GESHE MICHAEL ROACH – THE SAD CASE OF A GIFTED MAN
Sorry, but I don’t want to add more on this topic. There has been said enough already. I just want to make you aware of two recent articles about Michael Roach, one in Rolling Stone and one by Scott Carney (in Playboy). You find more material and links at the end of the article by Scott Carney.Sex and Death on the Road to Nirvana – RollingStone
Death and Madness at Diamond Mountain – Scott Carney
When I read the Interview with Geshe Michael Roach & Christie McNally (PDF) in 2003 and especially the passage where Roach tries to defend himself, skillfully avoiding to answer the question what his teacher, Khen Rinpoche Geshe Lobsang Tharchin, says about his (strange) behavior, I realized that Michael Roach has created an own inner world where voices can only reach him if they suit his own views. Since there are still some people who think it might be worth to follow Mr. Roach or that he might be a genuine Buddhist teacher, I added the article by Scott Carney to my website. Food for Thought! I am grateful that Alexander Berzin warned me personally to be careful with Roach – though at that time, I was not pleased to hear it because I placed my spiritual hopes already in Michael Roach …
During a tantric teaching the teacher of Roach, Khen Rinpoche, was asked about Roach, and he clearly distanced himself from Roach. Sadly, so far I was not able to get the recording but it exists. That this explicitly alienation by Roach’s teacher exists was told to me by a person I trust who listened to these teachings by Khen Rinpoche.
Last and least, Robert Thurman about Roach in the RollingStone interview:
Robert Thurman, a Columbia University religion professor and a leading expert on Eastern religions, calls Roach’s version of Tibetan Buddhism “an American pop-religion knockoff.” …
The office of the Dalai Lama issued a rebuke, and Roach’s associates urged him to remove his robes to indicate that he was not celibate. When he refused, Robert Thurman, a former ordained monk, tried to reason with him. “I asked him to meet,” says Thurman, who is married and long ago resigned his robes. “He finally came with his consort to Columbia. I told him to go back to being a lay minister, to take off the robes. Bottom line is, he said he wouldn’t give up the robes. He said, ‘I have never consorted with a human female,’ and I said to Christie, ‘Are you human?’ And she didn’t say yes or no. She said, ‘He said it, I didn’t.'”
Thurman felt McNally was young and naive and being manipulated by Roach, but McNally felt empowered. According to her, the retreat had altered their dynamic. She had gone into it as Roach’s lesser, emerging as his equal. “The roles in the play now had changed from teacher and student to ‘partners,'” she says, and goes on to say that since Roach was interested in embracing his feminine side, “normal sexual relations between two married partners were absent from this relationship.”
Instead of waiting for new acolytes to come to them, Roach and McNally began holding classes at popular New York yoga studios like Jivamukti, whose clientele included Wall Street bankers, fashionistas like Donna Karan and celebrities such as Sting, Russell Simmons and Madonna. He had translated the Yoga Sutra from Sanskrit and spoke of how yoga could lead to enlightenment. “His teaching was the missing link in the writings on the Yoga Sutra,” says Morris. “Nobody had accomplished what was described in there, and here was somebody who had. I was moved. He was a good, holy, honest man then.”
UPDATEAn upcoming book by Scott Carney: A Death on Diamond Mountain: A True Story of Obsession, Madness, and the Path to Enlightenment – March 17, 2015
UPDATE SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER 2016Why I Joined—And Left—A Yoga Cult – Kristin Diversi (Alternet)
Jivamukti and Geshe Michael Roach: The Cross-Marketing Tangle of Magic Teachers by Matthew Remski (2016)
UPDATE FEBRUARY 2019The “Love Guru” I Wouldn’t Listen To – Tricycle
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26Comments ADD YOURS1
Jacki on March 16, 2014 at 11:10 pm
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Roach is a boogie yogi!2
tenpel on March 17, 2014 at 12:08 am
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What is a boogie yogi?
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Anne Wilson on September 27, 2014 at 10:04 pm
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I first heard Geshe Michael Roach speak in Galway in 1999 and was very deeply moved by him considering him to be the holiest man I had ever been in the presence of. Next time I heard him was in 2011 and while I noticed some of the joy or shine had left him I remained deeply moved. He imparted to me the idea that everything around me comes from me and based on that I can surmise from events which I have happened that I need to take great care in how I behave within my own relationships and how I treat everyone around me.
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Sarah on February 16, 2015 at 4:47 am
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He sounds like nothing but a scammer and a fraud. How sad for people who follow him. Sometimes people are so desperate that they will latch on to any charismatic scammer to relieve the pain of life. They did that in Jonestown.
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bruce cohen on March 23, 2015 at 1:09 am
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Weak people are easily scammed and misled. I know him from the jewelry industry- always a weird dude.
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alexis b on May 30, 2015 at 6:28 pm
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is he a buddhist monk? i heard that he break a vow7
tenpel on May 31, 2015 at 8:57 am
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Difficult to judge. It depends upon if he did a Parajika or not:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/sv/bhikkhu-pati.html#pr
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The Nameless on May 31, 2015 at 12:18 pm
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If the activities he engaged in included either oral or anal sex then he had committed a ‘Parajika’, an offence entailing immediate and automatic return to lay status. If he engaged solely in solitary or mutual masturbation, this would be classed as a ‘Sanghadisesa’, an offence which involves immediate suspension, and one which can only be purged by the consent of a committee of twenty ‘pure’ monks. The suspension for such an offence lasts for as long as such an offence has been concealed. Roach may have received the consent of such a committee during his period in India, if he were able to locate such a gathering. However, it is certain that he could not have made such a confession in the post India period because such a large number of Tibetan Sangha, the tradition into which he initially ordained and who have since denounced his actions, were not present to gather for such a purpose
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myriam on August 20, 2015 at 9:58 am
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Hi! I read the Diamond Cutter a year ago. In a week he is in my town and thought, how lucky I am, because he is not comming so oft in Europe and I made plans to go 3 days Seminar retreat … but a friend call me and asked to be carefull about, because can be a scamme, brain wash, etc.. It is someone who has been to his speaches? Please give some info about? it is worthy to go?10
tenpel on August 23, 2015 at 2:24 pm
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Hi Myriam, I attended a public talk with him and ChristyMcNally some years ago in Berlin. I am a Buddhist monk and was quite amazed to see and to hear how he twisted Buddhist teachings as means to fulfill mundane desires for money and to attract wonderful partners (“your dream partner”! as he had found in Christy – this he said himself). It felt like he is turning Buddhism into the wish fulfilling jewel that’s purpose is to fulfill samsaric desires. After the talk my lay friends where very excited. Chatting about ideas how to use what Roach said to fulfill their samsaric wishes. Their minds were full of graving and ideas formed how to fulfill those gravings. I didn’t say anything just relaxed and listened. When they finally turned to me with their excitement and urged me to say something I replied: “how did you feel before you came here and how are you feeling now? Isn’t your mind more agitated and filled with attachment than before? Do you think to increase desire is Buddhism?” This made them silent and settled the excitement.
Then someone else had the idea I should see and talk with Roach. I had no interest at all. It was clear for me that he twists Buddhist teachings – among others he claimed those in the tantric monastic (Gelug) colleges would have all sexual partners if they are “advanced” enough. Which is nonsense because Tsongkhapa is seen as the role model and he didn’t have any. When I got up from my seat a lady checked me quite inappropriately with a view “is he advanced enough?” I felt really ashamed/embarrassed with her checking gaze on me.
I concluded from all of this that Roach is misguiding people.
Now it happened that I accidentally really bumped into him (I was the only monk there when I remember correctly, and I refused to take a seat in the first row which the organisers offered. I insisted to sit in the back rows.) after his public talk. When he saw me he turned to me and he preached me things about the ego and it’s strange plays. What he said felt strange, bizarre and unconnected to the situation. Just using spiritual language for what ever reason but not appropriate to the situation.
I would neither recommend to go or not to go but if you go, observe yourself, be mindful, be aware of your feelings and thoughts and how they change, listen well and see and judge for yourself if these are Buddha’s teachings / is in line with Buddha’s teachings, or not.
For me it was worth to go because I base my knowledge or relate all what I heard and read to these experiences and that makes my judgments more grounded, I think. So, it was finally helpful to make up my own mind about Roach by attending a talk of him! HTH
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Gregg Geist on August 21, 2015 at 7:05 pm
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Marriage is power. In a world that has been sexist for so long, even Buddhism has suffered from it. As with Christianity, women were seen as a kind of accessory object, and target of desire, and not as possible cohorts. As a spiritual and economic liability, women were considered a distraction from pursuing something like a spiritual quest. In Catholicism, and apparently in Buddhism, this has translated to sex being a weakness and marriage being a liability. But this is not so. Marriage is power and a married yogi will have more of all of the kinds of strengths needed to advance a cause of bettering the world, just as a married priest does. This crisis happened in Catholicism centuries ago and the married priests call it a reformation. Does Buddhism need a reformation? Yes.12
Bristollad on August 24, 2015 at 7:00 am
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“marriage is power” – why?
“in a world that has been sexist for so long, even Buddhism has suffered from it” – yes, some buddhists are and have been sexist
“women were considered a distraction from pursuing something like a spiritual quest” – no, attachment is the cause of suffering for everyone
“a married yogi will have more of all of the kinds of strengths needed…just as a married priest does” – why?
“this crisis happened in Catholicism centuries ago and the married priests call it a reformation. Does Buddhism need a reformation? Yes” – this seems to ignore the four-fold assembly that the Buddha established – lay and ordained women, lay and ordained men;. practising the path has never been restricted to ordained renunciates in Buddhism.
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Worth Gurkin on October 24, 2015 at 2:45 am
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I was a student of Geshe Michael for several years. I completed the ACI course. I met with him privately many times and attended many of his teachings. Concurrently with my relationship with Geshe Michael I had another teacher, Geshe Tsulga, a Tibetan and a contemporary of the Dalai Lama. My main attraction to Geshe Michael was that I could speak to him in English, and we both understood the subtleties of the English language. Geshe Tsulga’s English and my Tibetan were equally poor. This Geshe Michael that I read about in these articles is so different from the one I knew. I knew someone who treated me with great tenderness, as if I were a fragile snowflake, beautiful and unique and apt to disappear at any moment. Ultimately I withdrew from his sphere of influence simply because I knew one thing for certain: Until I had a truly kind heart, until I had true Bodhicitta, the wish to become a fully enlightened Buddha purely for the sake of all sentient beings, any further effort was futile if not outright dangerous. Now I try on a daily basis to embrace that “boss in the office with the red angry face” that he talked about in his early lectures, as a projection of my own negative karma. It is difficult but I am making progress. Very small but very real steps. For this I am forever grateful to my teacher Geshe Michael.14
No name on October 26, 2015 at 11:42 pm
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Memories of things past do not negate or justify subsequent inappropriate behaviour
Hitler was a beautiful baby but that means nothing in light of his subsequent behaviour
Perhaps instead of clinging to sentiment it might be more useful to contemplate the lesson of impermanence.”well he never did me any harm” sounds remarkably lacking in empathy15
Gregg Geist on October 27, 2015 at 6:20 pm
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Well, since all of our conclusions ultimately rest on memories of things past (ours or other people’s that have been communicated to us) I guess we’re in pretty sorry shape. Maybe there wasn’t a Hitler (since all historical documentation of him was ultimately based on memories) or for that matter, the events at Isipatana, the Buddha, sages, all of it. Then again, more to the point, discounting people’s stories outright is definitely lacking in empathy.16
tenpel on October 27, 2015 at 9:25 pm
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I think you either misunderstood or distort what he said: “Memories of things past do not negate or justify subsequent inappropriate behaviour” … I understand this as the argument, when there was something good in the past you can remember, this is no reason to conclude that in the presence there is no problem coming from the same person whom you have a good memory of. This is a valid argument, isn’t it?
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tenpel on October 27, 2015 at 1:36 pm
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It is one of the most difficult things of students of misleading teachers to separate their good experiences from the abusive or misleading/manipulative behaviour of their teachers.
Teachers and experiences are not one-dimensional, qualities and faults + good and bad experiences + progress and degeneration can coexist. If you read Robert Jay Lifton’s “Destroying the World to save it” you can see that even after Shoko Asahara was definitely found guilty of crimes some of his students couldn’t make any sense of their good experiences and his negative and manipulative actions. Not being able to discriminate this correctly they refused to acknowledge the crimes, denied these and clung to their good experience as the only valid point of view regarding this misleading guru.
It is also interesting to read and to understand, how Asahara abused the Indo-Tibetan concept of “Guru Yoga” to manipulate his students. It might be enlightening for any Buddhist to read this book!
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tenpel on September 12, 2016 at 9:51 pm
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There is a new interesting article by Why I Joined—And Left—A Yoga Cult by Kristin Diversi. I added it to the Update section.
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Tom on March 8, 2017 at 8:21 pm
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I was at Diamond Mountain, I saw exactly how they acted, how the people worshipped them, and how they loved it, reveled in it. For anyone able to see the illusion, it was easy to see in these two “lamas.” They used enlightenment and emptiness to lure in followers/believers.
Conveniently, Roach always bitched out whenever confronted by someone who knew his true intentions.
After Ian died, I heard Christie was taken away to be de-brainwashed. Sad, but that’s karma for ya.20
tenpel on March 8, 2017 at 11:13 pm
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Thank you. I met Ian in Berlin and I also met Roach in Berlin.
As far as I have experienced it, Roach seems to have quickly figured out that I am a non-follower of him and very sceptical (I was the only monk at that occasion and refused to sit in the first row as been offered but retreated to the back rows). Though I didn’t want to meet him, we met and he told me about the dangers of the ego (I didn’t ask him to teach me about that subject). What I understood was, he is speaking about the dangers of MY ego, which doesn’t have much belief in his ego 😉 So, I think or felt, he basically wanted to undermine my faith in my own intuition or my own judgment which didn’t believe in his non-dharmic message.
However, it was interesting to see how many fell pray to him when he taught how to use the “understanding of emptiness” to fulfil one’s desire for money, a girl or dream partner and mundane success. I was quite alone in my scepticism and even long standing Buddhists were convinced or amazed of his message. I didn’t say anything. Just listened what people enthusiastically said about his talk. When they asked me after a while what I was thinking about his talk, I replied: ‘What are your mind states now? For me it feels like you are very excited about the promises of dream partners, money and success, your mind is excited. I think this is desire. If your desire increases, do you think this is the Dharma? For me it is not.’ Nobody gave a reply to that question. All were silent and some nodded with their heads …
Ian and his girlfriend at that time were at our center (a fully fledged cult) and they helped us also to translate a sutra – about the kindness of the parents. He was a nice chap. Very sad that he had to die so early!
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Benito Culebro on October 11, 2018 at 5:35 pm
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siddharta gautama he was not a virgin, even her life before was not. He broke with many paradigms that even saw women as an obstacle to achieving enlightenment and generally were not taught the sacred texts of India. Buddha came to break with all that and it is known that women participated in meditation and learned spirituality as well as men. Buddhists were asked to give a celibate vote to propagate their teachings, but only for those who had that purpose in that life. Little by little men were losing the deepest knowledge and began to create a discipline different from the essential one.
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Amy Gunn on February 27, 2019 at 8:49 pm
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Enjoy the message. Don’t listen to or consider any of the info about his lifestyle. His message is pure and complete and we can all take what we like and disregarded the rest. I have 4 of his books. They are great inspiration and reminder for my own life. What is sad is that there are those that want to discredit others. I personally don’t believe anything that is written or said about another. Free will people. His books are uplifting and enjoyable to listen to or read. They have changed my life. I appreciate all his efforts to make this info comprehensive.23
tenpel on February 28, 2019 at 7:03 pm
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I am happy that it is so helpful for you.
I don’t agree to ignore the rest. The views that led to GMR‘s actions are expressed more or less subtle in his writings too. A reader being uncritical will swallow them on the way and they might have a damaging impact. Just to give you an example. I listened to a public teaching by him with Christy on his side. Not only was it partially distorting what he told (misinformation) but he also triggered the attachment of people. I discussed after his talk with some of the enthusiasts. (Only after listening to them silently and when they asked me.) My short cut was: while listening to you, observing you I felt and still feel and see a lot of excitement, agitation, restlessness. Do you think what is now in your mind is the dharma or are it some hopes with respect to the fulfilments of mundane desires? (GMR spoke of how to get a lot of money, be successful in business, finding a dream partner, sexual activity for the “mature” or “advanced” … IMO he just triggered people’s attachments and hopes. For me this is not the dharma.)
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Vier buddhistische Prinzipien des Erfolgs im Business - barbarabryce.com on May 26, 2019 at 10:07 am
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[…] daraus machen, darf jeder für sich selbst entscheiden. Geshe Michael Roach ist mittlerweile auch umstritten, da er nicht mehr zölibatär lebt und der neue Mann seiner Exfrau auf mysteriöse Weise während […]
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Gotti on September 15, 2019 at 7:05 pm
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In a philosophical seminar in university of Kassel (where I was affiliated) titled “Ethik in der Zeit der Globalisierung – buddhistische Ethik für die Wirtschaft?” (Prof. Dr. M.Pfannkuche, Univ. Kassel, WS09) the book “die weisheit des Diamanten” by M. Roach has been proposed as literature. They recommended it with a recension of the newspaper “Rheinpfalz”, which seemingly has been taken from “libri.de” (I can’t reconstruct that today – 10 years later) but there is also a link to amazon where the same recommendation is used. See https://www.amazon.de/Die-Weisheit-Diamanten-Buddhistische-beruflichen/dp/342334198X and open “Kundenrezensionen”. It seems unbelievable…26
tenpel on September 15, 2019 at 11:14 pm
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I think the book has some value besides the controversies. It teaches for instance how important honesty and fairness is because customers or clients will remember if they were treated fairly and correctly. I wouldn’t recommend it nowadays but I think it has benefits.
