Hearing Sam Harris talk about what the majority think of the afterlife made me think of my grandmother as a SDA. When her son died suddenly when I was a child, I used Christianese or what I understood as Christian beliefs to comfort her. I didn’t believe it, even then I was nebulous on the whole Jesus as Messiah idea. But I tried to make her feel better using language I heard before. “He is in heaven, in a better place and not in pain” (he died of acute leukemia within weeks of diagnosis and it was bad. She told me the idea of what Ehrman was talking about, how he is in the ground awaiting Judgement Day and I was horrified. I remember being told these beliefs were supposed to be a way to handle issues like grief, how, how could this belief bring peace to anyone. She stared at me aghast when I spoke this aloud of course. And I remember thanking my mom silently for raising me “Methodist,” and not freaking out when I feel out. So while Harris is right many believers have the wrong idea. Bits of Christendom have a very much more approximation of how Ehrman describes it than one would think.
So, in synthesis, Jesus was a country preacher who had some success with the folksy people of Galilee. That went to his head and he thought of himself as the prophesied 'messiah', champion of god on earth, etc. Went to Jerusalem expecting to duplicate his success on a far larger scale but failed at his first test, at the temple, where he misunderstood the function served by the coin-exchanger and caused an unnecessary ruckus. He was wacked by the Romans who didn't like people who disturbed the already fragile peace. His followers (at least, some of them) didn't want to admit they had been wrong and - as modern believers of imminent ends of the world do when the dates pass without apocalypse - they invented an incredibly complicated theology (three gods for the price of one, etc) to justify their choices. And that was the beginning of the most widespread religion on Earth.I wonder what some observers from outer spaces would take from this as basis for their opinion on humanity...
Bart, at least in this interview, gives too much credit to “Jesus” and “Paul” without considering the geopolitical situation at the time. Messiah messages were not good for peace in the eyes of Rome. Current events at that time, confirmed in now historical accounts, showed that. Yet here we have a “peaceful” Jewish messiah preaching Torah around the countryside who gets endorsed later by a peaceful Jew who claimed to be a Pharisee. Both say: pay your taxes, love everyone and wait for your power and redemption and ultimate justice in the afterlife.....Any empire building power would endorse that message and make sure it was propagated....
I am not sure what religion Bart is describing in this podcast, but it sure is not Christianity...lol. What he described to Sam Harris is the wackiest, goofiest jumbled mess of beliefs I have ever heard...signed 40 years as a devoted Christian. It would sure be nice if Sam Harris would have asked all these questions of someone who is actually a Christian and wouldn't grossly misrepresent the religion. It is no wonder Bart lost his faith if he really believed all this stuff. It is crazy! lol
Ehrman is talking about early Christianity, not Christianity as it is today. He's talking about what the NT actually says, not how it is interpreted today. If you really want to see wacky, take a look at Christian Gnosticism.
Harris' question, "What sort of group induction experience as a teenager wouldn't produce a feeling of elation?" is right on. That's exactly why people can think they are born again when they are not. Especially an impressionable teenager who wants acceptance.If you are physically born, can you get unborn? If you are born again, can you get unborn again? It's a supernatural transaction between you and God that can't be undone. You are irreversibly sealed by the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemption of the body (resurrection).What in the Bible, or outside the Bible, so convinces you that Jesus isn't who he said he was? You say he wasn't a myth. If anyone who has ever lived seems to meet the standards one would expect for God, it is Jesus. He is either who he said he is or he is not. He said "I and the Father are one." He claimed to be the I AM of the OT. The Sanhedrin found him guilty of blasphemy because of his claim to be equal with God. If you conclude he is not God, contrary to his claims, then you necessarily have to believe he was lying or crazy. Or that all the sources, both biblical and secular, were making things up, in which case, you have spent your entire life studying a fairy tale--and convincing others the New Testament is a fairy tale. To what purpose?
It’s sad that this man has studied these ideas for so long and has acquired no understanding of the meaning behind the Christian ideas. God became man so that man could become God. Figure it out. The purely intellectual approach will just lead to doubt. You must have a vital spiritual experience. Forget that Protestant born again junk. The teachings are true and profound and life changing. Wake up!!
Paul..originally saul was a young man when Stephen the first martyr was stoned to death..he is said to have held the stoners ( haha stoners) cloaks.. the time period is confusing if he meets jesus in a vision 2-3 yrs after his death..so he was..a teen? Early twenties?
Bart you are blowing the doors off our centuries of religous christianity. is there any truth to the bible left after digging for the real truth as long as you have.?
Say a prayer? Say a prayer? Say a prayer? Umm? Yeah no.Salvation only occurs after death,and only for those who lived righteously after accepting Christ – it is impossible to be “saved” while still in this life, which is a false doctrineChrist directly states that you must endure to the end before salvation can be applied to your life – Matthew 24:13Example of Apostate doctrineChrist states that one must “endure to the end” to be saved (no one is “saved” already) – Matthew 10:22
