2023/06/22

Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery - Kindle edition by Riso, Don Richard, Hudson, Russ. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery - Kindle edition by Riso, Don Richard, Hudson, Russ. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

https://www.scribd.com/read/470848178/Personality-Types-Using-the-Enneagram-for-Self-Discovery#


Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery Kindle Edition
by Don Richard Riso (Author), Russ Hudson (Author) Format: Kindle Edition
4.7 4.7 out of 5 stars 961 ratings
4.2 on Goodreads
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The definitive guide to using this ancient psychological system to gain self-knowledge and achieve personal growth—now expanded and revised.

The Enneagram is an extraordinary framework for understanding more about ourselves. No matter from which point of view we approach it, we discover fresh conjunctions of new and old ideas.

So writes Don Riso in this expanded edition of his classic interpretation of the Enneagram, the ancient psychological system used to understand the human personality. In addition to updating the descriptions of the nine personality types, Personality Types, Revised greatly expands the accompanying guidelines and, for the first time, uncovers the Core Dynamics, or Levels of Development, within each type. This skeletal system provides far more information about the inner tension and movements of the nine personalities than has previously been published. This increased specificity will allow therapists, social workers, personnel managers, students of the Enneagram, and general readers alike to use it with much greater precision as they unlock the secrets of self-understanding, and thus self-transformation.

“No Enneagram teachers I’ve come across offer such a rich and dynamic picture of how each personality type expresses itself in the world, and the process by which we can move through progressive stages of psychological and spiritual growth.”—Tony Schwartz, author of What Really Matters: Searching for Wisdom in America
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The definitive guide to using this ancient psychological system to gain self-knowledge and achieve personal growth—now expanded and revised.
 
The Enneagram is an extraordinary framework for understanding more about ourselves. No matter from which point of view we approach it, we discover fresh conjunctions of new and old ideas.
 
So writes Don Riso in this expanded edition of his classic interpretation of the Enneagram, the ancient psychological system used to understand the human personality. In addition to updating the descriptions of the nine personality types, Personality Types, Revised greatly expands the accompanying guidelines and, for the first time, uncovers the Core Dynamics, or Levels of Development, within each type. This skeletal system provides far more information about the inner tension and movements of the nine personalities than has previously been published. This increased specificity will allow therapists, social workers, personnel managers, students of the Enneagram, and general readers alike to use it with much greater precision as they unlock the secrets of self-understanding, and thus self-transformation.
 
“No Enneagram teachers I’ve come across offer such a rich and dynamic picture of how each personality type expresses itself in the world, and the process by which we can move through progressive stages of psychological and spiritual growth.”—Tony Schwartz, author of What Really Matters: Searching for Wisdom in America




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Rather, the effort required to move in the Direction of Integration is the effort of letting go of our old personality patterns.
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First, people do not change from one basic personality type to another. Each person is a unique individual within that larger group and, in the last analysis, remains that type for the rest of his or her life. In reality, people do change in many ways throughout their lives, but their basic personality type does not change.
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The ideal is to become your best self, not to envy the strengths and potentials of others.
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Editorial Reviews

About the Author
Don Richard Riso is the foremost writer and developer of the Enneagram in the world today. The most-published and bestselling author in the field, he is an internationally recognized authority on the subject. He is the president of Enneagram Personality Types, Inc., and founder of The Enneagram Institute.

James Anderson Foster has narrated audiobooks for a variety of publishers, across nearly all genres-both fiction and nonfiction. In 2015, he was a finalist in three categories for the Society of Voice Arts and Sciences Voice Arts Awards (Mystery, Science Fiction, and Fantasy). --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
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From the United States
Mariandre Aguilar
5.0 out of 5 stars Amazing
Reviewed in the United States on April 27, 2023
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This is a really good book and it explains literally EVERYTHING that you want and need to know and puts everything to to perspective.
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UrbanUtah
5.0 out of 5 stars Life Changing....
Reviewed in the United States on October 6, 2020
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This is probably TMI, but my husband & I have been married for 21 years and we were struggling (not unlike most long-term marriages or relationships at some point or another). We mutually decided he needed to embark on a modern-day Aboriginal Walk-About for 30 days. I helped him pack up our travel trailer and off he went to a local RV park to live on his own...time needed to figure himself out (and time for me to re-center my soul & enjoy some alone time). He embarked on journaling and meditation (neither of which he'd ever done before) and spent time "being" with himself....a journey of self-discovery & self-reliance. I purchased two books for him to take on his journey and this book was one of them. I stumbled on this book entirely by accident through a review of another book I was considering getting for him. After reading countless reviews for this book it seemed like it might be a good read. I knew nothing about Enneagrams so the profound change that came from his reading this book was a complete fluke. My husband dove into this book his first week away. He was completely obsessed with it. He would call me in the evenings crying (he NEVER cries). It was like an awakening for him and suddenly all of his struggles and personal bewilderment became crystal clear and he understood himself for the first time in his entire life (his words). He would read to me from the book every night. It piqued my curiosity (I hadn't even opened the cover when I bought it, I just packed it into the trailer for him to read while he was away) so I decided to buy myself my own copy since he wasn't home for us to share the book. I wanted to figure out my personality, then our adult children and so on. I even bought the book for my sister. The Enneagram concept is somewhat complex, but truly mind-blowing once you get things dialed in and understand how it works. Learning how each personality type functions within the healthy to unhealthy levels and how this impacts your life and all of your personal relationships. It's frighteningly accurate (as long as you are being honest about yourself) and nothing short of fascinating. I would recommend this book to anyone. Frankly, I'm shocked that therapists (both marriage and personal) don't have their clients take the Enneagram test online before embarking on any type of therapy, understanding yourself is key to facilitating change. This book is a must read for anyone on a journey of self-enlightenment.
40 people found this helpful
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M. Miller
4.0 out of 5 stars Definitely worth the read
Reviewed in the United States on October 14, 2014
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This book was, to me, a very good treatment of the Enneagram. I enjoyed the structure and the format. It starts with a general overview of what the Enneagram is and theories about its origin and evolution. From there, it moves on to each individual type, describing the types in general, then moving to specifics in each health state. The author describes what a healthy member of a given type looks like, moving to average, and then unhealthy.

What was most interesting to me is that he then explores each wing type. This is my first Enneagram book, so I can't really say how other authors have treated wings, but I know that it can be difficult to find information online. This was very helpful because the wing can dramatically affect the core type. For example, type Threes are typically quite extroverted. Threes with a Four wing, however, are often much more introverted. Threes are extremely competitive. Threes with a Four wing are just as competitive, but they often compete with themselves.

What this did for me was give some distinctions that helped clarify my type in areas where the core description didn't quite fit. I do wish Riso would have maybe given the the wing overviews immediately after the top level overview and then sprinkled additional information about the wings into the later subsections. I understand why he did it the way he did it, but that would be my preference.

One complaint I have doesn't have anything to do with the book. I share it only in the hopes it might be helpful for someone. Much of the information in this book can be found online. Where that's a problem, is that it is "much" of the information but not nearly "all." What that means is that my tendency the first time through the book was to skim and skip because much of it was familiar. It took me a little bit to figure out that I ended up skipping stuff that wasn't in the online descriptions.

With all that said, the reason I gave four stars instead of five has to do with the author's theories about "why." He theorizes about why the types exist, and tries to give insight into the mechanics for certain motivations.

First - the motivation of why the types exist or form. In each case, he identifies some sort of parental relationship that involves connection, disconnection, or ambivalence to either the nurturing figure (mother), protective figure (father), or both. The issue I have with this is that there is no information to back this up. Where does this idea come from? Is it observational or theoretical? As far as I can tell, there is nothing about how or why this part of the theory exists.

Second - Riso tries to give insight about the mechanics for certain motivations, and they seem too general for me. For example, he says that type 3s suppress their emotions to gain efficiency. Basically, they get in the way, so we shut them off. Okay, I imagine that is true for some people. I really don't know that it is true for me. Yes, I shut them off and it has been one heck of a battle to turn them back on, but I don't know that I shut them off because of efficiency.

I guess my point is that it bugs me when people present something as truth when it is either not necessarily truth, or it is not verifiable.

With that said, that really is just a nit and it doesn't take a ton away from the material. That's why I'm still giving it four stars. I do think it is a very helpful resource, and I would definitely recommend it.
18 people found this helpful
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Birger Jensen
5.0 out of 5 stars Superb
Reviewed in the United States on March 1, 2023
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The best tool to see your self
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Kindle Customer
5.0 out of 5 stars So fascinating
Reviewed in the United States on December 6, 2022
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Wow what an interesting book! I learned so much about myself and other personality types. It was fun figuring out who my friends were. And also really clarified some things on why certain people may act the way they do. I had no idea how in-depth it could be.
4 people found this helpful
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Neodoering
5.0 out of 5 stars Personality Types in a Poetic System
Reviewed in the United States on January 15, 2016
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This is a great book that highlights the 27 personality types of the Enneagram personality system. Each type is given a thorough description, including trouble spots for people of each type and what happens when that person becomes psychologically unhealthy or becomes more healthy, up to their peak. I bought the book to find myself, of course, and I did that, but I like to read it from time to time to check out other people's types and see if I can figure out which type applies to which friend.

To me the best part of all this is the poetry of the authors. They don't just churn out boring text about different personalities; they really gave some thought to how each type acts when they are psychologically healthy and how they act when they are unhealthy, or just average. When you find yourself, it feels like being discovered by a talent scout from Hollywood; the descriptions are flattering and so well said that you'll love finding you.

This is a big book, over 500 pages, and it is stuffed with information. You can pick it up for a few bucks on Amazon used books and enjoy it for months as you chew through the types and assign your friends and family their character. Highly recommended; everybody should own a copy of this book.
10 people found this helpful
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Chad S.
5.0 out of 5 stars Great for self-discovery
Reviewed in the United States on June 25, 2015
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I’m a 6 with a 5 wing, so I have a considerable amount of anxiety and fear about unknown situations, public speaking, conversing with others, and playing out future conversations with my internal “committee”. I am not going to go into the particulars (you can read more about what the enneagram is and how it applies to individuals in other reviews) but not only did Riso’s book give me a better understanding of myself, it also helped me tremendously with understanding others. I did not read it cover to cover, instead I read the general summary of each type and went into more depth as I encountered (interrupted) those personality types (I have yet to read it all). So far, it’s been great for self-discovery and handling social situations (for those with my particular personality type). Also, he has another book (one of many), The Wisdom of the Enneagram, that I am also reading which I find less technical but also a good read.

How did I hear about this book? My father is a retired therapist of 30+ years. He recommended this book to me as a starting point for understand how others operate (I was interviewing for a new job at the time).
22 people found this helpful
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Tamera
4.0 out of 5 stars Some insights
Reviewed in the United States on March 12, 2022
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Everyone that I tell about which type they may be, wants to read.
2 people found this helpful
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Alf
5.0 out of 5 stars The deepest and most incisive Enneagram book
Reviewed in the United States on December 19, 2003
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The description of my personality type (five) is like a report on the most intimate secrets of my psyche. It seems as though it had been prepared personally for me by a psychologist. It's all there...coping methods, defense mechanisms, thought habits, tendencies, reactions to other people, strengths and challenges. I instantly recognized myself even as it revealed aspects of my personality that I hadn't previously acknowledged.
Since I first read Personality Types a few years ago, the book has helped me in many significant ways. First, it has helped me to understand and accept myself. Second, it has moved my relationship with my wife (a six) to a place where we no longer judge each other. (To paraphrase another Enneagram author, "Everybody thinks everyone else is their same personality type, just a defective version of it." Third, it has helped me to open paths of communication with people who interact with the world in a completely different manner than I do. (Not everybody lives by facts!)
This book takes a psychological approach to the Enneagram and does not pull punches when it talks about paths of disintegration. This suits a "five" just fine, but if you prefer a spiritual approach you might try Helen Palmer. I personally don't go for that, but hey...it takes all types.
12 people found this helpful
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M. Castro
5.0 out of 5 stars The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
Reviewed in the United States on January 19, 2017
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It's all covered here. When you read the long, comprehensive description of your personality type, you will surely know it, for better or worse. The entire spectrum of (mental) health is covered, from top-form (which is very rare) to rock bottom (which hopefully is rare, too). The journey of all 12 Enneagram personality types as they descend in a downward spiral to become the person they fear the most is riveting reading. You would never believe it, but all laid out like this, it makes perfect sense. The book doesn't leave it there; it reveals the way one must go in order to come full circle & achieve an inner-peace & happiness. It explains why you must do what is not instinctive in order to be whole. There is even an explanation of how we become the personality types we become, through parental identification. I've found this book to be so helpful in understanding others and, most importantly in understanding myself (a work in progress).
62 people found this helpful
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Book Riot Community
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February 26, 2016
Personality Types is the most comprehensive outline of the Enneagram personality theory I’ve seen (akin to Lenore Thomson’s treatment of Myers-Briggs–Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual–in scope and depth). Riso and Hudson waded through the long history and collective knowledge of the Enneagram from disparate cultures and assimilated it into one cohesive theory. I’ve read a bit about the Enneagram in the past and I approached this book with a huge amount of skepticism about its veracity. To my own surprise, I was astonished at its precision, accuracy, and applicability to my own life. The book goes into great detail, but is well-organized and easy to follow. I highly recommend it to anyone looking to explore personality and self-awareness. –– Kate Scott


from The Best Books We Read In January: http://bookriot.com/2016/02/01/riot-r...

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Luke
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August 29, 2014
I was initially skeptical of the whole enneagram thing, worried it was one of those pop spirituality trends a la The Secret, kinda like Zodiac-Lite meets the Myers Briggs test (instead of 12 signs, there are 9 personality types.) Turns out, it’s not weird or boring at all. Rather, this book gives an insightful and illuminating rundown of the ways different personality types process information and emotions, the various ways we think about ourselves and navigate the world. In the chapter about my "type," it was freaky to read a (mostly) dead-on description of how I act/think/feel when I'm at my best/worst, and why. I won’t say this book or the enneagram paradigm has necessarily “changed my life,” but it has caused me to think differently about myself and certain people I know (including at least one fictional character I’ve been writing about for a while.) I think I understand a little better now what makes us all tick.

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K.M. Weiland
 
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July 12, 2018
Excellent in-depth information. There’s a ton of good stuff here, although I did feel the book too much emphasis on a descent into psychosis rather than a rise to health.

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Richard Stuart
166 reviews · 14 followers

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February 6, 2009
this book has taught me to see the world through many different kinds of perspectives. it allows me to enhance my strong feelings of sympathy/empathy because i can better understand where (and why) people are coming from, whether it is a place of fear or anxiety, or just a need for things to be a certain way so they feel comfortable in the world. it is an invaluable tool to learn to ACCEPT people for who they are.
pyschology

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Dimitris Hall
370 reviews · 55 followers

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August 10, 2016


Experience has shown that ... personalities ... may be grouped into various major categories, and for purposes of studying them this is a helpful device. Classifications must never be taken too seriously—they ruin much thinking—but the fear to use them has prevented much more thinking.

—Karl A. Menninger, The Human Mind


The above quote would find a lot of people in the world in open disagreement. Even in the US, where different social needs and anxieties gave birth to almost all forms of typology developed today, there is still some skepticism about the extent to which typology works and is based on fact; in the culture I grew up in, namely millennial Greece, the very concept of the existence of a number of more or less concrete personality types, is rather foreign to say the least---ironically, too, because some of the most adamant proto-typologists were ancient Greeks philosophers such as Galen, who is the best-known.

My enduring fascination with the subject and my attempts of discussing it with my surroundings have been mostly welcomed with polite indifference and at worst with open contempt: surely the entire wide spectrum of humanity cannot fit in a handful of archetypes. "How is this any different from astrology?", asks a One that has made her mind up about right and wrong; "no system can pigeonhole the infinite complexity that is me" is a common reaction from Threes or special-snowflake disintegrating Fours; "you do know that people's behaviours change according to their surroundings, right?", comes the valid though overly dismissive comment from a Five who likes to think he's unusually smart and thorough.

It's been very difficult to get people to look at this seriously and see the strengths of existing typology systems and how they can help us empathise with and understand eachother and ourselves. Half-arsed online tests and the seeming equation of typology with "which Disney/Game of Thrones/famous person are you?" hasn't helped people take the field seriously either, but I'm not one to judge; after all, it is how I myself, and many others I'm sure, originally came across typology. The difference is that I took an interest in the theory of it all, the questions that result in the answers that are all the different types. Thus did my research in this realm begin years ago and ever since I've been slowly trying to follow Kierkegaard's advice to become subjective toward others and objective toward myself.

Before reading Personality Types, the typology system I'd been most familiar with was the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, or MBTI, developed in the '70s and in later years built upon by David Keirsey and his four temperaments. MBTI was based on Jung's eight cognitive functions and laid out the sixteen four-letter type system we know and love today. According to it, each type is a different ordering of these Jungian functions that correspond to each individuals preference of use. I, for instance, am an INFP because I primarily use Introverted Feeling and then Extraverted Intuition.

Understanding how the cognitive functions work for each type is essential for understanding the MBTI, a fact which regrettably but understandably is most often missed by online tests because it makes the whole thing about ten times more difficult to decode.

To sum up, MBTI is used to categorise people according to their cognitive functions: the mechanics of the manner in which they perceive and process information, how they perceive the world (by observing or by abstracting?) and how they make decisions (thinking their way out or doing what feels right?).

Nevertheless, the MBTI isn't even what this book is about; I just wanted to illustrate the difference between it and the Enneagram, which is a different school of typology, and what Personality Types is about. Riso and Hudson did an excellent job with it of presenting the Enneagram as a more organic form of typology than MBTI. Sometimes the latter feels as if it's somehow constructed or artificial; the Enneagram, on the other hand, is very convincingly presented in this book as something that does exist out there, that it is what had been attempted to be captured by the first known typologists in ancient times up to Freud, and consequently it is something that absolutely has to be part of modern psychology and psychotherapy. They make a convincing case that the Enneagram's the culmination of everything that's been done before in the field, the most perfected and complete system that has been developed to this day. And after reading the book, I do stand convinced.

Here's a small sample of what the types are about and our problems:
Twos spend their whole lives searching for love from others and still feel that they are unloved.
Threes endlessly pursue achievement and recognition but still feel worthless and empty.
Fours spend their entire lives trying to discover the meaning of their personal identity and still do not know who they are.
Fives endlessly accumulate knowledge and skills to build up their confidence but still feel helpless and incapable.
Sixes toil endlessly to create security for themselves and still feel anxious and fearful about the world.
Sevens look high and low for happiness [through new experiences] but still feel unhappy and frustrated.
Eights do everything in their power to protect themselves and their interests but still feel vulnerable and threatened.
Nines sacrifice a great deal to achieve inner peace and stability but still feel ungrounded and insecure.
And finally, Ones strive to maintain personal integrity but still feel divided and at war with themselves.

The way out of these self-defeating patterns is to see that they cannot bring us the happiness that we seek because our personality does not have the power to create happiness. As wisdom has always recognized, it is only by dying to ourselves—that is, to our ego and its strategies—that we find life.


Apart from this small sample, here are some of the reasons I think the Enneagram is an excellent tool and theoretical system:

• The Enneagram is based on triads, just as the MBTI is based on pairs. Each Enneagram type is the combination of thinking, feeling or instinct with a modality of overexpression, underexpression or repression, which in turn represents each type's fundamental characteristic: all at once, its main weakness, the bane of its existence, what it strives to overcome, as well as what it's ambitions are aimed at and what it thinks it lacks. That makes 3 times 3, three modalities for three fundamental aspects of humanity.
• The wing system adds more depth and intricacy.
• On top of that, the fact that if as a person you're expressing your type well you're "integrating" into another type and if you're not you're disintegrating into yet another makes it clear what each type can strive for or can expect to happen if it doesn't remain healthy.
• The system is made even more complex by the fact that for each type there are essentially nine sub-types according to the level of development of the type. That also goes for the wings and directions of integration/disintegration.
• All the above combined make the Enneagram not only a great tool for self-discovery, empathy and understanding, but also quite revealing and useful for self-development as well.
• While reading the lengthy descriptions for each of the types, I had very clear images of real people I know or friends of mine who appear to be embodiments of their types. Imagine the symbol above but with the faces of people in my social network at each end. My personal Enneagram became these 9 friends of family of mine, and now I believe I can understand their possible fears, troubles and priorities much better, as well as see reflections of those characteristics on myself.


This stuff is real and I want to get deeper into it. I would heartily recommend you do as well, and there's no better place to start than Reddit's Enneagram Subreddit which has all the information and links to tests you might need. When you get the basics, reading an actual book, this one or another good one by Riso and Hudson or other personality psychologists and distinguished writers on the subject, will be the way to go. Good luck!

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Helene M
55 reviews · 38 followers

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February 20, 2016
Interesting read

3.5 -4 (dang wish they had .5 in some of these Labels )

1. The Reformer
2 The Helper
3 The Motivator
4 The Individualist
5 The Investigator
6 The Loyalist
7 The Enthusiast
8 The Leader
9 The Peacemaker

I thought some parts of this book had merit . And other parts had a "horoscope " feeling attached to it .

After reading each personality type. This book then breaks down and makes adjustments to the basic type . This is referred as The Wing or the other side of the basic personality .

Know then thyself , presume not God to scan ,
The proper study of mankind is man .
Alexander Pope, An Essay on Man .


Overall I thought the book was good . In each personality type both positive and negative characteristics are discussed . Bottom line everyone is unique . Labeling makes some uncomfortable. And has a tendency to piss people off . Especially when a negative trait is attached .....

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Chris Hunt
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April 16, 2011
Wow! If you have a desire to understand who you are, what drives you, and why, this is a powerful book. For self-understanding, I can't think of anything better. It changed my life when I first discovered this gem. Meyers and Briggs have nothing on Riso and Hudson when it comes to support for self-understanding.

My wife and I, for instance, knowing the Types we are, are able to understand the specific challenges we face within our marriage and why, and what we need to do to overcome those challenges.

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claudia
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January 1, 2021
As a person whose Self-Proclaimed Religion is in Astrology (Geminis, rise up), I am happy to say that this book blew me the HECK away with how accurate & in depth these personality profiles are. Heck, the Enneagram has officially replaced Astrology as my favorite personality assessment. I can see how the Enneagram framework can be a useful tool in understanding yourself and others. I myself am on a spiritual journey to transcend my personality (“ego death” as some may call it) and the integration paths outlined here are super helpful pointers in growth opportunities!

I highly recommend anyone looking to do a good psychoanalysis on themselves and/or the people closest to them to take an Enneagram test and pick up this book for further analysis - you will be surprised!!

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Charity
 
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December 19, 2014
Decent read that goes in-depth into Enneagram types. Could have been even simpler though in terms of identifying the basic core fears of each type; but it has complete write ups of each Enneagram type in various stages of health and disintegration, which is useful. I pegged most of my family and friends quite easily as a result.

The Core Fears Simplified:
Core fear – agitated, aggression.

Core 1: fear of being corrupt. (Strive for perfection.) Agitation: you’re an idiot, pushing you away.

Core 2: fear of being unloved. (Smother to compensate.) Agitation: freak out and want to know how you feel about them.

Core 3: fear of being worthless. (Become the best.) Agitation: aggressively firing off advice.

Core 4: scared of being insignificant. (Become overly expressive.) Agitation: aggressive competitiveness, anger at self for blending in too much.

Core 5: fear of inadequacy. (Obsess over obtaining knowledge.) Agitation: disassociate, self-analyze, and shut down.

Core 6: fear of being without support and guidance. (Rely too much on advice from others.) Agitation: begging for help, doubting others’ abilities to do things alone.

Core 7: fear of not having your desires met. (Scared to commit. Phobic.) Agitation: freak out because making this decision might make them miss other opportunities.

Core 8: fear of being harmed or controlled. (Dominate people. Paranoia.) Agitation: become aggressive, obsessed with motivation, and confrontational.

Core 9: fear of loss or separation. (Stay in unhealthy relationships.) Agitation: passive-aggressive clinging.

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thebutterflycastle
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August 28, 2013
I've read (studied) Myers Briggs "please understand me" for over 20 years, so was delighted this book incorporated ties to that.. but took it to another level of personal growth and development... no human fits neatly into 16 boxes like Myers Briggs dictates, something that I have never fully embraced as I tended to conclude folks are compilations of several of the 16 boxes.. 20% of one, 50% of another, etc... basically defining their own identity. However, the principles in this personality book are less rigid.. more fluid... you're a core this with a wing that... then there are subset depending on if you are high, middle, or low in your development which changes as we mature and experience different phases in our lives... much better! Enjoyed it. I think I may actually purchase this one for future reference instead of just borrowing it from the library.

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