https://www.scribd.com/document/151150120/Immortality-by-Stephen-Cave-Reading-Guide
Stephen Cave
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Immortality: The Quest to Live Forever and How It Drives Civilization Paperback – 2 May 2017
by Stephen Cave Sir (Author), Michael Shermer (Foreword)
4.4 out of 5 stars 178 ratings
Hardcover $44.51
Paperback $41.00
"A fascinating history of man's greatest obsession and poses a stunning theory of society."--The Daily Beast
"A must-read exploration of what spurs human ingenuity.... Has changed my view of the driving force of civilization as much as Jared Diamond did years ago with his brilliant book Guns, Germs and Steel."--New Scientist magazine
A fascinating work of popular philosophy and history that both enlightens and entertains, Stephen Cave's Immortality investigates whether it just might be possible to live forever and whether we should want to. But it also makes a powerful argument, which is that it's our very preoccupation with defying mortality that drives civilization.
In drawing back the curtain on what compels humans to "keep on keeping on," Cave engages the reader in a number of mind-bending thought experiments. He teases out the implications of each immortality gambit, asking, for example, how long a person would live if they did manage to acquire a perfectly disease-free body. Or what would happen if a super-being tried to round up the atomic constituents of all who've died in order to resurrect them. Or what our loved ones would really be doing in heaven if it does exist. Or what part of us actually lives in a work of art, and how long that work of art can survive.
Toward the book's end, we're confronted with a series of brain-rattling questions: What would happen if tomorrow humanity discovered that there is no life but this one? Would people continue to care about their favorite sports team, please their boss, vie for the title of Year's Best Salesman? Would three-hundred-year projects still get started?
Immortality is a deeply satisfying book, as optimistic about the human condition as it is insightful about the true arc of history.
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Product description
Review
Immortality by Stephen Cave - Reading Guide 4 pages
pp 1-28
Stephen Cave
Follow
Immortality: The Quest to Live Forever and How It Drives Civilization Paperback – 2 May 2017
by Stephen Cave Sir (Author), Michael Shermer (Foreword)
4.4 out of 5 stars 178 ratings
Hardcover $44.51
Paperback $41.00
"A fascinating history of man's greatest obsession and poses a stunning theory of society."--The Daily Beast
"A must-read exploration of what spurs human ingenuity.... Has changed my view of the driving force of civilization as much as Jared Diamond did years ago with his brilliant book Guns, Germs and Steel."--New Scientist magazine
A fascinating work of popular philosophy and history that both enlightens and entertains, Stephen Cave's Immortality investigates whether it just might be possible to live forever and whether we should want to. But it also makes a powerful argument, which is that it's our very preoccupation with defying mortality that drives civilization.
In drawing back the curtain on what compels humans to "keep on keeping on," Cave engages the reader in a number of mind-bending thought experiments. He teases out the implications of each immortality gambit, asking, for example, how long a person would live if they did manage to acquire a perfectly disease-free body. Or what would happen if a super-being tried to round up the atomic constituents of all who've died in order to resurrect them. Or what our loved ones would really be doing in heaven if it does exist. Or what part of us actually lives in a work of art, and how long that work of art can survive.
Toward the book's end, we're confronted with a series of brain-rattling questions: What would happen if tomorrow humanity discovered that there is no life but this one? Would people continue to care about their favorite sports team, please their boss, vie for the title of Year's Best Salesman? Would three-hundred-year projects still get started?
Immortality is a deeply satisfying book, as optimistic about the human condition as it is insightful about the true arc of history.
===
Product description
Review
"Cave has produced a strikingly original and compelling exploration of the age-old conundrum: Can we live forever, and do we really want to?"
--John Horgan, science journalist and author of The End of War
"Immortality is a fascinating history of man's greatest obsession and poses a stunning theory of society."
--The Daily Beast
"In Immortality Stephen Cave tells wonderful stories about one of humanity's oldest desires and comes to a wise conclusion."
--Stefan Klein, author of The Science of Happiness and The Secret Pulse of Time
"A beautifully clear and entertaining look at life after death. Cave does not shrink from the hard questions. Bold and thought-provoking."
--Eric Olson, author of The Human Animal and What Are We?
"A must-read exploration of what spurs human ingenuity. Every once in a while a book comes along that catches me by surprise and provides me with an entirely new lens through which to view the world. . . . Such is the case with Stephen Cave's book Immortality. . . . Cave presents an extremely compelling case--one that has changed my view of the driving force of civilization as much as Jared Diamond did years ago with his brilliant book Guns, Germs and Steel."
--S. Jay Olshanksy, New Scientist magazine
"Informed and metaphysically nuanced. . . . Cave presents his arguments in a brisk, engaging style, and draws effectively upon a wide-ranging stock of religious, philosophical, and scientific sources, both ancient and contemporary."
--Weekly Standard
"In his survey of the subject, Stephen Cave, a British philosopher, argues that man's various tales of immortality can be boiled down into four basic "narratives". . . . For the aspiring undying, Mr Cave unfortunately concludes that immortality is a mirage. But his demolition project is fascinating in its own right. . . . If anything, readers might want more of Mr. Cave's crisp conversational prose."
--The Economist
"Cave explains how the seeking of immortality is the foundation of human achievement, the wellspring of art, religion and civilization. . . . .The author is rangy and recondite, searching the byways of elixirs, the surprises of alchemy, the faith in engineering and all the wonder to be found in discussions of life and death. . . . Luminous."
--Kirkus Reviews
"A dramatic and frequently surprising story of the pursuit of immortality and its effects on human history."
--Booklist
"Cave is smart, lucid, elegant and original. Immortality is an engaging read about our oldest obsession, and how that obsession propels some of our greatest accomplishments."
--Greg Critser, author of Eternity Soup
"An epic inquiry into the human desire to defy death--and how to overcome it. Cave traces the histories of each of his four immortality narratives through the world's great religions, heroes, leaders, thinkers and stories. It's an epic tale of human folly, featuring a cast of characters including Gilgamesh, Dante, Frankenstein, the King of Qin, Alexander the Great and the Dalai Lama. Cave, a Berlin-based writer and former diplomat, is an admirably clear elucidator, stripping down arguments to their essences and recounting them without any unnecessary jargon."
--The Financial Times
"Immortality plumbs the depths of the human mind and ties the quest for the infinite prolongation of life into the very nature of civilization itself. Cave reveals remarkable depth and breadth of learning, yet is always a breeze to read. I thoroughly enjoyed his book--it's a really intriguing study."
--David Boyd Haycock, author of Mortal Coil and A Crisis of Brilliance
"[Cave's] sort of nonfiction writing is exciting. It gets the juices flowing and draws one into the material. What Cave does so well throughout Immortality is to take the reader by the hand and carefully guide her or him through each concept, ensuring understanding before exploring assorted variations and difficulties. He's writing for searchers, not people collecting knock 'em-dead refutations of positions they've already rejected. And his appeal is to intellectual curiosity."
--The Humanist
"I loved this. Cave has set himself an enormous task and accomplished it--in spades. Establishing a four-level subject matter, he has stuck to his guns and never let up. As he left one level and went to the next, I was always a little worried: Would he be able to pull it off? This was especially true as he approached the end. There is a sense in which each level, as he left it smoking in the road, looked easy as he started the next. In fact, the last level, while it is the most difficult, is the best, the most satisfying. I am happy to live in the world Cave describes."
--Charles Van Doren, author of A History of Knowledge
"This book by Stephen Cave offers a helpful framework for understanding the various different kinds of immortality. Cave employs this framework to analyze these types of immortality and to argue that the quest for immortality is misguided. Cave's insights throughout the book are deep, and his argumentation is compelling and well-informed by all of the relevant literature. It is also a beautifully written and highly accessible book. I recommend it highly."
--John Martin Fischer leader of the Templeton Foundation's Immortality Project, and author of Near-Death Experiences
About the Author
Michael Shermer is the publisher of Skeptic magazine, a monthly columnist for Scientific American, and a presidential fellow at Chapman University. His books include: Why People Believe Weird Things, The Science of Good and Evil, Why Darwin Matters, The Believing Brain, and The Moral Arc. His next book is Heavens on Earth: The Quest for Immortality and Perfectibility.
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Product details
Publisher : Skyhorse Publishing; Reprint edition (2 May 2017)
Language : English
Paperback : 344 pages
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5.0 out of 5 stars An Everlasting Book! Fantastic!
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 8 April 2012
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Immortality: The Quest to Live Forever and How it Drives Civilization by Stephen Cave
" Immortality" is the fascinating and thought-provoking book about life, death and civilization. It's about humankind's quest by one or a combination of four paths that promise immortality and whether any of these paths can deliver on that promise. Finally, with the newfound wisdom it's about following a philosophy of life that provides us with a meaningful existence. Stephen Cave holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Cambridge University and a writer who skillfully provides the reader with a gem of a book that is enlightening and a joy to read. This 338-page book is broken out into four parts that correspond to the four narratives of immortality and a conclusion: Part I. Staying Alive, Part II. Resurrection, Part II. Soul, and Part IV. Legacy.
Positives:
1. A well written, accessible book for the masses.
2. A mesmerizing topic: immortality. The author treats the topic with utmost care and respect.
3. A fantastic format that follows logically with the author's overall thesis.
4. The four immortality narratives: Staying Alive, Resurrection, Soul, and Legacy. The entire book revolves around these four main paths.
5. The author clearly presents three main goals upfront and thoroughly succeeds in achieving them.
6. Each chapter begins with an interesting historical vignette in which the author highlights the main topic of the chapter.
7. In the first path of immortality the author goes through a number of examples that clearly show how the determination to stay alive and reproduce is one thing that all life forms have in common.
8. The Morality Paradox. The immortality narratives were created to resolve the paradox.
9. Great use of secular, religious and scientific viewpoints to go through all the arguments. Great stuff!
10. Thought-provoking quotes and ideas: "These psychologists were testing the hypothesis that we have developed our cultural worldviews in order to protect ourselves from the fear of death". Interesting.
11. The author goes through various and diverse civilizations to explain his thesis. Thus keeping the book fresh and interesting. "Civilization is built on the promise of immortality".
12. Attempts to engineer immortality. The Engineering Approach to immortality. Transhumanists...
13. The significance of resurrection and the three major problems with it.
14. The impact of Paul to Christianity.
15. The importance of rituals, "This is the function of religion at its grandest: enabling mere mortals to attain cosmic significance, to become one with their gods and so to attain immortality."
16. Cryonics, interesting stuff.
17. My favorite section of the book, the thorough debunking of the soul.
18. The idea of the soul, its claims and the implications.
19. The history and evolution of the concept of the soul. From soul to self...
20. The argument from neuroscience against the existence of the soul.
21. The concepts of heaven.
22. Scientific and religious looks at the soul. Eastern and Western religions.
23. Legacy what it means and how it is achieved. Great examples.
24. Great quotes, "Jean Rostand wrote in 1939, "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
25. Fascinating facts, " By spring 2011, Facebook, had over 600 million active users and counting."
26. The "bundle theory" of the self and the problems associated with it.
27. Nation's myth of common ancestry.
28. Planet Earth, the biggest superorganism, Gaia. Global consciousness.
29. The author does a wonderful job of summarizing his finding into a satisfying conclusion.
30. A positive, secular outlook to death. The Wisdom Narrative.
31. Some great closing thoughts that will stick with me, " This is no doubt why medieval European rulers found Christianity so useful--it taught their exploited subjects to avert their eyes from the horror of their daily lives and dream instead of a future paradise."
32. How these narratives contribute to what our civilizations are.
33. A look at the impact of infinity. Enlightening.
34. The three virtues on our view of life and death.
35. A page turner of a book.
Negatives:
1. No formal bibliography.
2. A notes section was provided but it was not linked to the body of the book.
3. The author overstays his welcome a tad with the last chapter. That is, it was too long and started becoming preachy but if that's the worst thing I can find about this book well you know you got yourself a gem.
4. Charts and illustrations would have added value. For example, a chart illustrating the worldview on immortality would have been welcomed.
In summary, I really enjoyed this book. First of all, this is philosophy at its best. It asks the big questions and it follows a path that is logical and reasonable. It tackles fascinating topics surrounding immortality and it ends with a satisfying conclusion. My favorite part of this book was Part III. The Soul; finally, an author who spends some time addressing the soul in a comprehensive manner. This book was a real treat for me, treat yourself and get it! I highly recommend it.
Further suggestions: " Physics of the Future: How Science Will Shape Human Destiny and Our Daily Lives by the Year 2100 " by Michio Kaku, " Paranormality: Why we see what isn't there " by Richard Wiseman, " Scientific Paranormal Investigation: How to Solve Unexplained Mysteries " by Benjamin Radford, " The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark " by Carl Sagan, " The Believing Brain: From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies---How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths " and " Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time " by Michael Shermer, " The Problem Of The Soul: Two Visions Of Mind And How To Reconcile Them " by Owen Flanagan, " God Soul Mind Brain: A Neuroscientist's Reflections on the Spirit World (LeapSci) " by Michael S. A. Graziano, " The Brain and the Meaning of Life " by Paul Thagard, and " The Belief Instinct: The Psychology of Souls, Destiny, and the Meaning of Life " by Jesse Bering.
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T. Fort, PhD
4.0 out of 5 stars Like any other unprovable assumption
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 1 September 2014
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Stephen Cave's book on Immortality deserves to be read and digested by anyone who sincerely wonders about the possibility of a post-death existence. According to Cave, that would be nearly all of us. Those who have already drawn a conclusion based on whatever belief system they have should stay away, given that they want to preserve their belief system. Cave methodically picks apart then discards each of the four major immortality narratives one by one.
However, he may be wrong. His scientific biases show up throughout the book and his materialism assumption is ever-present. I would have preferred an upfront admission of his underlying premise that scientific materialism is the only valid source of knowledge. Like any other unprovable assumption, regardless of how rational it may feel, it requires a large measure of faith in it to move forward with whatever argument one is weaving.
While Cave does a nice job of presenting each immortality narrative, at the end it seems that he set up four strawmen in order to knock them down and to present his fifth narrative, the Wisdom Narrative, as the champion. He may not be entirely wrong but it's a bit transparent.
That said, it is easy to agree with Cave that the Resurrection Narrative has exhausted any currency it may have once had in our collective cultures. Likewise, it is not difficult to accept the Legacy Narrative as a poor proxy for immortality. However, it is a bit surprising that he so easily dismisses the Staying Alive narrative, since it is fundamentally based on scientific materialism and perhaps offers the greatest hope for the possibility of immortality, if not at least a sufficient extension of life to make it feel like one could be immortal and perhaps even have the ultimate freedom - the choice to decide when to die.
This seems to be the Achilles Heel of the book, as the inconsistency is apparent. On one hand, he acknowledges the progress that science has made to extend life and as noted earlier, much of his positioning is based on scientific materialism. And he encourages the researchers to continue trying to "buy us a few more years." Yet, he also states that while science is allowing humans to live longer, they then only suffer from the diseases associated with old age. Does science have nothing to say or do regarding the eradication of these diseases much like other diseases that have been eradicated? Does science have nothing to say or do about increasing our understanding of the aging process?
It seems somewhat arrogant to assert that the "longevity escape velocity" (living long enough to be able to live forever once science has it figured out) is rubbish, given today's science. Who knows what we will discover in another 200 years regarding life extension, eradication of diseases, and reversing the aging process. Technology advances apace.
Finally, the Soul Narrative is quickly dismissed perhaps because it simply does not fit with a scientific materialism assumption. There is good rationale to assert that brain equals mind from the neuroscience literature. It seems correct that mind (and thus, personality) cannot live on because it is dependent on brain for functionality. But the claim that there can be no more, does not logically follow.
The idea of a life force, or energy source, or Qi, has been around for millennia. The first law of thermodynamics is the Law of Conservation of Energy, which clearly states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can change form. At death where does that life energy go? Does it change form? The animus that energizes each life must transform into something else if the Law of Conservation of Energy is correct.
The acquisition of knowledge is not single-threaded. Science is not the only source of knowledge; experience produces knowledge for each of us each day. Experience is the most immediate source of knowledge and is as valid to the scientist as the data he receives and interprets from research. For those who have experienced the sight of a dead person (e.g., at a wake or open-casket funeral), it is abundantly clear that the energy that gave life to that same living person is now gone. Wherefore did it go? Who knows? But if the Law of Conservation of Energy is correct, it was not simply destroyed at death. This side of the Soul Narrative argument is missing from Dr. Cave's analysis but that may be because it did not serve his larger purpose.
That purpose is to put forward a Wisdom Narrative in which he admonishes us to quit worrying about death and immortality and instead start cultivating gratitude, mindfulness, and collectivism as life principles. These ideas are not new and philosophers have been telling us how to live the good life since Socrates. It is hard to deny that living life more gratefully, in the present moment, and in greater connection with others is a good thing.
I recommend Cave's book because it creates an interesting dialogue and makes one contemplate what the future holds for each of us. Will science allow me to live long enough to have more choices about my health and ultimately my death? What really does happen at that moment when the me that I have always known extinguishes? Personal answers to these existential questions will depend on the unprovable assumptions we hold and the degree of faith we have in those assumptions.
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Show-Me Skeptic
4.0 out of 5 stars The author presents very good arguments showing there is no soul
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 23 January 2015
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A very well-written book. The author presents very good arguments showing there is no soul, no reincarnation and no immortality.
For example, Chapter 7: “The Lost Soul”
Pages 186-187.
If your optic nerves in your brain are sufficiently badly damaged, you will no longer be able to see –- you will go blind. This tells us very clearly that the faculty of sight is dependent upon functioning optic nerves. Yet curiously, when many people imagine their soul leaving their body, they imagine being able to see -– they imagine, for example, looking down on their own corpse or on their own funeral procession. They believe, therefore, that their immaterial soul has the faculty of sight. But if the soul can see when the entire brain and body have stopped working, why can’t it see when only the optic nerves have stopped working? In other words, if blind people have a soul that can see, why are they blind?
This question has no satisfactory answer, and indeed some thoughtful theologians, such as Thomas Aquinas, have accepted that a soul without a body cannot see -– seeing is something that is done by a body and brain with eyes and optic nerves in working order.
But we now know that, just as damage to the optic nerve can destroy the faculty of sight, so damage to other parts of the brain can destroy faculties like memory and reason. Increasingly, evidence suggests that all aspects of the mind and personality are in this way dependent on the brain. So, paralleling our question about the blind person, we can ask about someone with brain damage who is unable to think rationally or feel emotions:
“If they actually have a soul that is able to think rationally or feel emotions, why can’t they think rationally or feel emotions? Why would localized brain damage stand in the way when destruction of the whole brain and body does not?”
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GDP
3.0 out of 5 stars Wisdom Literature?
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 13 June 2012
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'Immortality' by Stephen Cave is an okay book that most thoughtful people should enjoy and benefit from reading assuming they accept the author's caveat in the preface, "it was my intention to keep the book short and succinct" and where he admits to "simplifications of complex debates." This warning spares us the quibbles and objections inevitably arising from a 288-page gloss of "life, death and civilization."
Presumably a reader will come to the text with some preconceived beliefs and may therefore take exception to Cave's rather abrupt dismissal of any notion of immortality.
Believers in a faith that includes a form of resurrection (largely all the Abrahamic religions) may become uneasy with his blithe association of resurrection with Mary Shelley's 'Frankenstein', and all of which are discarded by Cave by means of 'the Cannibal Problem', 'the Transformation Problem' or 'the Duplication Problem'. (Nobody knows the problems he's seen.)
On the other hand believers that the ultimate salvation is available through technology and science (see Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World ) may cringe at his quick dismissal of that prospect for immortality. (Personally, I was relieved to learn I would not be subjected to watching a 1,030 year old Bruce Springsteen perform at halftime of Super Bowl MXIV.)
The existence of souls and immortality through achievement receive similar shrift. Essentially all belief in immortality is subjected to the treatment we have come to expect from smug, secular British intellectuals for whom life holds no mystery.
All is not lost, however, as Cave proposes a basis for a rewarding life by relying upon ancient Wisdom Literature as a guide. You know, like the Book of Job, "On earth there is not his like, a creature without fear. He sees everything that is high; he is king over all the sons of pride." (Job 41: 33-34), or the Book of Isaiah, "Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!" (Isaiah 5: 21). Cave's suggestion to use Wisdom Literature as a guide to living is an example of the 'Confused Author Problem' (call him Ishmael).
This is a worthwhile book to read if you have some spare time, even if (or particularly IF) you disagree with the author. Unexamined or unchallenged faith hardly counts as faith at all.
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Marc E. Nicholson
5.0 out of 5 stars Reality about mortality...and a bit of comfort about it
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 3 January 2022
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The author carefully defines the several different versions/visions of immortality which humans have imagined in a millennial-long effort to defeat death, and he effectively by logic demolishes all of them. In the last chapter he gives reason for us to accept mortality and to be grateful for the lives we have had, brief though they may be. It's an uncomfortable book for those who ardently cling to the hope of an afterlife, but it's also a very humane book for those who do not share that hope or who at least have doubts. A brilliantly written book....not by a theologian or philosopher, but by a former diplomat...i.e. a practical man of the world.
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Mark Limke
5.0 out of 5 stars Terrific book, but the Kindle version is screwed up
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 10 March 2020
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I am just finishing the library's copy of this book, and I want to own it, it is so good. I literally NEED to highlight it and mull parts of it over.
I was pleased to find the Kindle version for $8, so I bought it. Then tragedy struck.
I thought I'd read the last five or ten "pages" on Kindle, despite still having the hard copy in hand. I was SO disappointed to find the same section, I think it was The Wisdom Narrative, repeated at least three times, but in varying ways.
I checked hard copy, and it's only there once. And it's not just that section, it's the part before it. The word "finitude" kind of sticks out at the end of the prior section, so it's hard to miss.
With this bad luck, i just returned the eBook for a refund. I'll look for it at Half-Price Books or waiting until it goes on sale here. I like it but not enough to pay full price. I"m very disappointed more effort wasn't put into proofing the eBook. You're still charging money for it.
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Karen
5.0 out of 5 stars Great read!
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 27 April 2022
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I’ve always doubted the existence of an afterlife. This book affirmed my doubts & I thoroughly enjoyed all the history Mr. Cave provides. Humans are an interesting species, that’s for sure!
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Robert
4.0 out of 5 stars How religion and governments have exploited the desire for immotality--'which has also advanced civilization
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 2 January 2018
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If you ponder the cosmos and universe, the book will confirm what you should think about your mortality------and religion, which it slams for exploiting the fear of death. It is irrational to appreciate the universe and think we are important.
I fault the author for not considering the ethical questions arising from reproducing when he notes how risky life is to make his points on not fearing death. He concedes that we are gene carriers which only care that we live long enough to reproduce more genes and that the drive to reproduce is not just bad for the world but just as irrational as the fear of death. If we are born to die, are there ethical factors in creating new life? He ignores this while admitting having children for immortality is a self delusion, therefore ethically questionable.
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Anthony Pierri
4.0 out of 5 stars The four immortality narratives vs. the wisdom narrative
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 19 January 2018
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The basic argument of the book is that there are four narratives that we use to deal with the mortality paradox (e.g. we know objectively that we are going to die, but subjectively we don't believe it) and that none of these narratives can make us immortal or effectively help us deal with our own impending doom. The four narratives are 1. Staying alive 2. Bodily resurrection 3. The soul 4. Legacy. The author suggests we instead follow the "wisdom narrative" that tells us 1. we need not fear death because we will not "experience" it at all and 2. eternal life would actually be a curse. Living as a mortal gives us a scarcity mentality that allows us to enjoy and value our lives. We should therefore spend our time thinking less of ourselves, helping others, and practicing gratitude.
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Velho
5.0 out of 5 stars Speaking personally, a great book
Reviewed in the United States 🇺🇸 on 17 May 2013
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I'm not a professional book reviewer and usually make no attempt to review the many books I read. But this book compels me to write a brief review. Sixty years ago my grandmother, after the loss of her mate of 60+ years, told me she had had twice read the Bible from cover to cover and then she said to me that she had given almost constant thought to what death was. And her conclusion, after four years of study and thought, was that "when you're dead, you're dead." This is the same premise and conclusion that Stephen Cave starts with and concludes in this book. But in developing this premise and arriving at this conclusion, he entertains the reader by developing tightly-reasoned arguments to support the premise and conclusion. If you are an Atheist, an Agnostic, you will likely greatly enjoy this book. If you are dogmatically religious, you might as well not buy/read the book because you will reject the premise and the conclusion from the outset and likely toss the book in the trash. Speaking personally, I think it is great book.
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April 9, 2012
Immortality: The Quest to Live Forever and How it Drives Civilization by Stephen Cave
" Immortality" is the fascinating and thought-provoking book about life, death and civilization. It's about humankind's quest by one or a combination of four paths that promise immortality and whether any of these paths can deliver on that promise. Finally, with the newfound wisdom it's about following a philosophy of life that provides us with a meaningful existence. Stephen Cave holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Cambridge University and a writer who skillfully provides the reader with a gem of a book that is enlightening and a joy to read. This 338-page book is broken out into four parts that correspond to the four narratives of immortality and a conclusion: Part I. Staying Alive, Part II. Resurrection, Part II. Soul, and Part IV. Legacy.
Positives:
1. A well written, accessible book for the masses.
2. A mesmerizing topic: immortality. The author treats the topic with utmost care and respect.
3. A fantastic format that follows logically with the author's overall thesis.
4. The four immortality narratives: Staying Alive, Resurrection, Soul, and Legacy. The entire book revolves around these four main paths.
5. The author clearly presents three main goals upfront and thoroughly succeeds in achieving them.
6. Each chapter begins with an interesting historical vignette in which the author highlights the main topic of the chapter.
7. In the first path of immortality the author goes through a number of examples that clearly show how the determination to stay alive and reproduce is one thing that all life forms have in common.
8. The Morality Paradox. The immortality narratives were created to resolve the paradox.
9. Great use of secular, religious and scientific viewpoints to go through all the arguments. Great stuff!
10. Thought-provoking quotes and ideas: "These psychologists were testing the hypothesis that we have developed our cultural worldviews in order to protect ourselves from the fear of death". Interesting.
11. The author goes through various and diverse civilizations to explain his thesis. Thus keeping the book fresh and interesting. "Civilization is built on the promise of immortality".
12. Attempts to engineer immortality. The Engineering Approach to immortality. Transhumanists...
13. The significance of resurrection and the three major problems with it.
14. The impact of Paul to Christianity.
15. The importance of rituals, "This is the function of religion at its grandest: enabling mere mortals to attain cosmic significance, to become one with their gods and so to attain immortality."
16. Cryonics, interesting stuff.
17. My favorite section of the book, the thorough debunking of the soul.
18. The idea of the soul, its claims and the implications.
19. The history and evolution of the concept of the soul. From soul to self...
20. The argument from neuroscience against the existence of the soul.
21. The concepts of heaven.
22. Scientific and religious looks at the soul. Eastern and Western religions.
23. Legacy what it means and how it is achieved. Great examples.
24. Great quotes, "Jean Rostand wrote in 1939, “Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god.”
25. Fascinating facts, " By spring 2011, Facebook, had over 600 million active users and counting."
26. The "bundle theory" of the self and the problems associated with it.
27. Nation's myth of common ancestry.
28. Planet Earth, the biggest superorganism, Gaia. Global consciousness.
29. The author does a wonderful job of summarizing his finding into a satisfying conclusion.
30. A positive, secular outlook to death. The Wisdom Narrative.
31. Some great closing thoughts that will stick with me, " This is no doubt why medieval European rulers found Christianity so useful—it taught their exploited subjects to avert their eyes from the horror of their daily lives and dream instead of a future paradise."
32. How these narratives contribute to what our civilizations are.
33. A look at the impact of infinity. Enlightening.
34. The three virtues on our view of life and death.
35. A page turner of a book.
Negatives:
1. No formal bibliography.
2. A notes section was provided but it was not linked to the body of the book.
3. The author overstays his welcome a tad with the last chapter. That is, it was too long and started becoming preachy but if that's the worst thing I can find about this book well you know you got yourself a gem.
4. Charts and illustrations would have added value. For example, a chart illustrating the worldview on immortality would have been welcomed.
In summary, I really enjoyed this book. First of all, this is philosophy at its best. It asks the big questions and it follows a path that is logical and reasonable. It tackles fascinating topics surrounding immortality and it ends with a satisfying conclusion. My favorite part of this book was Part III. The Soul; finally, an author who spends some time addressing the soul in a comprehensive manner. This book was a real treat for me, treat yourself and get it! I highly recommend it.
Further suggestions: "Physics of the Future" by Michio Kaku, "Paranormality" by Richard Wiseman, "Scientific Paranormal Investigation" by Benjamin Radford, "Demon-Haunted Word" by Carl Sagan, "The Believing Brain" and "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer, "The Problem of the Soul" by Owen Flanagan, "God Soul Mind Brain" by Michael S. A. Graziano, "The Brain and the Meaning of Life" by Paul Thagard, "The Belief Instinct" by Jesse Bering, and "Human" by Michael S. Gazzaniga.
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Andrés Astudillo
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February 17, 2023
One of those books you won't forget. Cave explains four narratives that are wide spread in every mythos throughout the history of mankind, the four narratives are: Staying alive, Resurrection, Soul and Legacy. All of them are mentioned in every myth, from Gilgamesh to Buddhism, from Islam to Zoroastrism, and they all are a by product of our (in Ernest Becker's words) "fear of death". We all are a product of evolution, and we are the descendants of people who managed to -stay alive- (even though they all died) by being anxious of the future, and by fearing death.
However, the world today, is not the same as it was one hundred thousand years ago.
We are the first ones to actually understand nature, in every aspect: we can explain childbirth, love, the universe, and genetics, and for the first time ever, we live longer as we've never had.
He proposes a fifth narrative, "Wisdom narrative", based on science and deeply stoic, recommends each and every one of three ways to apply it: identify with others, focus on the present, and gratitude.
The most lovely thing about this, is that it is not a -new age- kinda thing; it is the way in which we can appreciate life, and not just human life, but any life. I have a son, a little dog. There were times in which I thought about him living no more than 20 years, and I couldnt stop crying. After reading this, I have those emotions still around, but at the same time I just cherish every moment with him; instead of sitting and reading, I take the book, put it aside, and just lie beside him and tell him that I love him. I want him to remember, and I want to remember that after he's gone someday, I told him that I really loved him. We keep lives that are gone alive by remembering them.
The book gave my tattoo "memento mori" an even more powerful meaning.
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Audrey
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July 8, 2014
Finally, someone has put in context my existential angst (which I have written about on my blog).
Beyond that, Stephen Cave has provided hope to those of us who simply cannot buy into any of what he calls the four "immortality narratives:" staying alive, resurrection, soul, and legacy.
The book leads the reader on a fascinating journey through the history of philosophical thought as it relates to death and our quest for immortality. Cave uses stories--mostly of history and mythology--to bring his points alive and keep the book moving. Every major religion, he argues, from Taoism to Christianity, can be seen as a vehicle for one or more immortality narratives. He also looks at what modern biology and neuroscience have contributed to the discussion. His central idea is that while individuals' quest for immortality has driven much of civilization's progress, it has also resulted in enormous harm, causing many to focus on the preservation of self at the expense of others and giving rise to the fatalistic view that the circumstances of our lives on earth are predetermined or not worth attending to (since they are only a sliver of the eternity we will experience).
If this were the only thing the book accomplished, that would be a lot. But for someone like me, who has found herself on more than one occasion smack up against the pure terror of contemplating her own end--without the succor of religious belief to ease my anxiety--Cave does more. He offers a pathway to those who know in their hearts that immortality is impossible and yet still suffer the very human fear of death. Although the path he describes is reached through the intellect and not through the senses, it leads to some very concrete daily actions that can alleviate this suffering. And I was gratified to know that this path, which he calls the "wisdom narrative," is awfully close to the one I arrived at intuitively and which he sums up neatly at the book's end: "All we can ever know is life, and by accepting that it is finite, we can also know how to treasure it."
In short, this is a wonderful read if you enjoy pondering the big questions.
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Andrew
23 books · 50 followers
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June 17, 2012
It is nature, after all, that decrees that we must die—that causes our joints to seize up, our skin to wrinkle and cancer to strike. In order to live forever, we must, like the gods, rise above these natural limits. This therefore is the grand project of science, its answer to the Mortality Paradox: death and disease might be what nature intends for us, but we can master nature and thwart her plans. The founding fathers of the scientific method were quite explicit about this. René Descartes, for example, talked openly of seeking knowledge that would “render ourselves the lords and possessors of nature” and was considered by his contemporaries to be obsessed with the extension of life. And Francis Bacon pursued what he considered this “most noble goal” of life extension to his death—in 1626 from pneumonia, which he contracted when experimenting with the use of snow to preserve corpses. Throughout its history, science has sought to make life unending and death reversible.
***
As unjustifiably fearful as we are of the differences between us—the different colours of our skins, differences of religion, of politics, of sexuality and attraction—we, as humans, are most fearful of the one thing, the only thing, that all of us have in common: we are going to die. We don’t like it, we certainly don’t look forward to it, and given the gluttonous amount of late-night infomercials peddling stay-young-and-fit skin creams and homeopathic remedies, we’ll leap at any opportunity—no matter how deep into the red it spikes our bullshit radars—to cheat our way out of an early grave. Kevin Trudeau has made a living off of this fear (and several get-rich-quick schemes), as have so many doctors, scientists, philosophers, and religious leaders. Author Stephen Cave, however, wants you to understand both sides to the immortality coin.
Cave’s Immortality: The Quest to Live Forever and How it Drives Civilization is a surprisingly modest analysis of the myths, legends, and facts surrounding immortality and how the ambition to live forever has crossed all historical and cultural barriers.
By modest I don’t mean bereft of detail, rather that Cave recites his thesis without unnecessary hyperbole, presenting his topic with an academic’s attention to detail. Divided into four sections for the four families of thought regarding immortality—Staying Alive, Resurrection, Soul, and Legacy—Cave employs a wide breadth of examples—from the Egyptians, Alexander the Great, and The Epic of Gilgamesh, to more recent pioneers in the quest for immortality like Aubrey de Grey and Ray Kurzweil—to bridge the fact-fiction gap.
The strength of Immortality is Cave’s willingness to present the dark reality to the search for humanity’s literal Holy Grail. The yearning one feels to live forever is a desire born of ignorance; because forever isn’t several lifetimes, or a few dozen, even. It’s all of them. It’s billions and billions of years, until the heat death of the universe or the Big Crunch or something equally disastrous and capable of annihilating all life on Earth and every other life-sustaining rock in the universe comes to pass.
The pursuit of immortality has given rise to entire industries and religious sects, but the advancements of thought and faith and science represented therein are born from the carrot on a stick that will most likely never be within our reach. The mummification of bodies, the Christ resurrection myths, and so many similar folktales and established belief structures have promised a life beyond this one, or a continuation thereof, but we remain, to this day, without proof. In fact, only the Legacy branch of the quest for immortality holds any weight, as evidenced by the stories still told of Alexander the Great, past Presidents of the United States, of celebrities and figures of some notoriety that have lived on in narrative if not in flesh. Though arguably a form of immortality, it’s difficult, when all is said and done, to see where the benefit lies for the dead who, despite the lasting impact they’ve had on the world, are still very much worm food. And like such legacies, immortality is a story beyond tangibility.
But what of the future? Of digitally mapping the mind, uploading one’s consciousness into a clone or a synthetic avatar of some kind? That presupposes that the mind and what makes us human are memories and thought patterns. Even if that were the case, death would still inevitably take each and every one of us—a mind could theoretically be copied and mapped to the body of another, but the original, soul or no soul, would still have ceased operating and thus moved on to whatever’s next, or nothing at all.
As a natural extension of itself, of the severe longing at its unobtainable core, the pursuit of immortality is indeed a tragic one. Cave, who holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy, makes no attempts to lessen the oft-neglected gravity of the search and the likely impossibility of actually achieving immortality. In the end, he suggests the pursuit of immortality is a life-wasting quest in more ways than one. Yes, the time and energy spent on such a quest is in and of itself a waste, but there remains the possibility, far reaching though it may be, that the impossible may one day become a reality. If that were to happen, our lives would slow, grinding to a halt, because it is the fear of death, the “dread that, on our deathbed, we might look back on a wasted life” that pushes us ever forward, to realizing our true potential. “The clock that steals a second of our lives with every tick reminds us that the time to act is now. In other words: death is the source of all our deadlines.”
Immortality is never weighted down by the magnitude of its central topic, or by the almost universally faith-based set of ideologies that form the basis of Cave’s thesis. Instead, it offers a reasoned, sober series of conversations, both debunking the myths and legends of the immortality quest, and encouraging new thoughts and ideas to be brought to the forefront. Though it is likely a search for the impossible, and though our attempts to discover the key to our immortal souls remains a mystery, it’s the nature of the search that will invariably push us to one day realize our full potential—to extend our temporary, tangible lives as far into the future as possible.
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Louise Armstrong
30 books · 15 followers
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January 11, 2016
This was an interesting read - he divided up our desire to live for ever (despite not knowing what to do with ourselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon) into 4 segments: Staying Alive keep taking the vitamins and jog so fast Death can't catch you; Resurrection, believe the body will rise again; have a Soul that lives forever; commit Famous Deeds that will live forever. He also shows how the Egyptians were a fascinating culture because they practised all four.
He tries to suggest that a fifth way of wisdom is emerging, and that we won't mind being dead because we won't be there. Trouble is, no matter how persuasive his arguments, and I found them very persuasive for say, resurrection of the body, which I've never believed in, even though I was taught by nuns who did, he didn't move me on my belief in the soul. I agree it's a mystery, but I persist in believing that my mind functions like a mobile phone or computer, and it's something else that animates it.
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Clark Hays
16 books · 130 followers
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April 14, 2012
Spoiler alert: We're all gonna die.
It's a given. There's an expiration date stamped in barely legible ink somewhere on our persons. Even though we can’t see it, we can feel it. We know it’s there. And yet as a species, we humans go to great lengths to convince ourselves it doesn’t apply. The tension that exists between the reality of this and the mental contortions we go through to create imaginary escape routes to avoid acceptance, according to author Stephen Cave, is the engine that powers civilization, literature, art, science and everything in between.
Cave, a philosopher and all around man of letters, ambles through history — focused primarily on the ancient Greeks and ancient Christians, with a little Gilgamesh thrown in for good measure — to examine what he considers the four most common strategies, or narratives, humans have devised to cheat death. He carefully explains each, then just carefully disassembles them, exposing the logical fallacies that should be enough to give any rational person pause.
It's a fun and fast-reading romp filled with interesting asides, great quotes from brilliant minds and swirling eddies of thought that never forces the reader to dive too deep. That's a shame, because I really wanted it too. I wanted more analysis of some of the almost casual asides that I found so powerful. Civilization as a by-product of death avoidance? Yes please, can I have some more?
The long build up and dismissal of the four traditional paths — a full three quarters of the book — eventually leads readers to a fifth way, as described by the author. Getting to that fifth way was the reason I kept reading, only to find it was explained in one short chapter. It was decent enough philosophic foreplay but an unsatisfying climax. The fifth way deserved an equally detailed compiling of anecdotal evidence, a deeper explanation of how it might work and examples from history that could bring it to life.
Still, I liked this book, though occasionally grew frustrated at the surface treatment only to get pulled deeper on subsequent pages, sometimes unintentionally. I read it to try and better understand immortality as it applies to the vampire mythos (for my own writing) and actually enjoyed it well beyond research. I only hope the author comes out with a companion book that spends as much time and care on a method of living fully, meaningfully and thoughtfully without worrying about death.
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Raed
245 reviews · 56 followers
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July 20, 2021
My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare ,
The lone and level sands stretch far away
No matter how great our glory, it could only ever be a postponement of oblivion ...
This book will do three things: First, it will show that beneath the apparent diversity of stories about how immortality is to be attained. there are just four basic forms :
* Simply Staying Alive
* The Resurrection
* The Soul
* The Legacy
The second aim of this book is to show how the efforts to clear these four paths and prepare for the ascent up the Mount of the Immortals have thrown up what we know as civilization—the institutions, rituals and beliefs that make human existence what it is.
The third thing this book will do is draw on new insights to examine which of these four narratives have a real prospect of taking us to where we might live forever.
Can there be progress, justice and culture if we know that all our efforts will end in dust? This is the main question of the author.
I think that everyone seeks the eternity should take the advice of the Young woman, maker of wine in the Epic of Gilgamesh :
-“What’s up, stranger?” she asked, handing him a beer
-“I was a king,” he said... “I seek the one who survived the flood, Utnapishtim, the one they say is
immortal, that I might learn his secret. Tell me, where can I find him?”
-“Then you must be Gilgamesh,” replied the barmaid. “But don’t you see, immortality is not for the likes of us.
The life that you seek you never will find:
when the gods created mankind ,
death they dispensed to mankind ,
life they kept for themselves .
But you, Gilgamesh, let your belly be full ,
enjoy yourself always by day and by night!
Make merry each day ,
dance and play day and night!
Let your clothes be clean ,
let your head be washed, may you bathe in water!
Gaze on the child who holds your hand ,
let your wife enjoy your repeated embrace!”
Really an interesting read
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Shawn
227 reviews · 20 followers
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December 27, 2012
I would have to characterize the majority of this book as the juvenile philosophical ravings of an apparent atheist, intent upon elevating the limited physical perceptions of modern humanity into universal truths. This author seems caught in the same quagmire that binds many atheists: that being an inability to understand that the five human senses are capable of perceiving only a minute portion of all that is. Hence, confining ones religious sensibilities to only what has been revealed by science leaves one … well … “confined”.
This book explores four aspects of humanity that the author perceives as “strivings for immortality”, they are: (1) trying to stay alive, (2) physical resurrection, (3) belief in the soul, and (4) establishing a legacy. While this book offers some entertaining insight into each one of these human endeavors, the overall theme is callous and ultimately pessimistic.
Under the first of the authors perceptions, that of trying to stay alive, he expounds upon how civilization succeeds in perpetuating human existence and discusses the development of an immortality elixir, drug, or potion that would extend life indefinitely. But the question then becomes: how do you avoid overpopulation and how would you determine who to immortalize and who not? Here I think this author misses the perfect parallel to the religious question. If we had such an elixir, would we immortalize fools and evil people? It is quite reasonable to expect that such an elixir would be reserved for those who love life so much as to believe in refraining from those actions, or sins, that diminish it. The author quotes the novelist Susan Ertz in saying: “Millions long for immortality who don’t know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon”.
Under the second perception, that of resurrection, the author explores the nature of physical resurrection, citing as an example the disciple “doubting Thomas”, to whom Jesus invited to put his finger into his nail wounds or the wound in his side; and the report that Jesus actually ate after being resurrected. Here the author has an atheistic heyday in citing all the reasons why it is untenable to believe in physical resurrection because a physical body will deteriorate. In my opinion, this author fails to recognize that, even while we are alive, the atoms that compose us are constantly changing. Cells are constantly dying and new ones grown. We are not the exact same physical self that we were a year ago, a month ago, or even yesterday. The contention that the physical self is somehow static is untenable and I do not believe widely held.
The author’s third perception is that of the soul, or that of continuing independent of the physical body, or that we transcend mere biology. Invariably, atheists such as this author, just can’t seem to remember that what humanity knows as science is but a minuscule percentage of all that can be known. To reject God and the afterlife on such a minuscule foundation is just plain foolish.
Yet, from the author’s ramblings, we are ultimately able to synthesize some things for ourselves. We must question that if a soul is indeed ultimately able to occupy any environment of its choosing, its ability to attain bliss is limited only by the range of its perceptions. A soul that has limited itself to worldly physical perceptions might limit itself to that particular realm because that is all it knows. It is not difficult to imagine that only a soul that has sought after the spiritual realm, and so perceived and embraced the perfection of God’s kingdom, would possess a sufficient range of perception to choose entry into a heavenly realm. To this end, it may be said that “The Kingdom” must be believed and desired to be seen. “The Kingdom” is the open manifestation of justice, compassion, kindness, truthfulness, and all elements of the Godhead, such that all souls able to perceive it will clearly select it as the environment of their ultimate destination and so converge together in it. Just as today one either despises or loves our feeble attempts to produce “The Kingdom” in our churches, so the freed soul will seek it out or reject it in eternity. Remarkably however, many exercise an open volitional choice for a physical hell.
The difficulty for this particular author to understand “The Kingdom” lies in his narrow-minded focus upon his own limited, organic existence. The totality of human knowledge is clearly an insufficient amount of knowledge to fully understand the afterlife through merely physical means. When one rejects a spiritual means of understanding (prayer, meditation, scripture, spiritually meaningful action), ones perception becomes so narrowed as to recede into the dark recesses of atheism.
This author ends with the pessimistic implication that it is only through legacy that we can leave any lasting imprint and even that will ultimately diminish over time. The author speaks of a process of proliferating oneself, which is essentially self-worship; and most certainly does not result in an afterlife. It is, quite frankly: total nonsense. This author demonstrates a deep difficulty in segregating the physical and spiritual worlds. This author cannot seem to grasp or understand that dimensions exist that he cannot see, just as he cannot see germs or hear sounds beyond the perception of his eyes and ears, unaided. The wholesale rejection of everything beyond the limited sensory capacity of human beings is narrow minded and juvenile. Clearly this author has never experienced the Holy Spirit as manifest in Godly work. This author would, in the end, leave us to feel like: “twitching blobs of biological protoplasm”.
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Baal Of
1,207 reviews · 40 followers
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December 8, 2019
Interesting book in which the author handily address the claims and ideas behind the various immortality narratives, as he calls them. He is at his best when taking on these claims directly, and showing where they fail. For example, when talking about how theologians tie themselves in knots attempting to describe heaven, as the possible locations for such a place get pushed further and further out of possibility, capped off with a quote from motherfucker Joseph Ratzinger, aka Pope Benedict XVI, making the meaningless statement that heaven is the new 'space' of the body of Christ. I think that the author occasionally overreaches on his argument for the quest for immortality being the driver of, well, everything humans do, without giving enough credit to other drivers such as selfishness and just plain stupidity (wrt procreation), but that is all a matter of degree.
The biggest problem I have with the book is over his use of the Mortality Paradox - the idea that we know we will die, but that we can not imagine the state of non-existence. I agree with the first part, but not the second. I know I stand in opposition to a raft-load of philosophers, that he has quoted, but I still don't buy it. The reason given is that even when trying to imagine the universe without, there is still an observer, and that observer is you, and thus you must, in the words of Freud, "in the unconscious [still be] convinced of his own immortality." I think this claim fails on several points.
1) It limits human imagination in an arbitrary manner. There is no acknowledgement that maybe I can imagine things without explicitly being the observer, i.e. as someone else. Or maybe even as an abstract observer, with no actual substance, which leads into the next point.
2) It fails to treat imagination as imagination. By their argument, if I try to imagine myself as someone else, observing something, I can't because I only my own experience to draw on. But that's the fucking point of imagination - to think about things that aren't necessarily so. I can draw on all kinds of experience to *imagine* things that I have actually never observed, and thus where I couldn't be the actual observer.
3) It fails to consistently apply the claim. Using the same argument as the mortality paradox, it must also be the case that I believe I have lived forever, since I can't possibly image the universe *before* I existed. But I can imagine it, and I don't believe that I've always existed. The same argument applies to anytime I imagine from a point of view I can't actually do, for example in the deep vacuum of space.
4) It makes an unwarranted leap from the claim that it is impossible to imagine non-existence (I still don't buy it), to the claim we must therefore believe in our own immortality. For the first, it might be possible to put forth testable propositions, but for the second, it comes down to philosophers telling me I don't believe what I think and say I do believe. Maybe they know my belief state better than I do, but there will need to be a lot stronger proof for me to accept that claim.
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