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Tulshuk Lingpa questions - Dharma Wheel

Tulshuk Lingpa questions - Dharma Wheel

Tulshuk Lingpa questions

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Nosta
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Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Nosta » 

After reading the incredible life of Tulshuk Lingpa, the lama that tried to open a gate to the hidden land of Beyul, many questions arise on me. I will just pose some questions and I would like to read some opinions of people who read about him too.

1) Would you say that some miraculous things that happened were real? For example, the footprint he made on stone. Some people who saw that happening, saw smoke. But in the other hand, you can see by the picture in the book that it seems made with a chisel...

2) Do you really believe in the existence of a land like Beyul here on Earth?

3) What if Tulshuk was just someone inventing all the stuff (and forging the miracles like the footprint), what would he get with that? Unless he was even more mad than we think, seeing himself like a deity, in the same way some leaders of religious sects lead people to tragic ends (remember that an avalanch almost killed the final group and ended with his life).

4) On the other - and this is not like a question but more stuff to think - in the book, 8 of the 12 people we were with him in the final days, said (to the author of the biography, Thomas Shor) that they saw a cloud coming up and dow around them and they also say strange lights. One of them who was near the entrance to Beyul saw the start of a greeny place, whit beautiful scents and even strange and beautiful sounds comming from that place.

So, is this a story of a creative guy who invented lots of stuff, or th story of a real Terton?
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tingdzin
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by tingdzin » 

You have to decide for yourself. In particular, you will not find the answer here.
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Punya
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Punya » 

I found this story really interesting. Unfortunately I lost my copy of the book on the way back from India.

I'd say I'm more inclined to believe than disbelieve. Tulshik Lingpa had pretty good credentials, including being a student of both Chatral Rinpoche and Dudjom Rinpoche.

Also, what we find in the west to be fantastic is more commonplace in Tibetan culture (and other traditional cultures for that matter). If you read biographies like Blazing Splendour you'll know that seemingly miraculous events and unusual atmospheric events are accepted as things that can occur. In contemporary times western students have witnessed these things too.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
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Nosta
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Nosta » 

Thanks for your answers.

I honestly dont know what to think. Its really bad if he was a liar. A buddhist lama should be honest and follow precepts, not lead people into a tragic situation, by creating lies (a forged footprint for instance). Thats really really a shame, but I bet that even in Tibet many monks and lamas are more concerned with respect and power: "I am the owner of a monastery!" or "I have lots of disciples of believe in my miracles!", but people are prone to such things, be it buddhists, muslins or whatever.

But in the end we will never now if T.Lingpa was one of them, or a real terton.
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Norwegian
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Norwegian » 

Nosta,

Tulshuk Lingpa had the stamp of approval by both HH Dudjom Rinpoche, and Chatral Rinpoche. What else do you need when you have this?

As for the image of the footprint, it looks like how footprints in rock tend to look like, comparing it with other known instances of this phenomena. Here's the handprint of Guru Padmasambhava, above the entrance of a cave he did practice in: http://www.dharma-media.org/media/gener ... CF0658.JPG
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."
-- The Secret Assembly Tantra
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Nosta
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Nosta » 

I didnt knew that handprint, incredible!
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Malcolm
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Malcolm » 

Norwegian wrote:Nosta,

Tulshuk Lingpa had the stamp of approval by both HH Dudjom Rinpoche, and Chatral Rinpoche. What else do you need when you have this?

As for the image of the footprint, it looks like how footprints in rock tend to look like, comparing it with other known instances of this phenomena. Here's the handprint of Guru Padmasambhava, above the entrance of a cave he did practice in: http://www.dharma-media.org/media/gener ... CF0658.JPG
I can tell you that Guru P had very small hands...
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!
—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Adamantine
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Adamantine » 

Malcolm wrote:
Norwegian wrote:Nosta,

Tulshuk Lingpa had the stamp of approval by both HH Dudjom Rinpoche, and Chatral Rinpoche. What else do you need when you have this?

As for the image of the footprint, it looks like how footprints in rock tend to look like, comparing it with other known instances of this phenomena. Here's the handprint of Guru Padmasambhava, above the entrance of a cave he did practice in: http://www.dharma-media.org/media/gener ... CF0658.JPG
I can tell you that Guru P had very small hands...
And Milarepa was so small he fit into a yak horn. . . his hands must have been sooo tiny
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Malcolm
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Malcolm » 

Adamantine wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Norwegian wrote:Nosta,

Tulshuk Lingpa had the stamp of approval by both HH Dudjom Rinpoche, and Chatral Rinpoche. What else do you need when you have this?

As for the image of the footprint, it looks like how footprints in rock tend to look like, comparing it with other known instances of this phenomena. Here's the handprint of Guru Padmasambhava, above the entrance of a cave he did practice in: http://www.dharma-media.org/media/gener ... CF0658.JPG
I can tell you that Guru P had very small hands...
And Milarepa was so small he fit into a yak horn. . . his hands must have been sooo tiny
I don't think you get my point — I put my hand in that handprint, and my hands were much larger. All I am saying is that Guru P, physically, could not have been taller than 5' 4". He was a tiny guy by modern standards, though not by the standards of his day.
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!
—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Adamantine
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Adamantine » 

Malcolm wrote:
I don't think you get my point — I put my hand in that handprint, and my hands were much larger. All I am saying is that Guru P, physically, could not have been taller than 5' 4". He was a tiny guy by modern standards, though not by the standards of his day.
hmmmnn... i think i put my hand in that one among others, and my head in the head print, etc. . don't recall them being very small.. but perhaps I just didn't take note of it. Or maybe your hands are much bigger than mine!
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Adamantine
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Adamantine » 

Regardless, he appears pretty big sometimes nowadays: Image
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Nosta
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Nosta » 

I didnt knew this, but it seems that there is a footprint of Jesus in Al-Aqsa Mosque:
http://shalomholytours.com/al-aqsa-mosque/
(no image on the link)

Jesus, a Terton :thinking:

Anyway, comming back on topic, it seems that the footprint made by Tulshuk Lingpa was smaller than is own foot. Supposing that it was a real siddhi, I still dont get how could that be.
Perhaps the hands of Padmasambhava were also bigger than his own handprint (maybe there is something in the "printing" process causing that).
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Adamantine
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Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Adamantine » 

Nosta wrote:I didnt knew this, but it seems that there is a footprint of Jesus in Al-Aqsa Mosque:
http://shalomholytours.com/al-aqsa-mosque/
(no image on the link)

Jesus, a Terton :thinking:

Anyway, comming back on topic, it seems that the footprint made by Tulshuk Lingpa was smaller than is own foot. Supposing that it was a real siddhi, I still dont get how could that be.
Perhaps the hands of Padmasambhava were also bigger than his own handprint (maybe there is something in the "printing" process causing that).
Maybe some shrinkage happens with the cooling process. . . you'd probably have to ask a siddha capable of it to really know!
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Norwegian
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Tulshuk Lingpa questions

Post by Norwegian » 

Malcolm wrote:
Norwegian wrote:Nosta,

Tulshuk Lingpa had the stamp of approval by both HH Dudjom Rinpoche, and Chatral Rinpoche. What else do you need when you have this?

As for the image of the footprint, it looks like how footprints in rock tend to look like, comparing it with other known instances of this phenomena. Here's the handprint of Guru Padmasambhava, above the entrance of a cave he did practice in: http://www.dharma-media.org/media/gener ... CF0658.JPG
I can tell you that Guru P had very small hands...
I'll have to compare with my own hands one day :)
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."
-- The Secret Assembly Tantra
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Tulshuk Lingpa - Rigpa Wiki

Tulshuk Lingpa - Rigpa Wiki

Tulshuk Lingpa


Tulshuk Lingpa, courtesy of Thomasshor.com

Tulshuk Lingpa (Tib. བརྟུལ་ཞུགས་གླིང་པ་, Wyl. brtul zhugs gling pa) (1916-1962) was a charismatic and learned tertön, and a student of Dudjom Rinpoche. His name means 'Crazy Treasure Revealer'.

Kunzang, the only son of Tulshuk Lingpa, describes his father: "My father was just like the eighth emanation of Padmasambhava, Guru Nyima Özer. Guru Nyima Özer was like a sadhu, a wandering holy man, never staying in one place. He was not a stable type of person. He was a crazy yogin like my father. And like my father, he drank a lot."

Birth & Family

Tulkshuk Lingpa was born in the Golok region of eastern Tibet with the name Senge Dorje.

His father was Kyechok Lingpa, a lama at the Domang Monastery in eastern Tibet. His father was forced by the invading Chinese to flee over the Himalayas to India with his wife, Kilo. Kyechok Lingpa then had a monastery in Patanam, a few days' march from Tulshuk Lingpa's monastery in Simoling, Lahaul, until he died.

Activity

Tibet and India

Tulkshuk Lingpa was recognised as a tertön by Dorje Dechen Lingpa (also know as the Domang Tulku) at the Domang Monastery in eastern Tibet. Dorje Dechen Lingpa made an attempt to open Beyul Demoshong in 1920's, which failed. He died on his return journey. While still young, Tulkshuk Lingpa was able to catch a phurba, a namter, sky-treasure. Tulkshuk Lingpa moved to India in his early twenties, lived and had monasteries in Himachal Pradesh, in India's western Himalayas.

Sikkim: an Attempt to Open a Beyul

In the early 1960s, Tulshuk Lingpa came from Tibet to the then independent Kingdom of Sikkim in the Eastern Himalayas—sandwiched between Nepal, Bhutan, Tibet, and Indian Bengal—in order to ‘open the way’ to a hidden valley of immortality fabled in Tibetan tradition.

After receiving visions that indicated he was to open the hidden valley in Sikkim, Beyul Demoshong, he went to Sikkim with 300 followers.

Students

Among his students are:

  • Géshipa, once the rainmaker for the king of Buthan
  • Lama Tashi, from Simoling, he was the umdzé, or head of rituals, at Tulshuk Lingpa's monastery in Simoling, Lahaul.
  • Lobsang, a close disciple and a very learned lama
  • Mipam, a close disciple and learned lama. Originally from Lahaul, and a great practitioner of Chöd, he now leaves in deep retreat in a cave in Bhutan
  • Namdrol, one of Tulshuk Lingpa's closest and most learned lama disciples. He was the one to hand-copy the texts that Tulshuk Lingpa wrote or received as terma.

Tulshuk Lingpa was also close to Tarthang Tulku.

Family

With his first wife Phuntsok Choeden[1], he had several children:

  • Sangyum Kamala, his eldest daughter, wife of Chatral Rinpoche
  • Kunsang, his only son, also known as Dungsey Rinpoche
  • Penzom, another daughter. She once said to Thomas K. Shor that 'We call the highest ranking man in the military man a general; in the same way, we call the highest of the lamas a lingpa'.

With his khandro, or consort, Chimi Wangmo, from the village of Koksar in Lahaul, he had one daughter: Pema Choekyi. She was born shortly before Tulshuk Lingpa went into the snow mountains to open Beyul Demoshong. Her son is Gyurme.

Notes & References

Phunsok Choedon was a great practitioner and dakini who devoted her entire life to Dharma practice. She was from central Tibet and came very young with Tulshuk Lingpa to India. When she passed away at age 83, her body remained in meditation for 7 days, and a circular rainbow appeared in the sky over her room.

Further Reading

  • Thomas K. Shor, 'A Step Away from Paradise: The true story of a Tibetan Lama’s journey to a Land of Immortality' (City Lion Press, 2017)

External Links

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