Can We Really Inherit Trauma?
Headlines suggest that the epigenetic marks of trauma can be passed from one generation to the next. But the evidence, at least in humans, is circumstantial at best.
A Civil War prisoner is examined at the U.S. General Hospital in Annapolis, Md., in 1864.Credit...Library of Congress
By Benedict Carey
Dec. 10, 2018
In mid-October, researchers in California published a study of Civil War prisoners that came to a remarkable conclusion. Male children of abused war prisoners were about 10 percent more likely to die than their peers were in any given year after middle age, the study reported.
The findings, the authors concluded, supported an “epigenetic explanation.” The idea is that trauma can leave a chemical mark on a person’s genes, which then is passed down to subsequent generations. The mark doesn’t directly damage the gene; there’s no mutation. Instead it alters the mechanism by which the gene is converted into functioning proteins, or expressed. The alteration isn’t genetic. It’s epigenetic.후생적
The field of epigenetics gained momentum about a decade ago, when scientists reported that children who were exposed in the womb to the Dutch Hunger Winter, a period of famine toward the end of World War II, carried a particular chemical mark, or epigenetic signature, on one of their genes. The researchers later linked that finding to differences in the children’s health later in life, including higher-than-average body mass.
The excitement since then has only intensified, generating more studies — of the descendants of Holocaust survivors, of victims of poverty — that hint at the heritability of trauma. If these studies hold up, they would suggest that we inherit some trace of our parents’ and even grandparents’ experience, particularly their suffering, which in turn modifies our own day-to-day health — and perhaps our children’s, too.
But behind the scenes, the work has touched off a bitter dispute among researchers that could stunt the enterprise in its infancy. Critics contend that the biology implied by such studies simply is not plausible. Epigenetics researchers counter that their evidence is solid, even if the biology is not worked out.
“These are, in fact, extraordinary claims, and they are being advanced on less than ordinary evidence,” said Kevin Mitchell, an associate professor of genetics and neurology at Trinity College, Dublin. “This is a malady in modern science: the more extraordinary and sensational and apparently revolutionary the claim, the lower the bar for the evidence on which it is based, when the opposite should be true.”
Investigators in the field say the critique is premature: the science is still young and feeling its way forward. Studies in mice, in particular, have been offered as evidence of such trauma-transmission, and as a model for studying the mechanisms. “The effects we’ve found have been small but remarkably consistent, and significant,” said Moshe Szyf, a professor of pharmacology at McGill University. “This is the way science works. It’s imperfect at first and gets stronger the more research you do.”
The debate centers on genetics and biology. Direct effects are one thing: when a pregnant woman drinks heavily, it can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. This happens because stress on a pregnant mother’s body is shared to some extent with the fetus, in this case interfering directly with the normal developmental program in utero.
Editors’ Picks
But no one can explain exactly how, say, changes in brain cells caused by abuse could be communicated to fully formed sperm or egg cells before conception. And that’s just the first challenge. After conception, when sperm meets egg, a natural process of cleansing, or “rebooting,” occurs, stripping away most chemical marks on the genes. Finally, as the fertilized egg grows and develops, a symphony of genetic reshuffling occurs, as cells specialize into brain cells, skin cells, and the rest. How does a signature of trauma survive all of that?
One working theory is based on animal research. In a series of recent studies, scientists at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, led by Tracy Bale, have raised male mice in difficult environments, by periodically tilting their cages, or by leaving the lights on at night. This kind of upbringing, effectively a traumatic childhood, changes the subsequent behavior of those mice’s genes in a way that alters how they manage surges of stress hormones.
And that change, in turn, is strongly associated with alterations in how their offspring handle stress: namely, the young mice are numbed, or less reactive, to the hormones compared to control animals, said Dr. Bale, director of the university’s Center for Epigenetic Research in Child Health and Brain Development. “These are clear, consistent findings,” she said. “The field has advanced dramatically in just the past five years.”
Perhaps the best explanation for how such trauma marks could be attached to a father’s sperm cells comes from Oliver Rando at the University of Massachusetts. His studies, also in mice, have zeroed in on the epididymis, a tube near the testicles where sperm cells load before ejaculation. There, they learn to swim over a period of days, and their genes can be marked, said Dr. Rando.
The molecules that affect the changes appear to be “small RNAs,” fragments of genetic material that scientists are still learning about, Dr. Rando said.
“This tube produces small RNAs and ships them to the sperm as they develop, suggesting that there exists a place that senses the dad’s environmental conditions and can change the package RNAs delivered through the sperm to the baby,” Dr. Rando said. He makes no broad claims beyond that.
Other researchers have attempted to fill out the picture. Once those RNA packages arrive at the epididymis, the hypothesis goes, they prompt a of cascade of changes at conception that evade the stripping, or rebooting, process and the subsequent reshuffling during early development.
The critics are far from persuaded. “It’s all very nice work, and yes, there are changes in the testicular cells,” said John M. Greally, a professor of genetics, medicine, and pediatrics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine. “But as usual, the story that’s often told is overblown relative to the results, and too much causality is claimed.”
And this debate concerns only the animal research. The human studies thus far are much less persuasive, most experts agree, and have identified no plausible mechanism for epigenetic transmission. Some of the studies have focused not on small RNAs but on an altogether different chemical signature, called cytosine methylation, that could very well be added after conception, not before, Dr. Rando said.
The idea that we carry some biological trace of our ancestors’ pain has a strong emotional appeal. It resonates with the feelings that arise when one views images of famine, war or slavery. And it seems to buttress psychodynamic narratives about trauma, and how its legacy can reverberate through families and down the ages. But for now, and for many scientists, the research in epigenetics falls well short of demonstrating that past human cruelties affect our physiology today, in any predictable or consistent way.
Earlier reporting on epigenetics
![]()
Growing Pains for Field of Epigenetics as Some Call for Overhaul
July 1, 2016
![]()
The Famine Ended 70 Years Ago, but Dutch Genes Still Bear Scars
Jan. 31, 2018
![]()
Fathers May Pass Down More Than Just Genes, Study Suggests
Dec. 3, 2015
Benedict Carey has been a science reporter for The Times since 2004. He has also written three books, “How We Learn” about the cognitive science of learning; “Poison Most Vial” and “Island of the Unknowns,” science mysteries for middle schoolers.
By Benedict Carey
Dec. 10, 2018
In mid-October, researchers in California published a study of Civil War prisoners that came to a remarkable conclusion. Male children of abused war prisoners were about 10 percent more likely to die than their peers were in any given year after middle age, the study reported.
The findings, the authors concluded, supported an “epigenetic explanation.” The idea is that trauma can leave a chemical mark on a person’s genes, which then is passed down to subsequent generations. The mark doesn’t directly damage the gene; there’s no mutation. Instead it alters the mechanism by which the gene is converted into functioning proteins, or expressed. The alteration isn’t genetic. It’s epigenetic.후생적
The field of epigenetics gained momentum about a decade ago, when scientists reported that children who were exposed in the womb to the Dutch Hunger Winter, a period of famine toward the end of World War II, carried a particular chemical mark, or epigenetic signature, on one of their genes. The researchers later linked that finding to differences in the children’s health later in life, including higher-than-average body mass.
The excitement since then has only intensified, generating more studies — of the descendants of Holocaust survivors, of victims of poverty — that hint at the heritability of trauma. If these studies hold up, they would suggest that we inherit some trace of our parents’ and even grandparents’ experience, particularly their suffering, which in turn modifies our own day-to-day health — and perhaps our children’s, too.
But behind the scenes, the work has touched off a bitter dispute among researchers that could stunt the enterprise in its infancy. Critics contend that the biology implied by such studies simply is not plausible. Epigenetics researchers counter that their evidence is solid, even if the biology is not worked out.
“These are, in fact, extraordinary claims, and they are being advanced on less than ordinary evidence,” said Kevin Mitchell, an associate professor of genetics and neurology at Trinity College, Dublin. “This is a malady in modern science: the more extraordinary and sensational and apparently revolutionary the claim, the lower the bar for the evidence on which it is based, when the opposite should be true.”
Investigators in the field say the critique is premature: the science is still young and feeling its way forward. Studies in mice, in particular, have been offered as evidence of such trauma-transmission, and as a model for studying the mechanisms. “The effects we’ve found have been small but remarkably consistent, and significant,” said Moshe Szyf, a professor of pharmacology at McGill University. “This is the way science works. It’s imperfect at first and gets stronger the more research you do.”
The debate centers on genetics and biology. Direct effects are one thing: when a pregnant woman drinks heavily, it can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. This happens because stress on a pregnant mother’s body is shared to some extent with the fetus, in this case interfering directly with the normal developmental program in utero.
Editors’ Picks
But no one can explain exactly how, say, changes in brain cells caused by abuse could be communicated to fully formed sperm or egg cells before conception. And that’s just the first challenge. After conception, when sperm meets egg, a natural process of cleansing, or “rebooting,” occurs, stripping away most chemical marks on the genes. Finally, as the fertilized egg grows and develops, a symphony of genetic reshuffling occurs, as cells specialize into brain cells, skin cells, and the rest. How does a signature of trauma survive all of that?
One working theory is based on animal research. In a series of recent studies, scientists at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, led by Tracy Bale, have raised male mice in difficult environments, by periodically tilting their cages, or by leaving the lights on at night. This kind of upbringing, effectively a traumatic childhood, changes the subsequent behavior of those mice’s genes in a way that alters how they manage surges of stress hormones.
And that change, in turn, is strongly associated with alterations in how their offspring handle stress: namely, the young mice are numbed, or less reactive, to the hormones compared to control animals, said Dr. Bale, director of the university’s Center for Epigenetic Research in Child Health and Brain Development. “These are clear, consistent findings,” she said. “The field has advanced dramatically in just the past five years.”
Perhaps the best explanation for how such trauma marks could be attached to a father’s sperm cells comes from Oliver Rando at the University of Massachusetts. His studies, also in mice, have zeroed in on the epididymis, a tube near the testicles where sperm cells load before ejaculation. There, they learn to swim over a period of days, and their genes can be marked, said Dr. Rando.
The molecules that affect the changes appear to be “small RNAs,” fragments of genetic material that scientists are still learning about, Dr. Rando said.
“This tube produces small RNAs and ships them to the sperm as they develop, suggesting that there exists a place that senses the dad’s environmental conditions and can change the package RNAs delivered through the sperm to the baby,” Dr. Rando said. He makes no broad claims beyond that.
Other researchers have attempted to fill out the picture. Once those RNA packages arrive at the epididymis, the hypothesis goes, they prompt a of cascade of changes at conception that evade the stripping, or rebooting, process and the subsequent reshuffling during early development.
The critics are far from persuaded. “It’s all very nice work, and yes, there are changes in the testicular cells,” said John M. Greally, a professor of genetics, medicine, and pediatrics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine. “But as usual, the story that’s often told is overblown relative to the results, and too much causality is claimed.”
And this debate concerns only the animal research. The human studies thus far are much less persuasive, most experts agree, and have identified no plausible mechanism for epigenetic transmission. Some of the studies have focused not on small RNAs but on an altogether different chemical signature, called cytosine methylation, that could very well be added after conception, not before, Dr. Rando said.
The idea that we carry some biological trace of our ancestors’ pain has a strong emotional appeal. It resonates with the feelings that arise when one views images of famine, war or slavery. And it seems to buttress psychodynamic narratives about trauma, and how its legacy can reverberate through families and down the ages. But for now, and for many scientists, the research in epigenetics falls well short of demonstrating that past human cruelties affect our physiology today, in any predictable or consistent way.
Earlier reporting on epigenetics
Growing Pains for Field of Epigenetics as Some Call for Overhaul
July 1, 2016
The Famine Ended 70 Years Ago, but Dutch Genes Still Bear Scars
Jan. 31, 2018
Fathers May Pass Down More Than Just Genes, Study Suggests
Dec. 3, 2015
Benedict Carey has been a science reporter for The Times since 2004. He has also written three books, “How We Learn” about the cognitive science of learning; “Poison Most Vial” and “Island of the Unknowns,” science mysteries for middle schoolers.
===
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DJS commented December 12, 2018
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
Times Pick
@Grittenhouse
Like you, I knew , and know Holocaust survivors, intimately, as my neighborhood was home to a number of Holocaust survivors. My neighbor's parents had adopted twins who had been subjects of Mengele's experiments.
Many of my friends were and are children of Holocaust survivors, as are my two brothers-in-law and and sister-in-law.
My school brought in speakers who went into great detail regarding the horrors to which they were subjected, and showed us their concentration camp tattoos. The school showed young children graphic concentration camp footage , which included of piles of emaciated corpses.
As a child, I had nightmares that I was in a concentration camp, and nightmares that I was being chased by the Germans, which was a direct result of the concentration camp footage and the firsthand stories of the speakers. I don't know what the school was thinking in terms of exposing small children to this.
My brothers-in-law, sister-in-law, and some of my best friends are the children of survivors.
Many people who were and are close to me were either Holocaust survivors or the children of survivors, so I understand how the trauma of your loves ones has affected you , as it it has affected me, as well.
9 Replies7 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 12, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
Times Pick
@Edward Blau
It certainly could be that the children were heavier because the mothers overfed them. My brother-in-law's parents were Aushwitz survivors. His parents used to feed him and his sister sticks of butter when they the children were young. They were heavy because the parents stuffed them with food because they were terrified that their children would die of starvation.while these children were born and raised in Toronto, where there was no food shortage.
My mother, who was born in New York in 1934, and whose parents were not Holocaust survivors, was infuriated by the
stockpile of nonperishables that she found in my brother-in-law and sister's pantry.She could not understand why there was a stockpile of food, while I , who was born in New York in 1962, understood perfectly well that my brother-in-law had been taught to stockpile food, and to overeat by his traumatized Holocaust survivor parents who had been starved while they were concentration camp inmates, and who had seen others around them die of starvation.
What I can't understand is why my mother could not understand this, and felt that she had the right to go through my sister and now ex-brother-in-law's pantry .
The combination of a mother -in-law whose motto was :"You can never be too rich or too thin " and a brother-in-law whose parents trained him to overeat out of fear of starvation was not a good one ,given that my mother believes that there is no greater crime than being overweight.
15 RecommendShare
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Jeff commented December 11, 2018
J
Jeff
new york
Dec. 11, 2018
I question the strong skepticism of the old-school scientists about this phenomenon. I don't disagree that all theories and new discoveries should be treated with a questioning approach until definitive proof is provided. That is the basis of the scientific method. But there is something different in the quotes of some folks in this article. They seem to dismiss the possibility because there isn't evidence of how it would work already known. That seems to be backward. In all of science, the effect of something is often seen before the mechanism is understood. To be so dismissive of the experimental findings to date because we don't yet know exactly how it works is anti-scientific. It should inspire curiosity and analysis and testing. Not the back of your hand.
2 Replies98 RecommendShareFlag
Ed commented December 11, 2018
E
Ed
Wi
Dec. 11, 2018
Genetically, no, you cannot inherit trauma. Again, despite more than a century of proving the contrary this is again another expression of Lamarckism.
On the other hand, from a psychosocial sense, you can!
Generations can "pass down" their sense of grievance, hate and victimhood through oral traditions, religion and family upbringing.
5 Replies57 RecommendShareFlag
Jay commented December 11, 2018
J
Jay
Richmond, VA
Dec. 11, 2018
If we can inherit trauma, can we also inherit resilience? It seems if one can be inherited, the other can too.
52 RecommendShareFlag
cheryl commented December 11, 2018
C
cheryl
yorktown
Dec. 11, 2018
Sorting out environmental effects, patterns of behavior passed down in families and communities, genetic information and these possible epigenetic changes is a massive challenge.
The evidence isn't there -- but in many recent discoveries, physical changes to human brains ( and guts and other organs) are being identified which would have been missed in the not so distant past. Everything Freud said once seemed to make sense. Experts once blamed serious autism on maternal coldness. And let 's not forget all those women subject to "hysteria."
So, the research should roll on. we'll learn.
1 Reply39 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 11, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 11, 2018
@patentca
"My late mother survived extreme trauma as a child, from the ages of about 8 through 11 she lived under Allied arial bombardment day and night of civilian residential areas of Berlin, Germany. She was deeply scarred by those horrors (there were plenty)".
"Horrors (there were plenty) "
Imagine the horror and terror experienced by the 8-11 year olds who were dragged away in the middle of the night, crammed into cattle cars, spent days without food or water, who found themselves facing terrifying barking dogs and guards when they arrived at Aushwitz..
Imagine the terror they felt when their parents were shot before their eyes, Imagine their terror when their heads were shaved , before they were dragged to the gas chambers.
Imagine the terror and horror they felt when they felt the searing pain of numbers being tattooed into their arms.
Imagine the horror that those 8-11 years olds felt as they gasped for breath, and clawed the walls, before the Zyklon-B overcame them, after which their tiny bodies were shoveled up and crammed into the crematoria.
Imagine the horror of the twins who were subjects of Mengele's experiments.
Three of my siblings are children of concentration camp survivors. The parents had had spouses and children who had been slaughtered by the Germans. I grew up surrounded by people with tattoos on their arms.
The concentration camp survivors woke up screaming in the middle of the night & still do.
The allies were not to blame.
37 RecommendShareFlag
DH commented December 12, 2018
D
DH
Boston
Dec. 12, 2018
I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention the very obvious evolutionary purpose of this process. The developing child needs to be prepared for the particular environment it will inhabit after birth (whether epigenetically or not). This has been proven and is well understood in other aspects - for example with food and language. To some extent, babies get accustomed to the food their pregnant mother eats and show a preference for it after they're born, as an adaptation to the environment. Same goes for language. Babies show a preference for the language their mother spoke while pregnant. Humans live in pretty much all biomes and environments on earth, in all kinds of different cultures eating, speaking and living differently. So a baby needs to prepare for the specific environment it will be born into, and then spends its childhood absorbing and learning about its culture (at the expense of anything "foreign" and thus potentially dangerous).
With all this in mind, it would make sense that a baby born into times of stress and trouble should be posed to better deal with such a life once born. Any advantages passed on from the parents would be beneficial. Just look at the famine study. The babies were born with a higher likelihood of obesity, because their bodies are pre-programmed to retain calories in a time of scarcity. Or the mice - the babies are born desensitized to stress so they can deal with it better. It all fits in. We just need to figure out how it's happening.
30 RecommendShareFlag
James Osborne commented December 11, 2018
J
James Osborne
Los Angeles
Dec. 11, 2018
Sounds like most disputes in the early part of any scientific endeavor especially astrophysics. Let the advocates continue to do their epigenetic studies and we will see where it goes. Little is understood about the epigenetics- and its critics should remember that little is understood about the workings of the neurological system either- but that has never stopped neurologists from practicing.
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patentcad commented December 11, 2018
P
patentcad
Chester, NY
Dec. 11, 2018
My late mother survived extreme trauma as a child, from the ages of about 8 through 11 she lived under Allied arial bombardment day and night of civilian residential areas of Berlin, Germany. She was deeply scarred by those horrors (there were plenty) and ultimately I believe that transferred to me to some degree. Not genetically, more from my own experiences of being startled awake as a child in the wee hours by my Mom's screaming and crying from the nightmares linked directly to her childhood war traumas. Researchers trying establish an elusive and/or dubious genetic component would do well to more closely examine the experiential factors I describe above. Of those there is no doubt, at least to those of us who have lived it. The price of war is so much higher than most Americans will ever know; 99% of us have never experienced it on the ground, and maybe that's what makes us so hung-ho for military action. My late Mom (RIP) harbored no such illusions, nor do I, and that was at once curse and a gift for us both.
9 Replies27 RecommendShareFlag
Pete in Downtown commented December 11, 2018
P
Pete in Downtown
back in town
Dec. 11, 2018
The major conundrum in trying to assign mental health outcomes to epigenetic changes is that the traumatized parent is usually also involved in the upbringing of the children. How do we determine what is nature (epigenetic changes) and what is nurture? We know that parents exposed to traumatic experiences have a higher likelihood of exhibiting signs and symptoms of impaired mental health after the trauma (the very definition of PTSD - post-traumatic stress disorder). Being brought up by a parent who suffers from mental illness increases the risk of the child to experience traumatic situations; having a parent who suffers panic attacks, exhibits domestic violence, becomes drug or alcohol dependent, or attempts suicide can readily induce trauma-related illnesses in the child, and well into adulthood. In many situations, that makes differentiating nature vs. nurture difficult if not impossible.
To me, the important perspective is this: early detection and treatment of trauma-induced changes can be of considerable benefit both for the current and future generations. Lastly, even if some trauma-related changes are fully epigenetic in nature, that doesn't mean we just give up, because it's now all predetermined - it is not.
1 Reply23 RecommendShareFlag
Grittenhouse commented December 11, 2018
G
Grittenhouse
Philadelphia
Dec. 11, 2018
It doesn't need to be genetic to be inherited. My mother was traumatized by growing up poor, by growing up in the Great Depression, by not having enough food, and most of all, by having had Polio. My father was traumatized by having pneumonia as a toddler, and by having parents who were critical and not emotionally supportive, openly loving.
In other words, the milieu of their pre-war generation, were imposed on my baby-boomer generation, whether we liked it or not. And those lessons stay learned. They are imprinted deep into the psyche and thereby into the body. Add to that the genetic imprint of more distant ancestors and the traumas they survived, or didn't, and it's a wonder we can walk upright or dare to be happy.
1 Reply22 RecommendShareFlag
R Nelson commented December 11, 2018
R
R Nelson
GAP
Dec. 11, 2018
@Ed
Good point. Generations do indeed pass down ways of believing and behaving; witness the racial attitudes of modern-day Southerners who still nurse the resentment of losing the Civil War. The research is intriguing, to be sure, but the article makes no mention of the more mundane possibility that, in the case of the Dutch Hunger, for example, parents who survive starvation would make sure that their offspring are well fed, perhaps too well fed, or that the kiddos are encouraged to finish what's on their plates, establishing a lifelong habit of overeating that would account for their heavier than average weight in adulthood. And there may be other reasons for the chemical markers the researchers have observed, and it may be that everybody has chemical markers not yet researched and having nothing to do with trauma or everything to do with the traumas minor and major that everybody experiences in life. But instead of watching with an open mind, interest, and curiosity to see how the evidence shakes out, we will have baloney artists blathering as if this were established "science," complete with a carefully crafted lingo earnestly explaining their alternative therapy "cures," wingnuts advocating preventive "treatments," breathing "therapies," factually wrong explanations of how the body works, encouraging people to be contemptuous of the "medical establishment" and ferociously defending their pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo, all to make a buck off the gullible.
21 RecommendShareFlag
August West commented December 11, 2018
A
August West
Midwest
Dec. 11, 2018
Can we eliminate stories with headlines that are written in the form of questions?
Whenever I see one, I assume that the story isn't strong enough to support any given thesis or point of view. And I"m seeing a boatload lately in NYT.
I would appreciate this comment being sent to the appropriate editor.
OK?
20 RecommendShareFlag
Margot lane commented December 12, 2018
M
Margot lane
Mass
Dec. 12, 2018
While I cannot attest to what occurs in the womb, learned behavior from PTSD experienced by one’s parents seems an obvious struggle to me: the way one holds oneself, what is said and not, silent stoicism, addictions...the very act of how one speaks all effect a child, without one even knowing it. Keeping Calm and Carrying On can work as a survival strategy, but then what, when it is all over, how do you treat yourself (or not) and your child? I wish more emphasis had been placed In the article about ways of breaking the cycle, as this is a rather unnerving piece to read.
3 Replies20 RecommendShareFlag
Maria commented December 11, 2018
M
Maria
Houston
Dec. 11, 2018
Exposure to toxins, radiation or endocrine disruptors can harm both sperm and egg cells, causing early cell death (such as premature menopause) or damage that leads to birth defects in the next generation. The damage can be at the level of the gene (DNA) or other parts of the cell, and the effect of the damage does not have to look like the effect on the parent.
The article mostly talks about sperm and eggs, but some of the best epigenetic studies show changes in embryos or fetuses, with genes being switched on or switched off depending on the environment. In those studies, there are often striking similarities in how genes work in mothers and their babies. For example, embryos from an extremely nervous mouse pair are grown in a very chill mouse mom, and the baby mice are more relaxed, and have different genetic expression, than baby mice from similar embryos that grew in the anxious mother.
I see this as an opportunity for cool scientific research and real life interventions. For example, a pregnant mom in a class with a high risk of death in labor could choose a hospital that follows the guideline from the California Maternal Quality Care Collaborative, but her insurer, family, state, or employer could also help with help (childcare, financial help, massage, altered work assignments) to decrease her stress in pregnancy.
17 RecommendShareFlag
Houstonian commented December 11, 2018
H
Houstonian
Houston, Texas
Dec. 11, 2018
Questions about trauma heritability are not new nor even a decade old. As long ago as the 1950's, researchers inquired into this and found, e.g., that the children of Holocaust survivors were more susceptible to trauma.
Now, whether trauma heritability is founded in epigenetics or good old fashion nurture (because one can experience secondary trauma without being related to the individual with the traumatic exposure) is subject to debate and is worthy of further study.
That said, I have one request: might it be possible for Times reporters to engage in some actual database research before declaring an idea revolutionary or new? Just because an individual reporter hasn't heard of a research question before says more about that reporter than the research.
17 RecommendShareFlag
L commented December 11, 2018
L
L
Seattle
Dec. 11, 2018
"Critics contend that the biology implied by such studies simply is not plausible. "
I can't stand it when scientists say this. "We don't already know it so we don't believe it." Nothing will ever get discovered that way!
How about: "That is an interesting connection and one that could have great explanatory power. I don't understand the causal mechanism here but I look forward to hearing more about it."
2 Replies17 RecommendShareFlag
Betsy Todd commented December 11, 2018
B
Betsy Todd
Hastings-on-Hudson, NY
Dec. 11, 2018
I agree with Jeff - scientific curiosity should prevail. But I'm sad to see that as usual, some continue to try out theories on non-human animals, despite reams of data regarding the inapplicability of such experiments to our species. But of course it's easy to traumatize small animals in a lab and then see what happens.
Aren't there enough human victims of severe trauma to study? Of course clinical research is more difficult and complicated than animal experiments, but it's also more true to the real world.
1 Reply16 RecommendShareFlag
Keith Landherr commented December 11, 2018
K
Keith Landherr
Vancouver, bC
Dec. 11, 2018
My response is simple: this article fails to include much of the other research on epigenetics that exists. If you are interested in the effects of trauma upon our genome there is much to explore in this field.
Disagreements within human science about research abounds, this does not mean that skepticism equates with disproving a theory. Skepticism should mean more research. That is how science works. Research should include completing a literature search on the subject which this author did not complete. This article would receive a “C” level at an undergraduate school by any professor and require additional research to raise the grade.
If you are interested in this subject, do more research on the epigenetic effects of trauma, the research has been published.
16 RecommendShareFlag
Dejah commented December 11, 2018
D
Dejah
Williamsburg, VA
Dec. 11, 2018
Generational abuse has has a way of being just that: generational.
You don't have to be around long to notice the propensity among survivors of generational abuse to develop "stress related" diseases, from high blood pressure, to auto-immune problems, to cancers. It's epidemic. The worse the abuse, the worse the health problems. The abusers abuse and the people they abuse *get sick.*
I don't know why there is all this hype about male sperm. A woman carries a fetus for almost 10 months. If a woman is being abused--and how many women are emotionally and psychologically stressed, if not outright abused--awash in stress hormones, *none* of that will cross the placenta and activate the genome of the baby?
Oh, oh, but that's "anecdotal!"
The plural of anecdote are data. Check the quote. It's correct. Gather enough anecdotes together and yes, they surely are data. That's how data are formed.
3 Replies15 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 12, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
Times Pick
@Edward Blau
It certainly could be that the children were heavier because the mothers overfed them. My brother-in-law's parents were Aushwitz survivors. His parents used to feed him and his sister sticks of butter when they the children were young. They were heavy because the parents stuffed them with food because they were terrified that their children would die of starvation.while these children were born and raised in Toronto, where there was no food shortage.
My mother, who was born in New York in 1934, and whose parents were not Holocaust survivors, was infuriated by the
stockpile of nonperishables that she found in my brother-in-law and sister's pantry.She could not understand why there was a stockpile of food, while I , who was born in New York in 1962, understood perfectly well that my brother-in-law had been taught to stockpile food, and to overeat by his traumatized Holocaust survivor parents who had been starved while they were concentration camp inmates, and who had seen others around them die of starvation.
What I can't understand is why my mother could not understand this, and felt that she had the right to go through my sister and now ex-brother-in-law's pantry .
The combination of a mother -in-law whose motto was :"You can never be too rich or too thin " and a brother-in-law whose parents trained him to overeat out of fear of starvation was not a good one ,given that my mother believes that there is no greater crime than being overweight.
15 RecommendShareFlag
Tom M. commented December 12, 2018
T
Tom M.
Colorado
Dec. 12, 2018
This is a fascinating topic and I agree that the research is very young and needs more studies. If anyone is looking for an amazing read on trauma and its impacts on individuals and society look for “The Body Keeps the Score” by Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D. It may open your eyes to things that are happening all around us and maybe have even happened to ourselves. As tough as some of the stories are, there is an underlying message of hope that we can change ourselves and society through skillful guidance.
15 RecommendShareFlag
Mark R. commented December 11, 2018
M
Mark R.
Rockville MD
Dec. 11, 2018
It is not hard for me to come up with solely environmental ways that trauma to a parent can be passed to a child: nutrition, health habits, approach to challenges are all things that could affect a child's health their entire life.
I might believe epigenetic explainations if only children not brought up by their biological parents were included in the study. Short of that it is just evidence that trauma may on average make someone a worse parent.
14 RecommendShareFlag
Keith Landherr commented December 11, 2018
K
Keith Landherr
Vancouver, bC
Dec. 11, 2018
There has been some fairly important research on multigenerational trauma and epigenetic markers that has been conducted in Israel. You are right about the nature part, because the research reveals that families with resilient traits and coping mechanisms have less of the epigenetic markers than families without these nurturing skills.
This article is slanted in my view and does not properly look at much of the research that has occurred in this area. Understanding the exact nature of how the genome is effected by outside influences and how specific occurrences create change will take many more years of research. Identifying how the human condition effects this will always be subject to debate because the human condition is filled with confounding variables and subject to endless interpretations.
Why shouldn’t we believe that humans effect humans in a genetic way? It just makes sense. This is why Israel has spent millions of dollars documenting the effects of the trauma histories on the generations of holocaust survivors that includes their families.
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W commented December 11, 2018
W
W
Minneapolis, MN
Dec. 11, 2018
This article doesn't say anything about 'nature vs. nurture'. It is obvious to any child of a trauma victim that they are influenced by the parent's psychology. Every child of an alcoholic will tell you that they were influenced by the parent's drinking.
The sort of correlation explanations given in this article are junk science. They are not considering the possibility of other common factors at work. According to Shah (Jan/Feb 2011): “Accutane [a common treatment for acne] has long been linked to depression, both anecdotally and in studies. But new research suggests that mental health troubles may stem from having bad skin in the first place. ¶ One in four teens with severe acne has suicidal thoughts, compared to one in ten clear-skinned peers, reports a study in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology. Adolescents with bad skin were also more likely to be bullied, to struggle in school, and to feel disconnected from friends and family.” (p. 18)
Cite:
Shah, Sajel K. Deep Scars. Psychology Today. Jan/Feb 2011, Vol. 44, No. 1. p. 18
13 RecommendShareFlag
Suzy Q commented December 11, 2018
S
Suzy Q
Yonkers
Dec. 11, 2018
“The Dutch Hunger Winter, a period of famine toward the end of World War II...” interesting choice of words for the deliberate starvation of the Dutch by the Germans as punishment for rescue of Allied pilots whose planes had been shot down. Suggest Benedict Carey read pertinent chapter in Lynn Olson’s “Last Hope Island” for historical perspective.
2 Replies13 RecommendShareFlag
nlitinme commented December 11, 2018
N
nlitinme
san diego
Dec. 11, 2018
I believe what is known about the biochemistry of epigenetics is a very small quantity, compared to the vastness of the field. We are infants attempting to explain a phenomena that has yet to be mainstreamed in a meaningful way. Perhaps it is our present culture involving scientific endeavors: profitability/industry figures prominantly- concerning the resources available, quality of the research- that molds how and what we put resources into. This would explain why so many studies concern Big Pharma and their efforts to profit
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Paul Johnson commented December 12, 2018
P
Paul Johnson
USA / FR
Dec. 12, 2018
@Grittenhouse Family members to whom I am married experience anxiety traceable to trauma due to exposure of a grandparent to nerve gas in WW1. It is painful to image the generational outfall of forced immigrants around the world today. Love is truly the answer.
11 RecommendShareFlag
4Average Joe commented December 11, 2018
4
4Average Joe
usa
Dec. 11, 2018
The Jews in the 1940's polish ghettoes, the soldiers coming back to England, France, Germany after WWI, WWII, The survivors in Honduras, or the Pinochet regime. the US soldiers in Vietnam, The Hutu and Tutsi populations after massacres. These all have at least social coordinates in the next generation, in diplomacy and war preparation, in internal and external approaches to world view and how life works.
1 Reply10 RecommendShareFlag
Nina Mayo commented December 12, 2018
N
Nina Mayo
Eucumbene Cove, Australia
Dec. 12, 2018
@Margot lane My father worked in the Norwegian Underground during WWII. For the rest of his life he was jumpy, anxious, smoked to excess, drank to excess plus a volatile temper certainly shaded our childhood in ways it would take to long to tell. My middle sister was diagnosed with acute schitzophrenia which certainly shades our lives even now when we are in our 70's.
10 RecommendShareFlag
patentcad commented December 12, 2018
P
patentcad
Chester, NY
Dec. 12, 2018
@DJS Where did I ever blame the Allies? I'm amazed anybody went there, but in retrospect I shouldn't be. 11 year old little girls are war victims regardless, even when they're on the wrong side. Your attempt to devalue my Mom's suffering by the preposterous and deeply insulting insinuation that the death and suffering of Holocaust victims disqualifies her experience underscores my earlier point: on top of being a war victim herself, she later endured the wrong-headed rants of people like you when she came to the USA, so she stuffed her war experiences. Your commentary diminishes all concerned, but sadly nobody more than yourself and the memory of victims you purportedly speak for. I'm quite confident many of those departed souls would be shaking their heads along with me reading your words.
9 Replies10 RecommendShareFlag
glorybe commented December 11, 2018
G
glorybe
New York
Dec. 11, 2018
Not mentioned is the psychological fact that children of traumatized parents absorb and respond to those conditions. Since mind and body work together, brain chemistry and functioning has physical, psychological and even spiritual components in the areas of resiliency and adaptation. The brains of children are plastic and much wiring and pruning results from earliest experiences.
9 RecommendShareFlag
Kay commented December 11, 2018
K
Kay
Melbourne
Dec. 11, 2018
It makes sense to me that biological adjustments might be made as a foetus develops based on their parents experience of the world. As part of that process if a parent has suffered trauma, why not prepare a child to better adapt to and survive in what is likely to be a difficult environment? It may be difficult to prove scientifically yet, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or isn’t worth investigating. Standards of proof in science (and in law for that matter) only tap those things that are extremely obvious and we have found a way to measure. Some things are more complex and are less easily reduced to simple cause and effect. In any event, where children live with a traumatised parent, the effects of that trauma will be shared through how that experience has altered the nurturing abilities of the parent. As the child of a Vietnam veteran who couldn’t get the right treatment for 30 years and will never be cured, I can say that inter-generational trauma exists. Not everyone is able to just move on from bad experiences unscathed.
9 RecommendShareFlag
Edward Blau commented December 11, 2018
E
Edward Blau
WI
Dec. 11, 2018
For every complex problem there is a simple solution. And it is wrong.
Could it be the offspring of the women who survived the famine winter in the Netherlands were heavier simply because their mothers over fed them when more food was available?
The environment that trauma victims create for their offspring may be as important as epigenetic changes in their DNA.
Epigenetics may be real but it is still a very long way to go. I await findings in the chemical analysis of RNA or DNA that is seen only in trauma victims.
1 Reply9 RecommendShareFlag
Michael commented December 12, 2018
M
Michael
Los Angeles
Dec. 12, 2018
I've long believed something like this was possible, and now there is some evidence. Way cool. Keep the research going.
8 RecommendShareFlag
Hansa commented December 12, 2018
H
Hansa
Earth
Dec. 12, 2018
Emotional Detectives, like a woman I know, have found out for years now how transferred trauma from generations back are influencing the Now.
For me its a fact, because I was relieved from stress of WWII, but was born AFTER. My parents both carried those memories in their DNA/RNA.
Scientists might not find proof of it, like we can’t find the information of a book by analyzing the paper and ink!
2 Replies8 RecommendShareFlag
David Woodlock commented December 12, 2018
D
David Woodlock
NY
Dec. 12, 2018
Another interesting framework on this topic can be found in a book " Emotional Dimensions of Healthcare "
8 RecommendShareFlag
Woodley Lamousnery commented December 11, 2018
W
Woodley Lamousnery
Boston, MA
Dec. 11, 2018
This article is really interesting and I had to read it a couple of times before commenting. The study of epigentics and epigenome is still young and it is understandable that there are critics and skeptics, but I have a feeling this study holds promise. The growing field of epigentics is helping us understad that residules of past environmental trumas are a legacy of its own with the possibility of passing it on to future generations.
The experiments produced through animals models is a good start and the evidence has been convincing. Just recently, a study from The Ohio State University showed that pollution from the environment may have repurcussions for off-springs even before conception, increasing the risks of heart disease. Again, the study used mice models, but is convincing, nevertheless. I only hope that future experiments evolve to grow more in-depth in order to fully grasp the compacity in the power of epigentics.
Here is the article link:https://news.osu.edu/dirty-air-now-could-harm-hearts-of-offspring-later/
7 RecommendShareFlag
William Ross commented December 12, 2018
W
William Ross
Tennessee
Dec. 12, 2018
You’re conflating different ideas here. The Dutch study has to do with starvation, not psychological abuse. You need to grasp the subject matter before denouncing it.
7 RecommendShareFlag
Kathy Barker commented December 12, 2018
K
Kathy Barker
Seattle
Dec. 12, 2018
Not okay to traumatize mice.
So, it is interesting- but is ‘t knowing it enough to stop traumatizing people?
7 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 12, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
Times Pick
@Grittenhouse
Like you, I knew , and know Holocaust survivors, intimately, as my neighborhood was home to a number of Holocaust survivors. My neighbor's parents had adopted twins who had been subjects of Mengele's experiments.
Many of my friends were and are children of Holocaust survivors, as are my two brothers-in-law and and sister-in-law.
My school brought in speakers who went into great detail regarding the horrors to which they were subjected, and showed us their concentration camp tattoos. The school showed young children graphic concentration camp footage , which included of piles of emaciated corpses.
As a child, I had nightmares that I was in a concentration camp, and nightmares that I was being chased by the Germans, which was a direct result of the concentration camp footage and the firsthand stories of the speakers. I don't know what the school was thinking in terms of exposing small children to this.
My brothers-in-law, sister-in-law, and some of my best friends are the children of survivors.
Many people who were and are close to me were either Holocaust survivors or the children of survivors, so I understand how the trauma of your loves ones has affected you , as it it has affected me, as well.
9 Replies7 RecommendShareFlag
Lenny commented December 11, 2018
L
Lenny
Greater Boston
Dec. 11, 2018
Jeff,
Thank you for your progressive thought process. This is exactly the attitude that will propel science to a whole another level. The best we have is knowing something and that there is potential. A starting point, which will lead to more scientific inquiry and investigating by the brightest minds in the field, ultimately leading to possibly stronger evidence in the future.
6 RecommendShareFlag
RLiss commented December 11, 2018
R
RLiss
Fleming Island, Florida
Dec. 11, 2018
@Yellow Bird :
How exactly, I'm curious.
6 RecommendShareFlag
Paul Johnson commented December 12, 2018
P
Paul Johnson
USA / FR
Dec. 12, 2018
I have feeling that epigenetics does not merit the descriptor "a field of science". But I don't really know. I only have a bachelor's degree in genetics, from 40 years ago. My saying "it is not really a field of science" is not worth much, even though it might well be true. My saying it (no matter how much conviction I feel) is still a gamble. The scientific method seeks to reduce the gamble to a tiny fraction of probability. (am I right?)
Suppositions are the bases of questions, not answers, no matter how clever their phrasing.
6 RecommendShareFlag
Rosie red commented December 11, 2018
R
Rosie red
Maine
Dec. 11, 2018
If the cause of the observed effect on the next generation turns out not to be "nature," maybe it is "nurture."
5 RecommendShareFlag
Tyla commented December 11, 2018
T
Tyla
NC
Dec. 11, 2018
I feel that the idea of people having issues that are in their genes vs having a traumatized people raising children who then mimic behaviors they have learned from their parents to be not very plausible. In essence we would all have some sort of trauma-gene in us because no one has a trauma-free gene pool.
2 Replies5 RecommendShareFlag
John Meissner commented December 11, 2018
J
John Meissner
Canada
Dec. 11, 2018
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/prozac-passes-on-altered-behaviour-to-next-three-generations-in-fish-researchers-find
Three generations of timid, anxious, introverted fish after an initial exposure to prozac to great grand-mother zebra fish ! We haven't done the research on humans.
5 RecommendShareFlag
RLiss commented December 12, 2018
R
RLiss
Fleming Island, Florida
Dec. 12, 2018
@Dejah:
I highly doubt the scientists or the article's writers were trying to "harm" women in their studies.....
Or disrespect them, or whatever.
And actually what you describe (lots of anecdotes) is NOT how "data are formed".
5 RecommendShareFlag
Monica Friedlander commented December 12, 2018
M
Monica Friedlander
Livermore, CA
Dec. 12, 2018
I'm no scientist, so I can't venture an educated opinion. But I can't help wondering: if the epigenetic claims are true, wouldn't the same process of inheriting acquired traits have to happen for reasons OTHER than just trauma? A revolutionary discovery in the science of evolution surely must apply to more than one trait. Has anyone found any evidence of that? If not, I'm skeptical, but will keep an open mind.
5 RecommendShareFlag
Hansa commented December 12, 2018
H
Hansa
Earth
Dec. 12, 2018
I had gout and rheumatoid arthritis. After the clearance of the traumas they are both gone and even the charts from blood analysis are normal now. How we explain? By results is my favorite.
5 RecommendShareFlag
Dr. Alexander commented December 12, 2018
D
Dr. Alexander
Hamilton
Dec. 12, 2018
@4Average Joe it blows my mind how you and the author of this article can go on a great expedition around the world to cite examples of trauma without addressing the trauma born on black Americans right here at home due to slavery, Jim Crow and lynching. None of the events you or this author mention happened anywhere near the length of time of American slavery. But somehow, that escapes you psyche and conscious, which ultimately means you don't see it as a problem nor do you see such events has causing trauma to black Americans. What your statement says to me is that to you and this author, black Americans and their plight. God help us.
4 RecommendShareFlag
Arguendo commented December 11, 2018
A
Arguendo
Seattle
Dec. 11, 2018
It sounds like the problem is less with science, and more with how science is reported.
4 RecommendShareFlag
Arnaud Tarantola commented December 11, 2018
A
Arnaud Tarantola
Nouméa
Dec. 11, 2018
@L
Plausibility is one of the important Doll and Hill criteria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_Hill_criteria.
It's not about belief but about proof. The difference between belief and scientific knowledge is that the basic tenet of science is doubt, until proven true. With belief, the proposition is exactly the converse and anything goes.
You can't move forward unless there is a lot of doubt and disbelief, and proof slowly accumulates. There is tension between the two processes, but they blead to progress.
4 RecommendShareFlag
Seattle commented December 11, 2018
S
Seattle
Wa
Dec. 11, 2018
It's unclear why researchers are torturing mice to see if this theory is true. Knowing that it is true would not alleviate the horrors around the world. Therefore, it's an academic question.
1 Reply4 RecommendShareFlag
L commented December 12, 2018
L
L
Seattle
Dec. 12, 2018
@Arnaud Tarantola
Doubt is great. Wonderful even. It's right to ask for more evidence. What is irritating is when further research is opposed on the basis of no existing evidence.
Test the connection between smoking and cancer? Well we don't already have proof so...
GMOs? Afraid we have no plausible theory as to long term effects so we'll just have to let that go.
Concerned about rising c section rates? Well we don't have a good theory about positive effects of vaginal birth so let's table it for years.
And so on.
It is one thing to apply intelligent skepticism to a given claim, and another thing to use skepticism as an excuse to claim that the given claim is false because there is no evidence, or that there is no point in researching the claim.
4 RecommendShareFlag
patentcad commented December 12, 2018
P
patentcad
Chester, NY
Dec. 12, 2018
@Li Some of you completely miss the larger point of this discussion. The motivation and or good/evil of the adults who fight these wars are not very relevant to 11 year old girls caught up in any particular war time nightmare, and I can assure you that the flaming ruins of Berlin c. 1945 presented their own holocaust the people caught in them, particularly children, even if we spell it with smaller 'h'. The parallels/similarity of the suffering of innocent kids caught in death camps or under Allied bombs are obvious to anyone with a shred of humanity; don't let the desire to ascribe blame for war atrocities of the warring parties devalue the suffering of any civilian, particularly chidren caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.. Just like the kids at Auschwitz never deserved their fate/experience, neither did the little boys and girls in the ruins of burning German cities. Stating that is hardly 'blaming the Allies' nor is it a rationalization of the murderous policies of the Nazi regime. The suggestion that it is is both ignorant and highly insulting.
9 Replies4 RecommendShareFlag
Sequel commented December 11, 2018
S
Sequel
Boston
Dec. 11, 2018
"The mark doesn’t directly damage the gene; there’s no mutation. "
The mechanism of action seems pretty clear. It sounds equivalent to the "study" that found that obesity is contagious.
The problem lies in the dictionary, not in your genes.
3 RecommendShareFlag
PNicholson commented December 11, 2018
P
PNicholson
Pa Suburbs
Dec. 11, 2018
When I first heard about this phenomenon some years ago, I was skeptical, but *wanted* to believe. Believing - I felt, was part of acknowledging the original trauma, and its importance in history or to an individual personally, while not believing in this phenomenon felt/feels like a denial of the trauma.
Our hearts want to acknowledge/validate historical wrongs, but our heads should tell us that Lamarckian inheritance does not apply to intergenerational trauma.
Alternately, wouldn't we need to posit that the opposite necessarily apply: that life's winners's offspring biologically benefit? now doesn't that sound equally unfair [read: magical, implausible, incorrect?]
3 RecommendShareFlag
Open-minded Scientist. commented December 11, 2018
O
Open-minded Scientist.
Boston
Dec. 11, 2018
These are extremely challenging phenomena to study in humans (any volunteers for multigenerational breeding programs?). History shows that simpler systems can provide the experimental framework for understanding that can then be extended to humans. In this field even mice are complicated. Fruit flies were central to elaborating and understanding Mendel’s laws which were inferred from pea plant breeding experiments.
If the author is truly interested (curious) in whether there is any there there, then look at the hundreds of studies in the last two decades on heritable epigenetics - not anecdotes about humans, real experiments.
Note to some commenters: heritability implies sperm and egg cells. Some of the best (most compelling) studies in mice involve injecting the sperm nucleus into an egg and putting that embryo in a foster mom. When these pups inherit a behavior or change in gene expression from either parent, then either your brain shuts off or your brain wakes up. My brain has been racing for twenty one years.
3 RecommendShareFlag
Arnaud Tarantola commented December 11, 2018
A
Arnaud Tarantola
Nouméa
Dec. 11, 2018
@Keith Landherr
One problem is as follows: with many diseases, several modified genes (polymorphisms) have been identified as associated. With type 2 diabetes, for instance, we're talking over a hundred. But the sum of the effect of all of these genes taken together only explains 10% of the risk. That means genetic modification is indeed present in diabetics, but only a little more so than in non-diabetics.
Why? Because nature usually doesn't rely on a single linear system (A to B to C to D). The organisms relying on such systems died long ago. In more complex organisms there are often failsafe mechanisms based on redundant genese in which A1 and A2 and A3 located in different parts of the genome can lead to B1 and B2 and B3 to C1 etc.). Epigenetics based on gene expression rather than genes can help make sense of things, but are in infancy. Modifications observed and measured in mice are a good first step but far from satisfactory to explain disease in humans. We must advance that research, but with a lot of skepticism, and a pause if necessary.
5 Replies3 RecommendShareFlag
Grittenhouse commented December 11, 2018
G
Grittenhouse
Philadelphia
Dec. 11, 2018
@DJS I knew intimately three Holocaust survivors, and their traumas were well imprinted on my consciousness. When someone you love has been subjected to such horror, you are affected.
9 Replies3 RecommendShareFlag
Randy Burgess commented December 12, 2018
R
Randy Burgess
Woodstock, NY
Dec. 12, 2018
@Suzy Q Not what Carey's article is about. Maybe you should become a journalist and show how you can write to satisfy every single demanding reader on every single unrelated point - and do it all on deadline.
3 RecommendShareFlag
Paul Johnson commented December 12, 2018
P
Paul Johnson
USA / FR
Dec. 12, 2018
@Hansa Science does not conclude via supposition, no matter how strong. Period. When you have a sense that something is true, no matter how strong that sense, you have to be careful to understand that your conclusions are limited by your capacities. One person sees paper and ink, where another sees words with meaning.
It is right to state that one recognizes trauma transferred across generations. But the details of the mechanisms of that transfer cannot be known without understanding how those mechanisms work. Anything more is a supposition, and not yet truth.
I have feeling that epigenetics does not merit the descriptor "a field of science". But I don't really know. I only have a bachelor's degree in genetics, from 40 years ago. My saying it is not really a field of science is not worth much, even though it might well be true. My saying it (no matter how much conviction I feel) is still a gamble. The scientific method seeks to reduce the gamble to a tiny fraction of probability.
Suppositions are the bases of questions, not answers, no matter how clever their phrasing.
3 RecommendShareFlag
Paulie commented December 11, 2018
P
Paulie
Earth
Dec. 11, 2018
More likely that a person that has suffered trauma is physically weakened and being so weakened has a difficult pregnancy with the fetus not receiving adequate nourishment.
2 RecommendShareFlag
Arnaud Tarantola commented December 11, 2018
A
Arnaud Tarantola
Nouméa
Dec. 11, 2018
@cheryl
The difficulty is not so much about knowing whether or not research should roll on, but whether it should roll on despite the veidence not being there by being prioritized for funding at the the expense of other, also potentially interesting and useful research.
It's often not an easy choice.
2 RecommendShareFlag
Arnaud Tarantola commented December 11, 2018
A
Arnaud Tarantola
Nouméa
Dec. 11, 2018
@Betsy Todd
It's not true that the experiments are inapplicable to our species. Just because it's not sufficient doesn't mean it's not necessary. You can volunteer to test drugs that have not been tested in animals, if you like, but that's forbidden. Good thing too.
As a MD and researcher I guarantee you that researchers don't enjoy sacrificing animals. But they always keep in their sights the fact that it may save humans (or other animals) one day. It's their responsibility (and that of their overseeres) to limit that to the minimum.
As humans are complex and social animals (nature vs. nurture) with the unique capacity to envison their death, explaining trauma and its pathophysiological consequences is complex. Understanding the pathophysiological mechanism can help develop a test, a drug...
2 RecommendShareFlag
Larry Feig commented December 11, 2018
L
Larry Feig
Newton ma
Dec. 11, 2018
Nobody said this does not happen in women. As you state it’s easy to see why that could be true.
It’s more surprising it can happen through men and easier to study because the info is all in sperm.
2 RecommendShareFlag
Larry Feig commented December 11, 2018
L
Larry Feig
Newton ma
Dec. 11, 2018
Because these are epigenetic changes they are reversible! So people can overcome these “inherited “ traits
2 RecommendShareFlag
Sandra Shreve commented December 12, 2018
S
Sandra Shreve
Belmont
Dec. 12, 2018
@DJS
Excellent post. Thank you!
9 Replies2 RecommendShareFlag
Li commented December 12, 2018
L
Li
Ireland
Dec. 12, 2018
DJS’s argument is that these were not similar events in any way. He or she is correct.
9 Replies2 RecommendShareFlag
Larry Feig commented December 12, 2018
L
Larry Feig
Newton ma
Dec. 12, 2018
Don’t be unnerved. Because these are epigenetic, not genetic changes they can likely be reversed by ones environment!
2 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 12, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
@Margot lane
There is no cycle to break, when the trauma was was that the father was an abused Civil War P.O.W. , or when the trauma was child was exposed in the womb to the "Dutch Hunger Winter" , or the trauma was the Holocaust, which are all referenced in this article,
2 RecommendShareFlag
DJS commented December 12, 2018
D
DJS
New York
Dec. 12, 2018
@Dejah
The plural of anecdote is not data. No, data is not formed by gathering anecdotes. Wherever did you get that idea ?
This article addressed children of fathers who were abused Civil War P.O.Ws, children of the "Dutch Winter Hunger ", and children of Holocaust Survivors.
How did you translate the above into "Generational abuse "?? These children were not abused by their parents, and these were one time events.
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Matt Chase
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