2021/04/12

What do you think about the movie 'The great global warming swindle'? - Quora

What do you think about the movie 'The great global warming swindle'? - Quora:

I just watched this in its entirety tonight. The thoughts I had throughout the program were:

Are they proposing that there is no consequence at all of dumping an unlimited amount of carbon into the atmosphere?

Is it really plausible that people concerned about global warming are greedy bastards trying to cash-in? Isn't more likely that they are worried about the welfare and safety of millions or billions of their fellow world citizens and themselves? And that the global warming deniers are the ones most likely financially benefit from their actions, at least the ones at the top who control carbon resources.

Things are getting better in terms of solar energy and energy storage especially by Elon Musk through Telsa and Solar City. The problems that were had by that clinic powered with solar cells could be resolved by more and more efficient batteries and a battery in the form that is going to be produced by Musk's GigaFactory.

China is burning plenty of fossil fuels and is presently choking on them. They need to move to renewables just to be able to breathe properly.

After the film was over I thought what I have always thought on the matter. If you are wrong about Global Warming we are all screwed. Therefore it makes sense to assume the idea is correct and try to act accordingly. Anyways, those precious resources won't last more than a few hundred years at most. Why not make the switch to renewables now and preserve them? It'll be hundreds of millions of years before we can make more!

Profile photo for Sejin Pak

All the points have been debunked many times.

However, I think there's a key thing to understand. Not all scientists are the same. What a scientist says about something that is not in their field, well, they might be able to explain what's going on better (though maybe not), but their opinion isn't worth much more than the average schmoe. It's difficult enough to keep up with the details of one field, let alone others.

So, as we would expect, the consensus is much stronger amongst climatologists who have studied global rather than regional patterns, stronger amongst meteorologists than physicists, and stronger amongst physicists than, say, computer scientists. Ultimately, it doesn't matter much whether someone is a "scientist" if they don't know what's going on in the field they are talking about.

Take me, for instance. (Please!) I was convinced of AGW back in the 1990s. However, while I did give a paper at the American Meteorological Society, my work was in thunderstorm formation (mostly convection) and regional climatology (mostly El Niño). I've seen papers on global climatology, but I was also involved enough in scalability of simulations and certain fairly obvious things like the incompressibility of the Navier-Stokes equations to have some skepticism about the calculations, though I judged them probably to be right enough. I've done a fair amount with general fluid dynamics and chaos, and I did a tiny bit of stuff with Antarctic ice cores.

This puts me ahead of all but one or two people I've seen in public fora about the subject and certainly way ahead of the majority of scientists. Still, I'm so far from the folks who do climatology that, to a zeroth approximation, I might as well be considered a complete ignoramus. I'll state my opinion, but only if I can give enough caveats as I have in this message. I wouldn't be caught dead on a video like this one that someone else could edit.

1 comment from Marcin Krol

It's very difficult to respond critically to a video. The video plays; to reply to it you have to stop it, transcribe the argument, rebut it, and then return to it. That makes videos great tools of persuasion, but poor ways to actually learn about a complex issue.

I doubt, however, that this video is covering anything that hasn't been done a thousand times before, and debunked a thousand times before. Here are a couple lengthy lists of denialist arguments and scientific responses to them:

Arguments from Global Warming Skeptics and what the science really says

How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: Responses to the most common skeptical arguments on global warming

If you like, you can go through the video, stopping after each argument, and then going to look up what some scientist has said about it. If that seems like too much work, and so you end up giving them the benefit of the doubt since they seem to know what they're talking about... well, that's why they made the video.

Oh, and one more thing: yes, this also applies to films like An Inconvenient Truth. The difference is that An Inconvenient Truth, while flawed, is backed at its major points by work that isn't rebutted and which has withstood repeated scientific scrutiny. If you want to know actual truth, you look at the work of actual climatologists in any climatology journal, or read a summary of their work by climatologists, such as:

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

4 comments from Bulat Bochkariov and more

A general principle, if it's a video, it's not science. It's either entertainment or propaganda.

With science you lay out a set of facts with references. You don't have an anonymous narrator or a bunch of random alleged expert talking heads.

There are enough loony scientists in the world and enough people with personal agendas that you can make a video about almost anything and fill up 90 minutes with the narrator intoning with this quote and that quote over ominous background rumble and interviews with various people that will expound at great length about how they're right about something.

And it all means nothing. The methods of fudging and dodging and asking rhetorical questions is very well developed. A clever writer can make a case for almost anything.

Profile photo for Sejin Pak

They say that an honest critic is the best friend of a scientist, while today climate skeptics are perceived as heretics. From my vantage point, CO2 -> significant temperature increase (like 5 degrees Celsius), which is what entire furball is about really seems poorly supported. Even if this guy is incorrect on every single point he raises, that still does not prove merit of MMGW claims (it's not like "if he's wrong, they're right").

Profile photo for Sejin Pak

This film is beneficially provocative. We can only truly advance our knowledge and understanding through debate, dissention and conflicting views. It is a necessary process in successfully dealing with our most challenging problems.

1 comment from Victor Eijkhout

Here you can find some interesting responses


p.s. the second looks like a repetition of the first one but video 2, 3 and 4 are just more in-depth analysis of the first one which represents an introduction.

2 comments from David Joyce and more

Trust your own eyes. Have a look at this:
"CHASING ICE" captures largest glacier calving ever filmed.
No swindle.


Just a load of hot air | Climate science denial | The Guardian

Just a load of hot air | Climate science denial | The Guardian
Just a load of hot air
George Monbiot
This article is more than 11 years old



A book denying that climate change is man-made has been greeted with derision by experts. So why, wonders George Monbiot, has the Spectator swallowed the line so enthusiastically?

Fri 10 Jul 2009 09.01 AEST

Seldom has a book been as cleanly murdered by scientists as Ian Plimer's Heaven + Earth, which purports to show that man-made climate change is nonsense. Since its publication in Australia it has been ridiculed for a hilarious series of schoolboy errors, and its fudging and manipulation of the data. Here's a flavour of the reviews:

"Given the errors, the non-science, and the nonsense in this book, it should be classified as science fiction in any library that wastes its funds buying it. The book can then be placed on the shelves alongside Michael Crichton's State of Fear, another science fiction book about climate change with many footnotes. The only difference is that there are fewer scientific errors in State of Fear." - Professor David Karoly, University of Melbourne's School of Earth Sciences.

"Plimer has done an enormous disservice to science, and the dedicated scientists who are trying to understand climate and the influence of humans, by publishing this book. It is not 'merely' atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrong for Plimer to be right. It would require a rewriting of biology, geology, physics, oceanography, astronomy and statistics. Plimer's book deserves to languish on the shelves along with similar pseudo-science such as the writings of Immanuel Velikovsky and Erich von Daniken." - Professor Michael Ashley, astrophysicist at the University of New South Wales.

"If this had been written by an honours student, I would have failed it with the comment: you have obviously trawled through a lot of material but the critical analysis is missing. Supporting arguments and unsupported arguments in the literature are not distinguished or properly referenced, and you have left the impression that you have not developed an understanding of the processes involved. Rewrite!" - Professor Kurt Lambeck, earth scientist and President of the Australian Academy of Science.

Here are just a few of the book's elementary howlers:

Plimer uses a graph produced for the 2007 documentary, The Great Global Warming Swindle on Channel 4: the programme altered the timeline, creating the false impression that most of the rise in temperature last century took place before 1940. After an outcry by scientists, subsequent editions of the film corrected the timeline. But Plimer leaves the graph - and its convenient error - intact.

He claims that only 4% of the CO² in the atmosphere is produced by humans. In fact the pre-industrial concentration was roughly 280 parts per million. Human activities have now raised this to 387ppm - you can work it out for yourself.

For a professor of geology, Plimer makes some astonishing errors about volcanoes. He claims that Mount Pinatubo released "very large quantities of chloroflourocarbons". The source he cites for this claim says the opposite. Like The Great Global Warming Swindle (from which several of the claims in his book appear to originate), he maintains that volcanoes produce more CO² than humans. In fact, humans produce 130 times more CO² than volcanoes.

Ashley noticed in Plimer's book "an almost word-for-word reproduction of the abstract from a well-known loony paper entitled 'The sun is a plasma diffuser that sorts atoms by mass'. This paper argues that the sun isn't composed of 98% hydrogen and helium, but is instead similar in composition to a meteorite. It is hard to understate the depth of scientific ignorance that the inclusion of this information demonstrates. It is comparable to a biologist claiming that plants obtain energy from magnetism rather than photosynthesis."

You would think all this would be enough to bury the book. You would be wrong. In one of the gravest misjudgments in journalism this year, the Spectator has made the book's British publication its cover story, with the headline "Relax: global warming is all a myth". Its story consists of a hagiography of Plimer by James Delingpole, a man who knows - and cares - less about science than I do about formula one.

Plimer's book, he says, demonstrates that anthropogenic global warming "is the biggest, most dangerous and ruinously expensive con trick in history".

Delingpole takes the opportunity to cite the usual conspiracy theories about the "powerful and very extensive body of vested interests" working to suppress the truth, which presumably now includes virtually the entire scientific community and everyone from Shell to Greenpeace and the Sun to Science magazine. That took some organising.

What the article shows is that climate change denial is a matter of religious conviction. The quality of the evidence has nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter how comprehensively the sources have been discredited, or how ridiculous the claims are. People such as Plimer and Delingpole will cling on to anything that allows them to maintain their view of the world. But why did the editor of the Spectator let them use the magazine as a platform for their nutty conspiracy theories?

monbiot.com