptionalism, the poor person's addiction to victim- hood, the white person's addiction to superiority, the wealthy person's addiction to entitlement."
Fourth, "Some form of alternative consciousness is the only freedom from this self and from cultural ties." Rohr finds that this means some kind of contemplative practice, or in Christian terms, "praying." Otherwise, you never break out of your rutted existence.
What AA does then, Rohr contends, is to take an extreme example of addiction, a dependence on alcohol, and try through its twelve step program to break this slavery. Does it work? He thinks it is a powerful and valid approach. . In breaking out of a terribly addictive habit, the addict must first admit that he is powerless to do it on his own. The ego has to let go and seek help, through others, through a "power greater than ourselves." Among many things that means acceptance of ourselves - the past, our mistakes, imperfections, openness. Our first inclination, though, is to become aggressive, fight, take control, think we can improve ourselves on our own. Here is where he thinks AA differs from much organized religion which promotes individual merit and sacrifice, with the payoff being some kind of "heaven." AA works more on the basis of what has been called "grace," undeserved and gratuitous goodness emerging in the humble individual.
Goodness always comes through failure. The addict has already been in a personal hell, and while it wouldn't be wished on anyone, without it, nothing makes any sense. We have to fall before we can rise. With the fall comes repentance and then, apology, healing, and forgiveness. At this point, the shackles of the past are broken.
There is a paradox in all of this, though, summed up in the aphorism, "No one catches the wild ass by running after him, yet only those who run after the wild ass ever catch him." It's the same paradox as the title of the book, "Breathing Under Water." Going to AA meetings is obviously a matter or trying to improve yourself, all the while realizing that it is impossible to improve yourself. It's a kind of preparation, and whether a change occurs, depends on, again using spiritual language, metaphors for the spirit (Holy), living water, blowing wind, descending flames, alighting doves. As I understand it, the change might not occur at all, or it might occur when least expected. It's an ongoing process, as is life itself. Joys and disappointments for anyone cannot be predicted; all that one can ask for is an openness to a mysterious future.
Back to the beginning which was one of those glib "what would Jesus do?" questions, I think Richard Rohr would agree that it would not be surprising to find Jesus at an AA meeting.
(less)
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Dan Bonner
Aug 16, 2012Dan Bonner rated it it was amazing
I thought this was an excellent book that I will reference over and over again. It forced me to think differently about certain things I spent my life time believing.
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Ellie
Jun 20, 2014Ellie rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Shelves: spiritual, 2014indchalnge, non-fiction, addict-mental-illness
Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the 12 Steps, a small and wonderful book by one of my most favorite priests, Father Richard Rohr, is a reminder of, as a friend of mine says, "who we are and what we are"-beings founded in love who struggle to find that love which we are. Fr. Rohr looks at the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous in the light of the Gospel and Catholic faith and find a deeply spiritual path.
I was touched, refreshed, and challenged by this work. I started to list it on my "self-help" shelf but realized this book is anything but. It is how we ground ourselves in the otherness of God and love of others that we discover ourselves. We must work hard to achieve this but in the end, it is only achieved by letting go and an act of God. Luckily, I like paradox. (less)
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Bank
Nov 10, 2011Bank rated it it was ok
All students of the Twelve Steps know that God and spirituality are the foundation of a successful program of recovery . In this book, Fr. Rohr is making the valid case that many people in our society today are much like the unrecovered addict ( sans the drugs ) in their emotional and spiritual makeup. He makes the further point that many adherents of the Christian church ( I believe he is singling out Catholicism ) have not addressed their spiritual issues and emotional makeup with anything approaching the intensity of the 12 Step Program . In fact, I would agree .
The book may further convince believers , but I doubt it will sway any skeptics. There are none so blind as those who will not see. (less)
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Alison
Mar 22, 2015Alison rated it really liked it
This is a great book to grab when you find yourself in the grips of any sort of desire, addiction, or affliction, be it in the form of substance, compulsive behavior, or addictive thoughts. Those who, however, are still offended or wounded by dualistic religious or biblical experiences, will likely be turned off and stop after the first chapter (or page - each chapter begins with several quotes from scripture that correspond to the step the chapter is about). Those who choose to open themselves to the deeper meaning of these scriptural references and the wisdom with which Father Richard Rohr uses to extrapolate meanings and messages, will find riches here. Rohr calls the 12 Steps "America's most significant contribution to spirituality". I am intrigued by Bill Wilson's relationship and correspondence with Catholic priest Father Ed Dowling at the time of his evolutionary work on the 12 steps and his own personal journey (and the connections between the 12 steps and the 12 Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius). In Breathing Under Water, Fr. Richard is able to go into the depths to draw upon the connectivity between the 12 steps and the archetypal human journey of struggle and growth. I consider this a First Aid kit or "go to" book when I find myself in the grips of my very human self, helping to refresh my perspective and find the inspiration needed to get back on the path of my higher self. (less)
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Drew
Jan 07, 2017Drew rated it really liked it · review of another edition
Excellent book n the twelve steps for alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike. The last two chapters deserve to be re-read and re-read.
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Benjamin Shurance
May 14, 2021Benjamin Shurance rated it really liked it · review of another edition
I started reading this out of some ministerial curiosity about the 12 Steps. It ended up speaking a lot of words I needed to hear.
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Milt Jacobs
Oct 09, 2019Milt Jacobs rated it it was amazing
Good
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Andrew Doohan
Jan 29, 2013Andrew Doohan rated it really liked it · review of another edition
In his usual easily accessible style, Richard Rohr provides a study of the underlying spiritual dimension of the Twelve Step program used by organisations such as Alcoholics Anonymous and other similar groups.
The beauty of Rohr's exploration is that his exposition of the spiritual side of the Twelve Steps has much to offer those who wouldn't normally be exposed to the Twelve Steps, those who simply seek to live out their Christian journey with some degree of integrity.
For anyone who fits that category I would highly recommend this little book by Richard Rohr. (less)
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Joe Skillen
Jul 04, 2020Joe Skillen rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Powerful
I will read this book again. As many times as it might take. It puts the whole of life together for me.
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Christy Robeson
Jan 24, 2021Christy Robeson rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Shelves: 2021
A book I didn't know I needed to read. (less)
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Patricia
Apr 05, 2021Patricia rated it it was amazing
Breathing Underwater was my choice for a Lenten discipline. Does it count as a discipline if you enjoyed it too much? I love Richard Rohr's down-to-earth explanations of who Christ was, how we are meant to FOLLOW Christ, to imitate him, not so much as cultic worshiping, with all sorts of "this is how you are supposed to do it."
In this book, Richard Rohr looks at the 12 Step Program for alcoholics, and draws lines between the steps and Jesus' example and the way the earliest Christians practiced following Christ.
Reading this book is, for me, like breathing underwater. It lifts burdensome constrictions which keep us from being fully who we are created to be, and urges us on in our discipleship of the living Christ. It revels in the humility of being humanly incapable of being without sin, while choosing to ask God to help us to do his will. I've already loaned this book out, and told the person I will need it back, both so I can loan it out again and so I can remind myself of who we are following, and how we are to follow, by being love, and giving love, including to ourselves. (less)
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Kailee Lelli
Mar 09, 2020Kailee Lelli rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Breathing Underwater had me hooked right away. It goes into detail about how your spiritual mindset will get you places you haven't been, especially with the twelve steps. Richard Rohr goes on about how the twelve steps are used in people's lives, and how whoever is reading this book can use it. It is a lovely book. I recommend this book to anyone (even if they do not need the 12 step study guide) who is looking for a closer relationship to God or want to know about how and why God loves each of us. (less)
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Kathleen
Mar 20, 2018Kathleen rated it really liked it · review of another edition
Shelves: faith, nonfiction, catholic, personal-development, recovery
Richard Rohr is definitely not orthodox Catholic, but he sure does have a lot of good things to say. I especially appreciate his views on recovery, as it really is a spiritual process and one that lines up perfectly with the Gospel. I didn't agree with everything in this book and there were a view times where he lost me a bit, but overall I underlined a lot of passages and it had a very positive impact on me. (less)
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Alison
Sep 12, 2021Alison rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
I'm a fan of Rohr and find most of his work inspiring, though some of his books are more approachable than others. Rooting this one in the familiar twelve step program makes it very approachable and creates a highly readable structure. I've always been fascinated with how the process of faith weaves through the 12 steps and have often contemplated its alignment with the gospel, so having Rohr put it all together into a package was a great experience that affirmed many of my existing thoughts but also challenged me to look inward in ways I hadn't expected. (less)
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Sarah
Nov 27, 2020Sarah rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
I already need to go back and re-read it! Rohr describes the 12 Steps as a technology for the sort of deep transformational work described by theologians from many world religions, although his primary focus is the Christian scriptures. Since he is a Franciscan, his take is really groovy and inclusive, though, so it is inspiring even of you're not a Christian. (less)
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Jim Keating
Apr 12, 2021Jim Keating rated it really liked it · review of another edition
Richard Rohr is brilliant, deep, a real authority on the Twelve Steps. Being new to the 12 Step world, particularly examining the challenging aspects of the spirituality undergirding it, and the wisdom in the simplicity of each step, has left me wanting more...so I'll read it again. A good friend has read it 5 times so I've got some catching up to do. It's a small book but not a quick read. Soak up every sentence and let it challenge you. (less)
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Mary Lynn Elker
Nov 20, 2020Mary Lynn Elker rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Very thought provoking. Will read again.
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Chris
Jul 20, 2020Chris rated it really liked it
Let's just start with my bias. I love Richie Rohr!
A highlight from this book for me was on the topic of self acceptance and surrender. I have often struggled with my own ability to communicate God's unconditional love and grace to others while holding to a different standard for myself (I was raised very much as a performance-based legalistic kind of Christian). So reading this book led me to a new kind of "conversion" experience as my eyes were opened a bit to how loving and trustworthy God is to me.
Another great section for me was about prayer. It's not about getting God to do stuff for me but "opting in" to the divine...participating in what God is up to.
Although his writing leans progressive and makes some conservative Christians nervous, I think it goes along way to helping people of faith realize some of the ways in which we idealize the Christian life but often fail to actually love God and others well.
Thanks for helping me learn to breathe some fresh air, Richie! (less)
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Jackie St Hilaire
Nov 27, 2016Jackie St Hilaire rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
One step at a time.
A few weeks ago I visited a man who has been following the 12 step program for over 20 years. On one of my visits I asked if we could go through the steps together and he picked up his book and began to read the steps one by one, flipping over the pages so fast that I didn't have a chance to dialogue with him. He read them, put the book down and that was it. This is a very depressed individual and full of guilt and shame, I was hoping to bring about a more shameless and guiltless approach.
During this time, I came across Richard Rohr's book "Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps and this is exactly what I needed to pursue my conversation with the man.
In visiting I always try to bring my own experience into the conversation and that is that most of us have some form of addiction going on and we are struggling to free ourselves from the guilt that has caused relationships to break down etc.
Richard Rohr, has given us direction on how to proceed, how to leave behind our negative, false self and move beyond and start living again.
It's not "been there done that", it's there 365 days a year and the motto "one day at a time" sometimes brings you to "one minute at a time".
For many of us it's why should I even get out of bed in the morning? We all need a purpose for living, meaning in our life, someone to care for and sometimes someone to care for us. It's a balancing act and it's not easy, many times we take one step forward and two steps backwards but the most important thing is not to give up,even if we are walking on our tiptoes. (less)
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ms.petra
Jan 07, 2019ms.petra rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
This book was the focus a small book club I was invited to join last fall. We meet once a week schedules and health permitting. We read out loud and discuss our thoughts and experiences honestly and profoundly. It is what I dreamed a book club would be and this book has helped me tremendously not only in my sobriety journey, but more importantly my spiritual journey. Fr. Rohr reminds us what Jesus taught. It is profoundly simple even though the big business of religion has made it otherwise. I highly recommend the accompanying workbook/journal to make the most of this powerful work. (less)
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Jim
Feb 29, 2012Jim rated it it was amazing · review of another edition
Shelves: spirituality-religion, social-issues, jims-reviews, favorites
This was an amazing book - a great way to look at Christian spirituality and the 12 steps. It's an amazing paradigm shift from how we look at our spiritual lives today. The way Rohr delves into the 12 steps leaves the reader with a lasting impression. I borrowed this book from a priest friend on Kindle - but I think I'm going to have to purchase a physical copy for myself to re-read it. Highly recommended. (less)
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