2020/12/06

Quaker Theology Group Pst Zadock Vidolo 16 October Are all Quakers teaching same faith and practice CATECHISM CLASSES Worldwide ?

Quaker Theology Group


Pst Zadock Vidolo
Member of Quaker Theology Group since 11 September 2017
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Are all Quakers teaching same faith and practice CATECHISM CLASSES Worldwide ?
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  • Mackenzie Morgan No, definitely not. There were some schisms over doctrine in the 19th century, and different missionaries taught different things.
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  • Jim Fussell “Christ was come to teach his people Himself, by His power and Spirit in their hearts, and to bring people off from all the world's ways and teachers, to His own free teaching, who had bought them, and was the Savior of all them that believed in Him.”

    https://www.indyfriends.org/.../2-19-17-christ-has-come...
    2-19-17 Christ Has Come to Teach his People Himself — Indianapolis First Friends
    INDYFRIENDS.ORG
    2-19-17 Christ Has Come to Teach his People Himself — Indianapolis First…
    2-19-17 Christ Has Come to Teach his People Himself — Indianapolis First Friends
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  • Jim Fussell “As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit — just as it has taught you, remain in him.” (1 John 2:27)
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  • Wallace Isoka Am proud to be a Quaker
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  • Carrie Ann Calay The larger bodies, like pacific yearly meeting, New England meeting, etc. Each have developed their own guides called Faith and Practice, but not mandatory dogmas. Plus the writings quoted above.
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Carrie Ann Calay Don't you think this has lead to all manner of divisions among Quakers?
      I wish we had a uniform teachings
    • Carrie Ann Calay Pst Zadock Vidolo no . One of the most important things for Friends is the relationship one has with the still, small voice within. That said there are commonly held beliefs.... "Walk cheerfully over the earth seeking that of God in everyone" probably Christ's sermon on the mount would do.
      2
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Carrie Ann Calay I feel we need a Quaker identify
    • Carrie Ann Calay Pst Zadock Vidolo we have always had a very strong identity!!! . The above comment is a big part! Another important very very well known testimony is our peace testimony! We have often been called to witness for our beliefs and even be jailed for them! We are inclusive and respectful of others and their faiths. Not to impose our way on others by recruitment or agressive conversion tactics. Meetings govern themselves by consensus. We don't have priests bishops or popes to mandate beliefs. Many m3etings are silent allowing for ministry of the Spirit or for messages from the Spirit to be shared! We allow people to see our good works and joy and that is w partly what calls others to investigate the Friends! Try ordering some of the pamphlets from Pendle Hill. They can inform you of the VERY recognized ways of Friends. Friends think deeply on their faith and write and journal, and these are treasured by other Friends. Some Friends rely more heavily on the Bible Christ as the basis of their faith. Yes there have been seriously separations, but always grieved, and I'm sure with the hope of future reconciliation. But a creed you recite, or catechism or water baptism ceremonies, no. I think that would be some other denomination, perhaps one of the Anabaptists or the Mennonites 🌷
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Carrie Ann Calay I have loved your views
      However I believe we must evangelize bring more to believe in Christ Jesus our saviour and join Quakers. This will grow the church
    • Carrie Ann Calay Pst Zadock Vidolo well perhaps those are diversities that we both will accept. I am living in USA, perhaps you are in a different country?
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Carrie Ann Calay the Bible work every where .you are a friend of Jesus Christ if you obey his commandments
    Write a reply…

  • Stefanie Shryock Absolutely not
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  • Kathleen Lake Oh heck no lol herding Quakers is like herding cats... God likes it that way.
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  • Keith Braithwaite Are any Quakers teaching catechism classes at all? If so, where did such a catechism come from?
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    • Rich Accetta-Evans Keith Braithwaite I don't know of any modern Quaker "catechisms" at least by that name, but early Quaker Robert Barclay did write a catechism. The same Robert Barclay who also wrote The Apology.
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    • Chris Wynn Keith Braithwaite there actually was a Quaker catechism many years ago and I believe it was written by Robert Barclay.
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    • Jerry Aurand While Barclay calls it a catechism, it wasn’t so much for use in instructing young Friends (children, 7-12) or for those newly come to the Society, but for the thoughtful, prayerful consideration of any who reads it.

      The RSoF has never had much interest in or expression of an academic dogma, but his works are the closest we have.      …See more
      Robert Barclay - Wikipedia
      EN.M.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
      Robert Barclay - Wikipedia
      Robert Barclay - Wikipedia
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    • Gilbert Afwayi Keith Braithwaite pastor , that style is only in Kenya 🇰🇪, l have been in several churches /meetings in USA 🇺🇸, nothing like that features and plus we don’t have such Massive friends becoming members of Quaker Faith every year like in Kenya , Kenya would register over 3000 or More new Members yearly from several yearly meetings but US the numbers are stagnant!!!
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Jerry Aurand thank you for a well researched contributions
    • Gilbert Afwayi However this catechism classes as known by Quakers , are referred to by other denominations as New believers/ converts classes - very important to the church , this is where we teach the new members Quaker values , faith and practice not only biblical knowledge but other valuable literature pertaining to life and God !!!
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    • Larry Kuenning Here's the text of Barclay's _Catechism and Confession of Faith_:
      http://www.qhpress.org/texts/barclay/catechism/index.html
      QHPRESS.ORG
      Barclay's Catechism
      Barclay's Catechism
    Write a reply…

  • Kevin Bales Since we have no dogma, there is hardly a catechism thta one needs to recite.
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    • Chris Wynn Kevin Bales because of the divide between Christian Quakers and Friends General Conference Quakers which encompasses some Christian and a number of other approaches to religion there really is no "we."
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Kevin Bales i don’t think catechisms are generally recited in any tradition. They’re book-length. You can look up the official answer to questions you have in them. They’re what you’d base a curriculum on when writing a curriculum. (And 17th century Quakers did have a catechism.)

      Creeds are what you recite.
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  • Victor Bergström Life is a unique experience for all of us and so is our relationship with God. But I believe that we in the end follow the same path.
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  • Susan Long Catechism?!
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  • Jerry Aurand From Wikipedia;

    The contents of each book of discipline is agreed on by seeking unity among members of the authoring yearly meeting. Instead of voting or seeking an earthly consensus, the Meeting attempts to gain a sense of God's will for the communit    …See more
    3
  • Justin Gaynor If there's division between parties, step above the parties to re-find unity
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  • Kevin Mortimer Barclay College is developing a Quaker rule in the like order of the Franciscans. We argue that the Barclay discovered the Christian divinity of the Christian East centered in Theosis. Protestant practice and ways of ‘believing’ produce division more than unity.
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  • Rob Kinnon-Brettle I do not think we teach catechism at all - other than to refer people to "Quaker Faith and Practice", which is full of wisdom. It is not our business to tell people what to believe, but to encourage them to find the spiritual truth for their particular spiritual journey.
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  • Katie Green That's an odd question.
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  • Bertrand Rossert You certainly get the impression that there is a radical left political catechism but we are not all like that. 😊
  • Libby Leidolf We don’t do catechism classes
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  • Shawn Lazar Robert Barclay (1648-1690), Quakerism's first "theologian"—i.e., the first one to write a systematic presentation and defense of Quakerism—also wrote a catechism:

    http://www.qhpress.org/texts/barclay/catechism/
    QHPRESS.ORG
    Barclay's Catechism
    Barclay's Catechism
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  • JoLee Sasakamoose Depends on your branch I’m Hicksite Quaker we don’t do that
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    • Rich Accetta-Evans JoLee Sasakamoose Hicks himself had pretty definite beliefs though he didn't formulate them as a catechism. He would probably strike today's "Hicksites" as pretty conservative. He was also a recorded minister although many (not all) of today's "Hicksites" reject the concept of recorded ministers.
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Rich Accetta-Evans being more in line with Hicks doctrinally is why I hang out with Wilburites when the option arises.
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  • Luap Iyasi What I would say about this is that Quakers all over the world are not the same. Conservative Quakerism in Kenya has new member Quaker Faith and Practice teaching for those born in the church and those who want to become. The Faith and Practice classes are divided into two levels, Associate member(Class/level 1)and Full Member (level 2) The source of this teachings is the Bible and Quaker Testimonies. We are proud if our History and we teach this too. I am a member of Stony Run Monthly Meeting of Baltimore and I know we have new member classes. What makes Quakers who they are is their identity and emphasis on listening to the Holy Spirit of God. We recognize that of God in every man(generic). I would however point out here that many who were born to Quaker parents in Kenya esoecially, do not understand what True Quakerism is. They went to schools and joined Christians unions, attended interdenominational meetings and copied worshipping styles from protestant and Pentecostal churches and have come back to demand that the same worship be practiced in the Friends meetings.
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    • Rich Accetta-Evans Luap Iyasi I don't disagree with you, except that I would not call Evangelical Quakers "conservative" in Kenya or elsewhere. In a Quaker context "Conservative" means unprogrammed, Spirit-led worship and Christ-centered theology. As in Ohio Yearly Meeting(Conservative). Not the same thing as programmed meetings with pastors)
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Rich Accetta-Evans Kenyan Friends are FUM, not EFC.
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    • Rich Accetta-Evans Mackenzie Morgan You are correct. Some I follow on fb sound "evangelical" to me but I was wrong to use the E word with a capital E.
    • Luap Iyasi Rich Accetta-Evans I used the term Conservative in the Kenyan Context as Quakerism was preached in Kenya by the first missionaries, Willis Hotchkiss and others. We do have silent worshippers too in Nairobi. Evangelical Friends are in Rwanda, Burundi and some parts of Congo DRC.
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    Write a reply…

  • Eden Grace Catechism is the word used for membership class in the Kenyan Friends context. Nothing scary, Friends!!
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    • Eden Grace And to all the liberal Friends saying that we don't teach anybody anything -- I ask you to examine your actual practice to see whether that statement is true.
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Eden Grace how about “we’re so bad at teaching anything that it’s like playing Mau”?

      *break social rule you were never told*
      “That’s unQuakerly.”
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  • Ed Balogh The only idea we may all agree on is that we have great differences in all points of theology. I do believe that the many and varied queries have value.
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  • Christy Randazzo i've been working on a Quaker systematic theology for a few years now. i have to admit, i feel like it's much more likely to get a fair and generous reading amongst ANYONE else, than it's likely to receive amongst Quakers. *shrug*
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  • Nelson Kidiga Pst How do quaker practice equality across the world. (Nelson Kidiga).
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  • Rich Accetta-Evans While we are on the subject of Barclay's writings, I wonder whether any of you have heard of a document called something like "A Briefer Barclay" that I think was written by William Bacon Evans (not related to me)? I dimly recall running across this ma…See more
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  • Pst Zadock Vidolo How are you practicing Quakerism?
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  • LJ Hunt Thank you, this really made me chuckle!
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  • Teri Bookless Absolutely no. There are several branches of the Quaker Tree, just like most denominations. Each has its own interpretations and emphasis. There's one small branch in the U.S. that is considered closest to the orginal Friends. One Meeting is in Barnesville, Ohio.
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    • Pawel Broom I dont acceppt the Branches /diversity model to explain friends because Quakerism ended with Fox
  • Teri Bookless In Kenya, most Friends are God loving with several small hospital ministries. They are evangelical but not like the current values of evangelicals in the US. They are leading their churches and work without interference from the west.
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    • Luap Iyasi Teri Bookless About being God loving yes, Evangelical... I doubt. I am a Kenyan Quaker and I am not Evangelical. We have Evangelical Friends Church in Athi River and I hear some parts of Nairobi. That is the far it goes.
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Luap Iyasi am I correct in understanding that water baptism continues to be a major point of division for FUM vs EFC?
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  • Teri Bookless In the UK there are basically two groups. One that I have friends among. I prefer Friends that are close to the original Quakers who I will call Christian Friends or Christian Quaker and they are not to be thought of like the Friends Church in the states. The UK are still unprogrammed and have wonderful worship but they do have what I prefer in their beliefs.
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  • Teri Bookless Here is the name of someone in the UK that you might want to befriend. His name is Stuart Masters
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    • Pawel Broom He dismisses Christopher Hill as "dated "
    • Mackenzie Morgan Pawel Broom his book *is* from 1972. The state of Quaker scholarship has advanced greatly in the last 50 years, thanks to Pink Dandelion, Thom Hamm, Stephen Angell, etc. Have you read other books that focus more directly on Quaker history?
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  • Joseph Massa I think catechisms, as used for example by Catholics and Lutherans are presentations of dogma. What attracts people to Quakerism is our lack of dogma.
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  • Chuck Fager To return to the question in the OP: the answer is No, and No: Quakers do not use the “same catechism” for inquirers/applicants around the world. Further, many Quaker groups don’t use anything like a “catechism” at all.
    These answers reflect the charac    ter of Quaker groups: yearly meetings (YMs) are autonomous, and efforts within associations of YMs to enforce uniform religious instruction have been spotty and disparate.
    Moreover, there are branches which, for different reasons, are skeptical of such formal course-like approaches.
    I wonder if other readers think that uniformity of such teaching among Quaker groups is either practical or desirable. Personally, I’m dubious.
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    • Christy Randazzo i kinda think that many folks have already given those answers re: catechisms, authority, doctrine, pedagogy AND the value of doctrinal uniformity. like, you don't need to wonder: just read the threads, friend. i'd recommend giving them a full read first, perhaps.
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo At least we should have a document or a sylubus
  • Themistoklis Papaioannou A quick reply would be that once upon a time the answer would be yes but today the answer is definitely no. It has to do mainly with which Quaker tradition you visit. Saying this there are some things that unite all Quakers for example the belief in the Light of Christ within.
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    Write a reply…

  • Jean Meyer Capps What? Catechism is a Catholic term. Does not apply to Quakers.
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  • Bridget Rorem No. No. No creed, no catechism. How does God speak to you? Is it consistent with love and mercy?
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  • Chuck Fager Some liberal Quakers seem to believe Friends are “beyond” theology; while I’m basically a liberal in outlook, I find this to be an illusion. Christian-based (or adjacent) Theology in American culture today is very much a focus of conflicts on many leve…See more
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  • Paul Schiff DOUBTFUL!*!
  • Kristin Kight Quaker catechism? Military intelligence, athletic scholarship, jumbo shrimp!
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  • Chuck Fager Some liberal Quakers seem to believe Friends are “beyond” theology; while I’m basically a liberal in outlook, I find this to be an illusion. Christian-based (or adjacent) Theology in American culture today is very much a focus of conflicts on many leve…See more
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  • Arthur Pearsall Catechism classes? That seems very un-Quakerly to me.
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  • Arthur Pearsall On the other hand, if it is used to explain the rigid and authoritarian basis for so much theological posturing of the hireling cleric dominated mainstream churches, it is Quakerly to learn to understand them if you have the time.
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  • Jim Fussell Is ‘Quakerism 101’ actually an unprogrammed ‘catechism’ class?

    Is there anyone here who attended or facilitated a ‘Quakerism 101’ session or series of sessions for newcomers at their Monthly Meeting?
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Jim Fussell Friends Church Quakers in Kenya practice catechism classes
      Class 1 to become associate members
      Class 2 to become full members
    • Rich Accetta-Evans Jim Fussell I have attended several Quakerisn 101 classes at 15th Street Meeting and also facilitated a somewhat similar course of my own design that I called "Exploring Quakerism". Quakerism 101 uses an outline, suggested readings and suggested exercises provided by FGC if I recall correctly. My version overlapped but with different readings and more of an attempt to compare early Quaker theology with that of other Christian churches and movements. I did this course several times. It was a six week course with one session a week: usually a two or three hour session. Typically I would do the first session (about the vision of early Friends) and sometimes another session about the controversies and separations of the 19th century. But I would also invite others from the Meeting for some sessions to talk about things like our own Meeting's committees, the nature of Business Meeting, the meaning of membership, etc.

      The intent was not to give the "right answers" about what one has to believe to be a Friend, but to widen and deepen the perspective.
      Some participants were already members, some went on to become members, and some never did.
      I no longer have the energy to give such a class (at least while I also have a day job), but I know another Friend is planning to revive the Quakerism 101 version using FGC materials in the near (post-Covid) future.
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  • Margaret Keya Yes. Am from Kenya and its there.
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  • Carl Williams the same faith or the same words?
  • Wim Nusselder Dear Zadock,
    The answers to your questions (reading the responses and knowing from own reading & experience, including a visit to Nairobi in 2008) are obviously 2x no.
    IF you understand 'faith' to mean 'something that can be taught' (as you seem to do) Quakers do not pass o    n the same teachings worldwide (and do not even all feel Called to 'pass on teachings').
    IF you understand 'catechism classes' to mean something recognisably similar as the catechism classes that I attended in the Reformed Churches in the Netherlands in which I grew up, no they don't practice that consistently.
    Partly for practical reasons (small groups, few new entries); partly because of (traditionally!) eschewing 'catechism' and favouring "Advices and Queries" instead.
    Your implicit question seems to be: 'Shouldn't we...?'
    Understood as a rethorical questions, you apparently think we should.

    Could it be that Quakers in different locations & contexts are Called to different practices?
    This is a perspective from my context: http://wim.nusselder.antenna.nl/.../secularization%20for...
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Quakers have started practicing a different Quakerism that is not Biblical as it was from Quaker founders. These are my concerns
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    • Luap Iyasi Wim Nusselder You misunderstood Pastor Vidolo's question and I think your take on what the "FAITH" we are talking about is , is misplaced. When we talk about teaching faith, we mean Faith and practice as in beliefs, practices, shared experiences, testimonies, philosophies and traditions. We are not talking about FAITH as in Hebrews 11:1-5.
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  • Gary Miller We dont have catechism classes. Not all Quakers are alike therefore we dont teach the same faith.
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    • Shamir Isaac Gary Miller No...... we do have Quaker theology colleges, what exactly do you think they teach there. So I confidently say that we have catechism classes.
    • Mackenzie Morgan Shamir Isaac but what is taught in Friends Theological College is not the same as what is taught at Earlham School of Religion, so what’s taught isn’t the same worldwide.
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  • Jim Fussell Friend Zadock,
    I think part of the issue in US and UK unprogrammed Quaker meetings is these Meetings often have many people in their communities who have lived through bad and even abusive experiences in other Christian churches before finding refuge    …See more
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    • Luap Iyasi Jim Fussell I can hear you loud and clear. I have made the sane observation and my prayer is that the Lord God who awakens the dead shall indeed arise and awaken our sleeping meetings to offer the true refuge that the apostle Paul preached. The Gospel of grace that made the first Quakers make an impact in the American continent. The impact of Quakerism that earned us a place in the UN and accepted our young people to serve in the army as nurses instead of holding guns to kills. An impact that made towns and roads to be named Quaker Town , Quaker road, and impact that saw Quakers like John Hopkins start big hospitals and Universities. Where is that Spirit? The answer is within us. We need to go back and pick up the pieces of our authentic selfves and start where we left not copying water baptisms, crusades and empty rituals that have spiritual value.
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    • Pawel Broom I dont agree with your perspective Jim Fussell contemporaily ,historically and objectively Theologically. Quakers come from a rejection of the state church and all its trappings .
  • Kate Anthony No Quakers are teaching catechism classes. Not a Quaker thing to do. Faith and Practice does have some queries, but they have no right answers, they are just challenges to examine your conscience about how you and your Meeting are doing at living up to our values.
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  • QHPRESS.ORG
    Barclay's Catechism
    Barclay's Catechism
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  • Ingosi Mbaisi Majority of the Kenyan Quakers are lost in Protestants mainly due to lack of quaker core values in preparation (training), of members for admission and this is further eroded by admitting very young persons who are not mature enough to make independent decision . I'm sure Introduction of catechism came as a grave mistake and can't stand the universal Quaker standards.. Kenyan Quakers need to critically and openly re examine ourselves as to our faith and practice
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    • Jim Fussell Ingosi Mbaisi Thank you Ingosi.
      How young in age are members admitted?
      I don’t think in my yearly meeting there is a minimum age for membership, but a spiritual maturity would be expected.       …See more
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Jim Fussell at Adelphi there was some controversy when a family requested membership and the committee wanted to recommend full membership (not associate membership) for the 17 year old daughter. We weren’t sure if we could accept full members under 18, and that question was never answered because we were informed she’d just had a birthday and turned 18 a few days before business meeting.
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    • Jim Fussell Mackenzie Morgan I’ve met people who became full members as teens under 18, independent of their non-Quaker families. There was a clearness process and after a few months when the clearness committee found them spiritually mature and ready, that co…See more
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Jim Fussell perhaps clarification of this matter in the F&P revisions would be good to have.
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    • Jim Fussell Mackenzie Morgan yes.
      I’m recalling I was on a membership clearness committee at Langley Hill Meeting a couple decades ago for a young woman who wanted join in her senior year of high school. She was the daughter of members.
      Her age was not an issue, only her clarity and readiness. She wanted to be a full member before going away to college.
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Jim Fussell I am glad to learn that at Langley Hill meeting they have MEMBERSHIP CLEARNESS COMMITTEE
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Jim Fussell I support that. If someone has a calling let the person serve according to the grace given by the Holy Ghost
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Mackenzie Morgan I think that is why we should have some process of making such decisions eg classes then vetting or interviews
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Ingosi Mbaisi that is half truths
      Right now Kenya Quakers are leading worldwide both numerical and spiritually.
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    • Pawel Broom Pst Zadock Vidolo its not a sports game with people keeping score we are talking about peoples faiths
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    • Pawel Broom Pst Zadock Vidolo let the person decide what they believe with out others influencing them
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    • Ingosi Mbaisi Pst Zadock Vidolo l have been active for a long time,l am really sorry about said numerical strength and our quakerism quality as it reflect in our public life both as individuals and institutions...if we are doing well how come,in the regions with high Quaker population have poorly economy, that generate high unemployment and that force our young people to migrate to other parts of the country? This has something do with way we prepare and admit members
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Ingosi Mbaisi you are right.
      Quakers need a new wave of Revival.
      Quakers need to repent       …See more
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Pawel Broom Quaker values can manifest faith and practice if you inner light Holy Ghost.
      Quakers need the word of God
      Quakers need Holy Ghost
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Pawel Broom they Bible says we go evangelise
      The entrance of the word bring light
      We preach to them first so that they can make personal decision
    • Pawel Broom Pst Zadock Vidolo we dont agree on what is the bible , IMO Quakers come from a different tradition a non-mechanical preacher,non materialistic(physical Bible written 2k years ago) in theological terms; and not to be confused with the Catholic Workers use of the theological term, christian anarchism is the theological term that I think is used to discribe what Quakers and others use as a theological term . This is where you and I disagree.
    • Mackenzie Morgan Pst Zadock Vidolo we have clearness committees. The clearness committee thought she should be accepted as a full member. The meeting wasn’t sure we were allowed to do that according F&P, since we have a form of membership specifically for children which is not lifelong. (So if someone joined with their parents at age 6, they still need to make an adult decision.)

      We don’t do membership classes, though. I think we should. It’d be good to have everyone one the same page. I don’t like how we leave people guessing about expectations of behavior and process.
      1
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Pawel Broom my friend , it is when the Holy Ghost reveals the scriptures that makes the Bible unique. Otherwise if you read the Bible like any story book it won't have impacted on you. We need a revelation to understand this Spiritual things and our lives will never be the same
    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Mackenzie Morgan what you are doing is good. The reason why we are on this wall is so that we can share ideas. exchange views. We correct where correction is needed and we teach each other. God bless you
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  • Bill Samuel Not at all. In the USA, what is taught varies all over the place.
  • Shamir Isaac Friends Church Quakers Nairobi Yearly Meeting.

    Just to answer, Quacker have theology colleges in every country they've stepped. I confidently say they do teach same faith and practice catechism classes all over.

    Thank you Pastor Zadock.
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  • Pawel Broom No ill will intended , but I think the pastor bible /Christ centric side of Quakers should do the right thing and disassociate in name and identity from the Society of Friends .
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    • Jim Fussell Pawel Broom These Friends you describe are in the majority.
      Additionally the lines you describe are not clear cut, many or even most Friends belong to both ‘sides.’
      Do you really want to be a fragment of a broken whole?
      Is that what our world needs from us right now?
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    • Eden Grace Pawel Broom I'm not going to take the bait you offer, and descend into an argument. Let me just implore you to investigate all the branches of Friends before deciding which have drifted furthest from the essence of true Quakerism.
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  • Luap Iyasi IngosiMbaisi it is true the Quakers in Kenya lost it sometimes in the mid 90's when Friends theological College was ignored and the pastors who graduated from this institution were not well equipped in the Quaker Faith and Practice. When they went to o…See more
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    • Mackenzie Morgan Luap Iyasi ah, so the same thing happened there as happened here! In the US, it’s the Baptist colleges.
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    • Luap Iyasi Mackenzie Morgan that is right. When I read the Bible and when I go through the Quaker faith and Practice ( the one whose link you send me) I see pure Quaker theology. Some people from Kenya who preach and speak in our conferences are not Quakers. Ask any of them why Quakers ascribe to peace, coexistence, love, and being committed to Truth, and you will hear wonders
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  • Mutoro Nambuye Jane From the discussions above, your question pst Pst Zadock Vidolo has been answered, Quakers are very diverse, the understanding of catechism classes depends on which Quaker tradition you ascribe to, and the exposure you have about the wolrd family of Friends. Personally I don't think we have pure Quakerism, and if we try to look for one, we shall be disappointed. Someone said that Quakers can lead you into many theories 😊 but for I appreciate to be a 21st century Quaker woman and minister
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  • Joseph Pfeiffer An interesting question. Friends have tended to express corporate convictions in the Discipline books (Faith and Practice) of respective Yearly Meetings. It would be interesting to see what kind of broad consensus there is across F&P of YM's around the world. There would be a lot of disagreement, but I imagine some real points of convergence that could articulate our commonalities. So if there is a common catechism, it is not a formal document, but the consensus of many... Which to me seems rather in alignment with Friends tradition itself.
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    • Pawel Broom Joseph Pfeiffer don't agree with the consensus idea to determine where Quakers are
    • Karen Tibbals Joseph Pfeiffer There is a major difference between the Yearly Meetings that came out of the Orthodox Quaker group and the ones that came out of the Hicksite group. The Orthodox descendants all have a version of the Richmond Declaration, and the Hicksites don't. These all changed early in the 20th century. I know this because I was trying to trace what happened to the advices on trade and debt, and much of that disappeared at that time, replaced by the Richmond Declaration in the Orthodox YM.
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  • Joseph Pfeiffer Evangelical Friends like Jacci Stuckey and Kent Walkemeyer teach their own versions of "Quakerism 101" certainly from an evangelical perspective, but also accounting for the diversity of Friends history and beliefs.
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    • Pst Zadock Vidolo Joseph Pfeiffer this sounds better. What are other topics taught in Quakerism 101?
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    • Luap Iyasi Pst Zadock Vidolo if you want to be home with a more clearer perspective of Quakerism as we practice it in Kenya , i.e your Dad , Samson Atsiaya, and a few guys I know, please get the Indiana Yearly Meeting Faith and Practice 2018. Mackenzie Morgan shared it up there. I have looked at a few pages of relevance and I have seen what I was taught by my Mother, Pastor Benjamin Tsimungu, David Muhadi and others.
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  • Nelson Kidiga Pst I think we are living in the different times although Bible do not change but application changes from culture to church. We should appreciate we are living in the modern world. We come upto new approach to make church great again by going to original while appreciate the new ideas but biblical.
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    • Luap Iyasi Nelson Kidiga Pst I really hate some political nuances smuggled into a spiritual talk. What do you mean "make church great again?" Is there a time the Church of Christ wasn't Great? Yes the Bible doesn't change. Saying that the application of the bible changes is a fallacy and from the gates of deception. God's dealing with man and His creation is what changes according to God's own terms. Saying that the application of the bible changes opens up a flood gate of heresies from all angles . The Quakers believe wholeheartedly that speaking the truth and being honest in your business dealings is a biblical teaching and anything different is from the devil. For example Matthew 5:34-37 Teaches that we should not Swear at all read it. The application of that verse has never changed and will never change.

      34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

      35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

      36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

      37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil that the
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  • Shamir Isaac Wonderful discussion 🙏🙏
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