2021/02/26

Bob Dylan – With God on Our Side Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

Bob Dylan – With God on Our Side Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

The lyrics address the tendency of Americans to believe that God will invariably side with them and oppose those with whom they disagree, thus leaving unquestioned the morality of wars fought and atrocities committed by their country. Dylan mentions several historical events, including the slaughter of Native Americans in the nineteenth century, the Spanish–American War, the American Civil War, World Wars I and II, The Holocaust, the Cold War and the betrayal of Jesus Christ by Judas Iscariot; the song made no explicit reference to the Vietnam War until live renditions in the 1980s, when an additional verse ran thus:

In the nineteen-sixties came the Vietnam War
Can somebody tell me what we’re fightin' for?
So many young men died
So many mothers cried
Now I ask the question
Was God on our side?


WITH GOD ON OUR SIDE LYRICS

Oh my name it ain't nothin'
My age it means less

The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that the land that I live in
Has God on its side

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well

The cavalries charged
The Indians fell

The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Ah the country was young
With God on its side

The Spanish-American
War had its day

And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away

And the names of the heroes

I’s made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side


The First World War boys
It came and it went
The reason for fightin'
I never did get

But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side


The Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried

The Germans now too
Have God on their side


I’ve learned to hate the Russians
All through my whole life
If another war comes
It’s them we must fight

To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely

With God on my side


But now we got weapons
Of chemical dust
If fire them we’re forced to
Then fire them we must

One push of the button
And a shot the world wide

And ya' never ask questions
When God’s on your side


Through many dark hour
I been thinking about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for ya'
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Is cariot
Had God on his side


So now as I’m leavin'
I’m weary as Hell
The confusion I’m feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And they fall to the floor

If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war


Quaker ministry - Google Search

Quaker ministry - Google Search

What is Quaker ministry?
Quakers don't believe in a clergy, they feel that all believers can minister to one another. They emphasise the importance leading your own life well as an example to others (what a person does can be much clearer than what they say). They also practice worship in silence.3 July 2009

Religions - Christianity: Quakers - BBCwww.bbc.co.uk › christianity › subdivisions › quakers_1
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Do Quakers believe Jesus is God?
They based their message on the religious belief that "Christ has come to teach his people himself", stressing the importance of a direct relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and a direct religious belief in the universal priesthood of all believers.

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Can you be an atheist Quaker?
Nontheist Quakers (also known as nontheist Friends or NtFs) are those who engage in Quaker practices and processes, but who do not necessarily believe in a theistic God or Supreme Being, the divine, the soul or the supernatural.

Nontheist Quakers - Wikipedia
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Do Quakers go to heaven?
Baptism - Most Quakers believe that how a person lives their life is a sacrament and that formal observances are not necessary. Quakers hold that baptism is an inward, not outward, act. ... Heaven, Hell - Quakers believe that God's kingdom is now, and consider heaven and hell issues for individual interpretation.15 Mar 2018

Quaker Beliefs and Worship Practices as a Religion - Learn Religions
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Do Quakers Believe in Heaven?
Posted by Kevin Camp on 8th mo. 3, 2017 at 12:00pmView Blog


"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. There is more than enough room in my Father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going."-John 14:1-4

__________________

I was raised a Methodist, Sunday schooled to believe that Heaven existed, though in fairness not much emphasis was placed upon it. When a young child, I lay across my mother's lap during the service, staring up to the rough pine planks of the high A-frame ceiling. Surely God was up there. I never questioned anything taught to me. When it was my time, I would ascend upwards like everyone else who had lived a good and moral life.

Now a Quaker, years later, I've done my share of research on the subject and still never been satisfied. It seems that Friendly beliefs about the afterlife are inconsistent at best. The liberal unprogrammed Friends with whom I have worshiped are much more concerned with good works performed on Earth. There's certainly a place for that, but I've never been able to shake the belief that there is a destination I may end up if I play my cards right. Maybe I'm selfish. Doing right for the sake of rightness alone isn't enough for me. Life is challenging. I seek a respite when my time is up, whenever that shall be.

My vision of heaven has changed drastically over time. It has been shaped by movies, books, television shows, many of which seem to show a stereotypical notion of a place up in the clouds where everything is perfect. When I've asked Friends the question which I have titled this piece, I've gotten a wide variety of answers, most of which deviate dramatically from the way I was taught. Most involve some lofty goal to be accomplished on Earth, often a work of activism that has been transformed into a life's work. But again, I question whether that is truly enough for anyone. I think God wants us to look forward towards Heaven as one of the most profound symbols of his love for us.

Part of the confusion is how infrequently eternal life is mentioned in Scripture. Interpreters of the few passages where Heaven is mentioned downplay the doubts some might have and emphasize the promised reward. This kind of reminds me of a mother disciplining her child, who constantly asks "Why?" and the mother firmly replies, "Because I said so." I'm not sure that I believe major matters like these are so easily explained away and predicated on blind faith alone.

A few verses later, this same chapter states that Jesus is the sole path to God the Father. I was taught to not take offense at how narrow this interpretation is and to be happy that my path to salvation existed in any form. Better to put my doubt aside and be thankful for what I had. Again, I asked why to a multitude of people and was told instead, "Because I said so." In that regard, I rebelled. I have never believed that Christianity was the only way, though I will say that it has been highly instructive and effective for me.

I conclude with a few queries. Do you believe in Heaven? If so, what form does it take in your imagination? If not, why do you reject the notion?

Views: 1442
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"On Vocal Ministry": Read the new Pendle Hill Pamphlet by Barry Crossno and J. Brent Bill | Friends General Conference

"On Vocal Ministry": Read the new Pendle Hill Pamphlet by Barry Crossno and J. Brent Bill | Friends General Conference

"On Vocal Ministry": Read the new Pendle Hill Pamphlet by Barry Crossno and J. Brent Bill

By Marta Rusek, Communications Manager | 12/04/19


FGC's General Secretary Barry Crossno and Quaker author J. Brent Bill have collaborated on a new Pendle Hill pamphlet that examines the spiritual process of vocal ministry. On Vocal Ministry: Nurturing the Community through Listening and Faithfulness includes discussion questions and a detailed diagram for Friends and anyone who feels led to hold the spiritual welfare of their meeting. 

Barry and Brent recently answered questions about their new project in an interview with FGC's Communications Manager, Marta Rusek.

Why did you write On Vocal Ministry?

Brent: One reason I wanted to write it was that it gave me the chance to work with my dear friend Barry. I always find his thinking about the life and power in Quaker faith and practice engaging and thoughtful, and I thought it would be grand to collaborate on a topic that is at the heart of Quaker life.

A second is that, as a life-long Friend, I’ve experienced really deep vocal ministry and really bad facsimiles of the same. Often, in my opinion, the latter came from someone who really didn’t have a very deep understanding of what vocal ministry was and confused it with an announcement, an opportunity to voice and opinion they held dear, or chance to educate those they felt needed educating. So I feel it is important for Friends to have a clear, succinct understanding of what vocal ministry is…and what it isn’t. The Pendle Hill Pamphlet series, because of their word length restrictions, gave us an opportunity to state concisely our observations and learning about what makes for deep vocal ministry – and tests to see if we are led to speak.

Barry: Over a period of some years, various Friends have shared with me that the quality of vocal ministry in their Monthly Meeting is…ahem…variable. Sometimes it is deeply inspired. At other times Friends share things that are clearly not ministry such as announcements or worse, that are painful and divisive. Given FGC’s anti-racism work coupled with our commitment to help Friends have deep experiences of Spirit, it seemed like the right time to pen something related to vocal ministry. I’m really grateful to Brent for saying yes to co-authoring this work. He’s a great friend and a tremendous writer. This wouldn’t have happened without his commitment, insights and skill. I’m also very grateful to Janaki Spikard-Keeler and the Pendle Hill Pamphlet committee for saying yes to this possibility and helping shepherd it into existence.

On Vocal Ministry authors Barry Crossno and J. Brent Bill

 

Who did you write this pamphlet for? (To put it another way, who is the audience?)

Brent: I see three audiences. One is Friends who want to make sure that, if they should stand to speak, what they are offering is truly ministry. I know a number of Friends who refrain from offering a spoken message because they are concerned that what they feel led to say may not “qualify” as such. So this little pamphlet can be an encouragement to be faithful to a leading to speak by testing it against some spiritual practices used by Friends over the years.

Another audience is Friends meetings or churches who want to provide instruction and encouragement to their attendees in what vocal ministry is. Many meetings, I think, are looking for such a tool. They need something that helps them help people learn about vocal ministry, other than just be observing it in Meeting for Worship.

A third audience is Ministry and Counsels or those in a meeting who are charged with the spiritual welfare of the meeting. These Friends could often use some guidance about how to work with that person or persons who speak in ways that are not vocal ministry or are, in fact, downright unhelpful or hurtful. Hopefully, this little booklet will be of some help to them in working through such situations.

Barry: To add to Brent’s reflections, I hope many meetings will hold a session during Meeting for Business or adult religious education about what is vocal ministry in their Monthly Meeting. Each Monthly Meeting, to a greater or lesser degree, has its own culture and experience of vocal ministry. It’s important for Friends to sit down together and unpack that culture and share those experiences so that everyone can understand how to participate and enrich the meeting. As part of that, I hope Friends will also talk about how they want to support inspired, spirit-led ministry and how to constructively and lovingly address ministry that’s painful. We included some suggestions about how to address racist, homophobic or sexist statements made during meeting for worship. Hopefully, these suggestions are helpful. Ultimately, we made these suggestions to provide tools, but more importantly to create conversations. My belief is that Friends, through dialogue grounded in Spirit, will create ways of addressing these issues that are more beautiful and healing than what we wrote. What we shared was a starting point.

 

Your pamphlet and the accompanying query-led poster go into great detail about what vocal ministry is and how to engage Spirit throughout the process. Why is it important to document a sacred process like this?



Brent: I think there are a couple of reasons to offer steps in a spiritual process – and one big danger.

One reason is that many people, myself included, find such detail and guidance helpful. Friends have often offered such information on process for how to conduct clearness committees, how to do spiritual discernment, how to clerk, and so forth. It’s my hope that the book and the poster will enable users visualize or conceptualize the process in a way that is helpful to them.

A second reason is that this detail is meant, as we consider and reflect upon it, to help us slow down and examine our leading to speak. I know for me, I many times have an immediate urge to speak… and that’s not often a good thing. I need to slow down and determine if that urge is coming primarily from my ego or intellect or is truly coming from Spirit. These “tests”…or pausing places…create, I believe, the soulful space I need to examine what I feel lead to say and if it is truly Spirit-led.

The danger, of course, of laying out a process for something as deeply spiritual as being led to speak is that the process, if followed slavishly, can actually hinder our response to Spirit. Our intent is not to lay out a step one, step two, etc. process that must be followed to the letter. Or even followed at all, in rare situations. Our first call is to be faithful to Spirit. Our hope is that the process we offer actually invites more Friends to participate in that process in the hopes that more Friends may actually find themselves participating in vocal ministry that enriches their meetings and worship groups.

Barry: What Brent just shared really speaks to me and for me in so many ways. I’ll just add that I really appreciate the framing of this question. From my standpoint, there are processes that are spiritual as Brent points out and simultaneously there is no process that in and of itself is sacred. My experience is that we can use processes to have sacred shared experiences and to thereby glimpse the sacredness of reality itself. So the question is really whether a process is helpful to you and to those with whom you are in relationship. If it helps you go deeper, use it. If it doesn’t, listen for Spirit inwardly and through Friends for what the way forward might be. My hope is that the “am I called to speak” process we’ve included in the pamphlet, a process that in various forms has been used by many Friends, will be helpful as we seek to experience liberation, insights and inspiration through communal worship.




On Vocal Ministry: Nurturing the Community through Listening and Faithfulness


Reviewed by Marty Grundy

August 1, 2020

By Barry Crossno and J. Brent Bill. Pendle Hill Pamphlets (number 460), 2019. 34 pages. $7/pamphlet.
Buy from QuakerBooks

This excellent pamphlet should be made widely available to folks who attend meetings that have silent waiting worship. It describes worship, and the importance of vocal ministry. Then it moves on to define speaking that is ministry or is not ministry: what is the difference for both listener and speaker. Finally, it concludes with suggestions for members of Ministry and Counsel Committees (or the equivalent) on how to deal with disruptive speaking and speakers.

Meeting for worship—the heart of Quaker faith and practice—is not just personal. It is very much a communal exercise. While we each bring our individual issues and the “Spirit comes to heal, help, rejoice, and care for us,” we are reminded that “Worship is also about the care of the communal body we are part of and that the Spirit is enveloping.” We are in this together.

Speaking that is vital ministry and not just talking takes “the community of faith deeper into what is helpful, loving, challenging, and timeless.” The authors identify vocal ministry as a spiritual practice: something that has a body of knowledge and experience that can guide our practice. The oft-reproduced 1997 diagram of when to speak in meeting has been updated and included in the pamphlet. Each of the steps is then clearly described, including a helpful piece on the discernment of prophetic speech versus partisan political speech—something that may be increasingly important in these times.

There is also mention of what is too often ignored: that each meeting has its own culture around vocal ministry. It would be helpful for old-timers, as well as for visitors to the meeting, to examine and articulate expectations around vocal ministry. The goal is to become clear pipes for the living water, so that our souls are refreshed and we are given strength for living faithfully in these challenging times.

The final section deals with the knotty problem of how to deal with speaking that goes beyond the superficial and is harmful or disruptive. This is for members of the Ministry and Counsel Committee (or its equivalent), and they are encouraged to read and discuss this pamphlet so as to be ready should the need arise. The authors posit a range of unhelpful speaking, and a range of possible responses. One size does not fit all. The underlying motivation is love: for the speaker, for the ones hurt, and for the health and well-being of the meeting itself. The idea is not to call out the blundering speakers but to try to call them in. A number of helpful scenarios are offered in how to address the listeners who were upset, the speaker who was admonished, and the members of Ministry and Counsel who intervened.

This pamphlet is a good companion to Steven Davison’s The Gathered Meeting (Pendle Hill Pamphlets, number 444). The two could be read and discussed consecutively as a way to deepen and strengthen our faith communities.

Marty Grundy is a member of Wellesley (Mass.) Meeting, New England Yearly Meeting.


Through Us, Not from Us : Vocal Ministry and Quaker Worship - Rex Ambler - Google Books

Through Us, Not from Us : Vocal Ministry and Quaker Worship - Rex Ambler - Google Books

Through Us, Not from Us : Vocal Ministry and Quaker Worship
-
Rex Ambler
The Kindlers, 2015 - Society of Friends - 52 pages


"All Quakers are equal in sharing responsibility for their meetings and worship, whether the ministry is in silence or through the spoken word. It makes for a telling spontaneity. Speaking out of silence is a phenomenon that hardly exists outside the Quaker community. It is an extraordinary experience, simple and immediate. but 'what thou speakest is it inwardly from God' asked George Fox one of the Friends of truth who quaked in the Spirit--hence Quakers"--Back cover.

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Three Levels of "vocal ministry", by Michael Fondanova, part 3 of 4 - QuakerInfo.com

Three Levels of "vocal ministry", by Michael Fondanova, part 3 of 4 - QuakerInfo.com

Three Levels of
"vocal ministry"

by Michael Fondanova
Part 3 of 4

Scriptural Perspectives of Service; Exegetical Perspectives on Charismata: Rom. 1:115:15-166:2311:2912:6-81 Cor. 1:77:712-14. Paul may have understood diakonia, "service" as a summary term for all ministries and for every act of ministry within the community, so that "every work produced by faith" and labor "prompted by love" (1 Thess. 1:3) of one member to another is an expression of charismata. It signifies "waiting at table" and therefore, more broadly, assistance/administration of help to physical needs. The household of Stephanas devotes itself to the "way of hospitality" (1 Cor. 16:15). Do we lead to serve or serve to lead?

Thus in Romans 12:7, the charisma is the activity of serving, recognized to be a charisma, of divine prompting, precisely because of its character as service. The function of expounding the Word of God, that is, didaskon, "imparting instruction" is based on truth revealed. "Vocal ministry" would express a new word from God as such, whereas teaching would tend to denote more a new insight into a previous word from God. "If the apostles and prophets are the foundation of the ecclesia, 'called out' whose chief cornerstone is Jesus Christ, teaching as a function must be responsible for primarily building the superstructure." (Eph. 2:20)

God establishes the community with apostolic and prophetic authority; now the same grace of God, which enables these ministries, also provides for the continuity and growth of the Body. In 1 Cor. 14:6, 26 we see companions to this teaching function are revelation, knowledge, and "vocal ministry" (see also Col. 3:16). Paul's understanding of 'teaching' recognized traditional material as authoritative, appreciated the need for interpretation, and applied charismatically to the ever-changing needs and situations of the believing community.

The community leaders must share Christ's image and character. Paul used the verb parakalon frequently, with the meaning "to console, to comfort," or "to encourage" (2 Cor. 1:3-7). Consequently, in 12:8 parakalon is one who exercises pastoral care, namely of the afflicted and distressed. The word metadidomai means "to give a part" or "to give a share of." The participle, then, means "one who gives of his/her own substance". Its primary meaning is "with simplicity, with singleness of purpose," or "wholeheartedly." This is a giving, which is sincere, without ulterior motives beyond the desire to share what one has with those who have not.

The word proistame means, "To stand before." Paul means those diligent leaders in worship and in community affairs. He who exercises leadership, or cares for others, must do so with total dedication or abandon, with diligence and zest. The charisma is not simply the exercise of leadership, but giving a lead with zest, so that the worship of the community of seekers expresses the new creation vitality and energies of life in Christ.

The word elyon means "showing mercy." The thought is of personal, direct ministry to the needy. Paul may have in mind Prov. 22:8, "God loves a cheerful giver," which he quoted in 2 Cor. 9:7. This is the concrete outworking of God's mercy freely bestowed and experienced. Paul understood mercy as an "enabling grace." For Paul, giving to the poor becomes charisma only as it is a reflection of God's generosity in Christ, an act of concern for the needy freely willed and cheerfully carried out, not a duty.

Equipping in the Community

Charisma is a particular expression of grace. Charisma is always an event of the gracious activity of God through man/woman. Charisma is the inevitable outworking of charis. Paul characterizes charisma not by the exercise of one's ability and talent but by unconditional dependence on and openness to God. Romans 12:1 makes clear that the seeker's spiritual worship involves the totality of their relationship. Not simply worship, but all life, is to be lived in conscious dependence on God. The experience of grace in Paul may not be narrow or confining within. Paul knows nothing of sacramental grace as such. The specific feature of "vocal ministry" is the application of the message in a specific situation, whether in admonition, warning, consolation, or direction.

Functions are present which can lead to offices in a definite sequence and then comes recognition by the community in ordination. An interesting point in Corinthians is that already possible abuses have arisen. "Vocal ministry" is obviously the most vulnerable to abuse because it can disrupt order. Therefore, we call it the "agreement of faith and practice." Although he is inspired, the prophet is subject to testing in this light by his associates and the assembled community, in which the appropriateness of his message has to demonstrate. God binds the teacher by the tradition entrusted to him. If there are false teachers, they come from outside the community. Therefore God admonishes the teacher to submit to his tradition as in Rom. 6:17: "But thanks be to God that you were slaves of sin but have now become obedient from the heart to the form of doctrine to which you were committed."

"No longer are we to be babes, tossed by waves and whirled about by every doctrinal gust,[and caught] in the trickery of men, who are experts in deceitful scheming." (Eph. 4:14) In the ecclesia, "called out", the primary purpose of the prophet is to equip the saints. We know the prophet as a ministry gift in many circles, and the foundation ministry of the ecclesia, "called out." The Scripture mentions those who are infantile and stupid here in contrast to maturity as described in verse 13. Psalm 107:23-27 contains a vivid description of the impression made by the raging sea. In this verse, cleverness or shrewdness is the instrument by which heretics pursue their ministry. The phrase "in love" (4:15-16) opposes the heretical stance and method. Paul bluntly accuses the heretics of bad intentions. All the more we see why, deceitful scheming stands in sharp contrast to the (v. 12) "equipping of the saints."

Prophetic Ebb and Flow Aims at Love! "Strive for the spiritual gifts, but especially that of prophesying!" (1 Cor. 14:1) We need to be aware that there is a divine ebb and flow to the prophetic ministry . . . divine ebb and flow to all things associated with the living waters. Love is the foundation of all truly spiritual matters. Where the goal is godly, zeloo, "to be zealous," means eager striving, enthusiasm, admiration, and in such contexts as above praise, glory. Love is the underlying idea, and means an "emotional" going out to a person, idea, or cause.

"If someone speaks in tongues, then it should be two or at most three occasionally, and one after another, and someone should interpret." (1 Cor. 14:27) The Spirit does not cause the extinguishing of his people or his work. Accordingly, the matter-of-fact rule is "by turns," and not more than the community can stand. Tongues and interpretation are different from "vocal ministry." We have heard ecclesia, "called out" say that there are to be no more than three prophecies in a service. However, Paul has set these guidelines for the ministry of tongues and interpretation.

"But if there is no interpreter present (or: but if the person is speaking is not an interpreter), then one should remain silent in ecclesia, 'called out' and speak only for oneself and to God. In the case of prophets, however, two or three should speak, and the others should test what is said." (Verses 28 & 29) This implies that there is a ministry of tongues and interpretation that takes place in the ecclesia, "called out" assembly. Then there is a ministry where the prophets begin to speak in the congregation. When Paul says, "the others should test," a question arises. Why should it be necessary, or possible, for "vocal ministry" to be "tested," when it is surely understandable in itself and provides its own authority? I believe that it means the other prophets or the elder prophets should "test" the word, rather than that the assembly should judge it. Accordingly, it means, "Let the elders, who know the ebb and flow of the spirit, discern the word."

"But if someone else who is sitting by receives a revelation, let the first speaker be silent." (verse 30) Incidentally, this verse shows it is customary for the speaker to stand. Therefore, we surmise that if anyone receives revelation; let the first prophet be still. This is where the Spirit is bringing us into maturity, especially in team ministry. I have had the privilege of ministering in team ministry and in a company of prophets while traveling around the country. This type of ebb and flow can only be developed out of a covenant relationship (aim at love!), developing sensitivity to the Waters of the Spirit, and teaching people how to flow together in the streams of God. The days of the one-man show are over. God is going to speak through a plurality of elders in bringing forth the full counsel of God. However, with a senior prophet in charge, we will see what occurred with Samuel. Samuel stood over the prophets as one appointed over them, orchestrating and keeping the order and the ebb and flow so there would be no real conflict. "You can surely all prophesy one after the other, so that all may learn and all be exhorted. The spirits of the prophets are under the prophets' control. For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace." (verses 31-33)

The disturbance referred to in these verses could have been between the prophet who was speaking and the one who was rising to his feet. I like what the early Quakers did. When the word of the Lord came, they acknowledged the voice of the Bridegroom by having everyone stand. When Quakers felt that it was not His voice, the elders would remain sitting, which meant the congregation knew to put that word on the shelf. We also need to limit our use of "Amen" or "Praise the Lord" to affirming only those genuine words of the Lord.

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