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Did stoic philosophers believe in God?
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Ed Heidicker
Some do, some don't, so what?
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· 1 y
David Moss
This is a FAQ.
Ancient stoics would have considered the pros and cons of Gods existing. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that behaving as if they do has no downside while behaving as if they do not may have a downside. Risk management would mean behaving as if Gods exist even if you are unconvinced they exist. So while ancient stoics often talked as if Gods exist, we really can’t tell if they personally believed Gods exist.
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· 1 y
James Daltrey
They didn't think gods were gods.
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· 1 y
David Moss
Epictetus certainly believed Gods exist. Marcus Aurelius did too.
Now departure from the world of men is nothing to fear, if gods exist: because they would not involve you in any harm. If they do not exist, or if they have no care for humankind, then what is life to me in a world devoid of gods, or devoid of providence? But they do exist, and they do care for humankind: and they have put it absolutely in man's power to avoid falling into the true kinds of harm."
—Marcus Aurelius, Meditations 2.11
Zeno believed the Universe itself was God.
Cleanthes, Zeno’s successor, even wrote a hymn:
Lead me, Zeus, and you too, Destiny,
To wherever your decrees have assigned me.
I follow readily, but if I choose not,
Wretched though I am, I must follow still.
Fate guides the willing, but drags the unwilling
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Edited
Jc Gentner
David Moss, I think James' point was that the Stoics didn't believe the gods were the same gods as those of Greek/Roman myth - and definitely not the God of Abraham.
They didn't believe the gods were personified deities in the heavens; and furthermore, they only believed in one god, which was the universe or nature (God, Zeus, The Universe, Nature, Cosmos, Providence, etc are all synonymous) and any reference to individual gods are descriptors of individual natural events rather than the gods of myth, but everything in the universe is connected through a web of causality.
"All things are interwoven, and the bond that unites them is sacred, and hardly anything is alien to any other thing, for they have been ranged together and are jointly ordered to form a common universe. For there is one universe made up of all that is, and one god who pervades all things, and one substance and one law, and one reason common to all intelligent creatures, and one truth, if indeed there is one perfection for all creatures who are of the same stock and partake of the same reason." (Meditations, 7.9)
For the Stoics, God was something natural and physical, with evidence - not supernatural and metaphysical reliant on faith. It's the god that fascinated Einstein, and continues to be of constant discussion by the world's physicists today.
I say this often, but you could explain the Stoics entire theory of (meta)physics without once using the word "god", and you'd still arrive at the same conclusions. When the Stoics talk of god or the gods, they're not talking of the same gods as most people would understand.
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· 1 y
David Moss
Jc Gentner does anyone believe in the same God/s as anyone else? We know the early stoics spoke as if they believed the Gods of their culture existed. Social harmony may have been the reason, or they may have actually believed in the Gods. As I said earlier there is no downside to assuming God/s exist. Practicality rules!
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D M Michelle Dolan
Hey, just to be a Stoic does not mean all other reality is off limits!
How f boring that would be!
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· 1 y
Savvas Grigoropoulos
ON THE ISSUE OF RELIGION, ONLY THE GREEKS DISCOVERED TRUTH ...
In the Hellenic tradition, our Gods are the laws that govern and control the universe and everything in the universe.
Our Gods are the universe and the universe is our Gods.
Our Gods are above us, below us, around us and within us.
http://ellinikotitaellinismoshellenism.blogspot.com/
ELLINIKOTITAELLINISMOSHELLENISM.BLOGSPOT.COM
Ellinikotita Ellinismos Hellenism / GreeceEllinikotita Ellinismos Hellenism / Greece
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· 1 y
Giorgos Aronis
«In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.»
Well, where “Word” put “Logos”and I believe you have a pretty good idea of what they believed in...
(Who came first? Stoics or Evangelists?)
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· 1 y
Jesse GlascoShaffer
Giorgos Aronis what??
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· 1 y
Jesse GlascoShaffer
Stoics came before Christians
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· 1 y
Giorgos Aronis
Jesse GlascoShaffer sorry for the misunderstanding; it was a rhetorical question to prove that what was preached later was only rephrasing what was already been said.
I think Stoics were believers with a holistic approach and appreciation of the divine.
Hope I made my self clear now.
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Matthew Stepanovich
Idk does stoic philosophers believe in Truth?
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· 1 y
7 replies
Jim Kilbertus
Most stoic believers do not profess their belief. They present themselves as who they are personally.
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· 1 y
Jesse GlascoShaffer
I think that depends on whether you're talking about ancient stoics or modern stoics
There's nothing about stoicism though that would require a belief in a god, just a belief in the natural world
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· 1 y
5 replies
Harry Anthony Panther
Marcus Aurelius, Seneca and Epictetus believe in God. Their belief in God are all over in their writings. Unless you have not read their works, your question appears to have some other intention?
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· 1 y
Martha Deirdre
Do Stoic Philosophers
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· 1 y
Sirbucktea Undreiyas
Yes, but they were materialists, they understood God as equivalent to the universe which is made of matter.
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· 1 y
Steve Branks
Some Stoic philosophers believed in God, and gods, but there is no reason why modern Stoics need to do so. We pretty much know how the universe came about and we certainly know that life on earth has evolved. There is no role for the gods to play any more.
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· 1 y
James Daltrey
Except the Stoics called the universe god, and the big bang is the same..No magic.
You have the wrong kind of God in mind.
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· 1 y
Amber Thut
It's the kind of God 99% of the modern population has in mind when they ask if people believe in God.
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· 1 y
Thomas Braun
That's why i wrote this book: https://thomaspbraun.com/TheBridge.pdf
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· 1 y
Thomas Braun
And no, modern academics still don't have consensus on how the material plane evolved. They don't even accept the existence of immaterial planes
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· 1 y
Thomas Braun
If one needs belief in God, then one hasn't had a personal revelation. Belief is extinguished with contemplation, introspection, and meditation of internal causality.
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Yule Ulys
Yes
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· 1 y
Dobbie Herrion
Yes
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· 1 y
Jerry Janes
Roman elite create religions when they needed them. Cicero believe the Roman needed to be change to something that look more like Christianity and Emperor Claudius wrote book of subject changing and create religion. Some belief the Emperor Titus created Christianity to counter the zealots in the Jewish faith that why it is very anti-Jewish in nature.
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· 1 y
Kevin Price
Here we go again
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· 1 y
Frederik Verešpej
Yes
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· 1 y
Tom Herrington
Some do. Some do not.
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· 1 y
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Edited
S.D. Plissken
Yes. I believe that stoicism is rooted in theological philosophy, especially in regards to virtue, vice, indulgence and charity.
As a personal note, I feel the Orthodox church lends itself well with the stoic philosophy.
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· 1 y
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Edited
Malkan Maki Pilipovic
They used to, yes, but it's not a requirement of the philosophy. That said, the View From Above sticks well with religious people who see it as taking the perspective of God. Up to you what you believe.
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· 1 y
Dennis Dupont
Does it matter? Alot has changed since then, including science. But you can include your beliefs to stoicism if you need that in your life. The pillars of stoicism though, remains the same no matter the timeline..
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· 1 y
Kalen Berreman
Dennis Dupont obviously it matters to OP. Does science have anything to do with the question?
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· 1 y
Amber Thut
Yes actually.
If OP was getting at "then we can't be stoics unless we are also theistic" the reminder that these philosophers knew fuck all about how the world worked (due to a lack of scientific understanding at the time) would be incredibly relevant. Because we believe (or rather, know) lots of things that they didn't.
Our understandings don't need to match. We need only be concerned with the philosophy.
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· 1 y
Dennis Dupont
I have never said that science should affect the way we should look at philosophy. What i was meant to say was only that "Yes, they where theistic, and no, it has nothing to do with the practise of the virtues" i probably shouldnt have said science, i guess" it just plays a role in the way i look at the old greeks. And their beliefs.. Its probably not relevant for this post, i am sorry for the confusion. And have a nice day
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Dennis Dupont
And sorry for the grammar, i am danish
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Clark Robert
No
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Kalen Berreman
The Stoics of antiquity certainly did.
These days you can be a theist or an atheist.
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Clark Robert
Kalen Berreman ah no you cant be a theist. First it is irrational and second it is immoral and third relies on emotionalism. So theism is out.
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Khyel Walker
Yes, there was a Stoic God. A monotheistic concept, more pantheistic though. They also were involved in the standard religion of their day, but it depends on which Stoic.
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· 1 y
Bruce Macmillan
They were not monotheists. They had many gods.
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Khyel Walker
Bruce Macmillan the Platonic God. It's a monotheistic concept, which does not exclude the pantheon. Hard to understand from a Christian point of view, I know.
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Bruce Macmillan
Khyel Walker Well, I know the ancients entertained all sorts of gods, some of them singular in nature. I think the cult of Mithras was popular with Roman officers. Then there were the Egyptian gods, which some Romans took a shine to. Especially if they were stationed in, or lived in Egypt.
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Lis Moreau
correct grammar please
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Kalen Berreman
Lis Moreau English isn’t everyone’s first language. Be cool.
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Lis Moreau
does??? u mean do?
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· 1 y
Amber Thut
Lookie how smart you are
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Giuseppe Naldi
This question doesn't make sense to me. To believe or not is a personal matter.
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Edited
Lamees Mana
Well Supposed first Stoic philosophers worshiped Zeus , as God of Atoms , and Logos guided the Cosmos .
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· 1 y
Rea Doohan
Yes, they did. Otherwise their philosophy doesn’t make sense.
But their belief in gods had nothing to do with ours monotheistic belief
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5 replies
Oghenevwede Okuma Ogagavwodia
Epictetus made many references to God. Same as the Marcus Aurelius
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· 1 y
Michael Thomas
I only believe in grammar
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· 1 y
Art LeoMag
According to Seneca, as much as Marcus Aurelius, refer the metaphysical inquiry as the LOGOS. It is a transcendental active and changing process what others would call god or gods — to be all knowing it must be changing and evolving like an ongoing primordial fire that sparked itself that would be borrowed by the transcendentalists in the Romantic Age. But to believe in deities like the Hebrew god or Olympian ones was foolish to them, they questioned the nature of fate and providence and completed perfection of all minds or deities of their age
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Tony Grimwood
I have copied this:
In this last extract we see Epictetus refer to the ideal Stoic practice as that of 'following the gods'. This means essentially the same as 'following nature', for God, who is immanent in the world (as the Stoics understand it) is identified with the way the world manifests, so if one follows nature, one must also be following God (see Discourses 1.20.15, 1.30.4, 4.7.20 and 4.10.14).
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Magus Reason
I don't there's any relation.
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· 1 y
Adam Ridley
I think the following is FAKE NEWS
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
but it is true to what I believe in... If a God will put me in an eternal lake of fire for just believing in Mohammad or Buddha or whatever in not right down to the tee right from the Bible God like whatrever even if I am a really damn great person of a Muslim, Buddhist, Homosexual, Pagan whatever then YES I am happy to stand before that God and spit in thou eye.
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3 replies
Raffaele Zagarella
Probably not as we mean it, but scholars have often compared Seneca’s writings, for example, with st Jerome’s
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· 1 y
John Palermo
Yup! God is vital to stoicism, since it's God who puts everything into motion.
Stoics believe in fate, and you cant have fate without god
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· 1 y
John Palermo
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Edwardo Lobo
Why can't you have fate without God?
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John Palermo
Edwardo Lobo Because the Stoics credit God for fate.
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Edwardo Lobo
They may have, but that doesn't support your claim that you can't have fate without God.
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Aida Maria Sanchez
Edwardo Lobo because fate is define as, "the development of events beyond a person's control, regarded as determined by a supernatural
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Ramakanta Rautray
There are stoic believer and stoic non believer in God.
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· 1 y
Edwardo Lobo
Classical Stoics generally believed in a God or Gods but not generally in the way you might think. Some of them literally believed that the main God was Zeus and believed somewhat in the Greek pantheon.
Others used god as a more abstract concept of lo…
See more
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Edited
Ramona Russum
Oh, you can. Not a good one, though
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Cram Nala
is that an external event? or is god within my circle of control? if not then its irrelevant.
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Rea Doohan
You can find interesting texts about stoicism and god in www.thestoicgym.com
or traditionalstoicism.com
THESTOICGYM.COM
The Stoic GymThe Stoic Gym
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Robin James
The idea of the Logos is that of an agnostic god. some called it Zeus and others Nature. In other words some did some did not
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· 1 y
Elliott Fields
God is god, however you define it.
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· 1 y
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Stoic Shane Simbeck
yes. Marcus Aurelius believed the universe was divine and that there is something divine in every human. here's a couple good passages:
https://stoictrader.net/meditations-book-xii-passage-xxi/…
See more
STOICTRADER.NET
"Meditations" Book XII: Passage XXI - StoicTrader"Meditations" Book XII: Passage XXI - StoicTrader
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Stoic Shane Simbeck
stoic bible: https://amzn.to/2tPg28M
AMAZON.COM
MeditationsMeditations
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Sirach Dirac
Epicurus
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· 52 w
Adrian Kelly
Stoics are ignostic. God is a metaphor acording to us. Everything for the collective good guided by the one ultimate authority of the universe. To be in line with nature. GOOD ORDERLY DIRECTION
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· 51 w
Bashir Nadeem
Yes, most of them.
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· 51 w
