2021/10/17

Taoism: The Parting of the Way: Welch Jr., Holmes H

Taoism: The Parting of the Way: Welch Jr., Holmes H.: 9780807059739: Amazon.com: Books



Taoism: The Parting of the Way Paperback – June 1, 1971
by Holmes H. Welch Jr. (Author)
4.7 out of 5 stars 34 ratings


Called "a first-rate piece of work" by T. S. Eliot, this book offers a comprehensive discussion of Taoism, one of the world's major religions, as well as a study of the Tao te ching, the best known Taoist text, and Lao-tzu as a Taoist prototype.
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208 pages
June 1, 1971
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Editorial Reviews

Review
"Of very definite value and interest to specialists as well as laymen. in part, this virtue is owing to the enthusiasm, humor, lucitiy, and delightful informality he brings to his task, but it rests even more on a quite unusual capacity for analytical insight and informed understanding."—Derk Bodde, Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies

"Clarifies a large area of literature and history that has been a mystery to the West and makes fascinating reading even for those whose interest is casual."
—The New Yorker

From the Back Cover
This book offers a comprehensive discussion of Taoism, one of the world's major religions, as well as a study of the Tao te ching, the best known Taoist text, Lao-Tzu as a Taoist prototype.
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Top reviews from the United States


Ansel Schmidt

5.0 out of 5 stars Not Arthur Waley, but greatReviewed in the United States on May 13, 2013
Verified Purchase

Following Ursula LeGuin's suggestion, I bought this book when I wanted to dive deeper into Taoism than Wikipedia allows. Welch does an admirable job describing the different movements that claim the mantle, so as LeGuin says, it's an excellent introduction to Lao Tzu et al. and those who would be his followers. 

His history of the Taoist religions is thorough and carefully done, 
but his exploratory essays on philosophical Taoism are the reason this book is so good. 
Erudite and highly readable, they let me sink my teeth into the meat of Taoist thought within a few pages. Since Welch doesn't seem to have followed up on this book in any substantial way, I quickly found my way to Arthur Waley, whose unique perspective and towering scholarship rewards even an amateur and a dabbler like me, but even someone who's already read Waley's The Way and Its Power four times will find something original and thought-provoking in Welch's studies.

16 people found this helpful


D V McL

5.0 out of 5 stars Get this along with your chosen 'translation"Reviewed in the United States on March 17, 2013
Verified Purchase
This book was recommended to me by an Asian scholar and, although not new, is hands down the best explanation of the Tao te ching and its author I've come across - I would say a vital accompaniment to any "translation."

4 people found this helpful

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David W. Shaver

5.0 out of 5 stars Good bookReviewed in the United States on September 5, 2010
Verified Purchase
Excellent older book on the Tao Te Ching and Taoism. Considering it's age and current scholarship it still definitely bears reading.

One person found this helpful

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John L. Murphy

4.0 out of 5 stars How does this hold up six decades on?Reviewed in the United States on September 19, 2017

How does this hold up six decades on? Ursula Le Guin in her 1997 "creative interpretation" of the Tao Te Ching footnotes this as her recommended book to learn more. It was slightly revised in 1966 and reprinted 1971, but it does not appear to have been substantially altered. Holmes Welch was evidently a Sinologist with a sense of humor. This appearing the same year that Alan Watts' "The Way of Zen" and amidst the Beat dharma-bums, it must have appealed to Le Guin and those then eager to learn about the Tao. As with Watts' first chapter on the Tao, so with Holmes here: it's great.

Welch builds on Arthur Waley's translation and scholarship. Like Watts, Welch interprets academic findings for a wider audience. His style is lively and his examples vivid. He acknowledges as have all scholars the difficulty of unwrapping the enigmas within the verses attributed to one Lao Tzu.

Part two gives, nonetheless, Welch's take on the TTC. Not resisting the Tao, going back to the "uncarved block" and the inherent purity of original nature, and meditation, especially through trance states, engages Holmes. He seems bent on exploring the TTC at least in part as trance-guide. This determination did not captivate me as much as did him, but he for his time period attempts to line up his argument with then-current academia.

He does not separate "philosophical Taoism" from the shamanic, magical, and alchemical pursuits of the ancient Chinese. He admits these were all present around the era of the Tao's elucidation in writing. Yet he, as many Westerners have sympathized with, favors an earlier stage when the Tao was not reduced to "religious Taoism." The brief florescence of the Pure Conversation movement appears to be the closest later attempt to return to purity. This section is not as fact-filled and dense as that of Eva Wong's "Taoism: An Essential Guide" but it is weighed down inevitably by the arcana and dates and names which may confound a newcomer or a casual inquirer. Back then, too, Holmes had little reason to be optimistic about Taoist survival in Mao's China. This segues into the last part. He's already lambasted post-war Ike's America for its warmongering and complacency.

More follows as Welch speculates on how far (not much) Taoism might be adopted in his own mid-century American mindset and practical application. This shows the work's age. But as I type this, the old Cold War bugaboos of Russia and Korea again loom as targets of U.S. foreign policy. Mainstream religion may have faded since 1957 but it distorted or not certainly keeps a hold over billions. Many more than in Holmes' decade seek guidance from Eastern traditions and approaches.

 Consumerism has not faded, but some spiritual or secular kindred in the wake of the counterculture seek simpler lifestyles. They may find within "Taoism: The Parting of the Way" as I did a wise, and wry and witty now and then, exploration of The Way which has not worn out its welcome. My book is full of my highlights, surely indicative of a stimulating study for reflection.

8 people found this helpful

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Phil Myers

4.0 out of 5 stars A valuable introductionReviewed in the United States on September 9, 2005

That Holmes Welch set himself a formidable task in offering a brief general introduction to Taoism is testified to by the lack of any other serviceable attempts on the part of Western writers to codify the vague, mystical, and powerful formulations of Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching.

Welch's short book contains 4 parts. In the first part, he explains that the ambiguous nature of the ancient Chinese characters, compounded by the oftent inscrutable and paradoxical writing style of Lao Tzu himself, makes definitive translation and interpretation of the text impossible.

In the second part, he offers his own informed and wise interpretation of the the Tao Te Ching, explicating three inter-related central concepts: 
(1)the doctrine of 'wu-wei' (spontaneity and non-interference in action), 
(2)the concept of 'pu' (original human nature (literally 'the uncarved block'), the way of the newborn child as an ideal counterposed to the adult corruption introduced by society), and 
(3)the mystical experience of the 'tao', or 'way' of the universe through meditation.

In the third part, Welch lays out the bizarre history of the development of Taoism since Lao Tzu, its intersections with other religions, and its devolution into arcane practices of asceticism, alchemy, hygiene, and geomancy.

In the final section, Welch offers a reading of the relevance of Lao Tzu's teachings to the present day (c. 1950s) that now seems pretty dated and hackneyed.

I recommend the first 2 parts as a valuable and illuminating companion text for anyone reading the Tao Te Ching.

20 people found this helpful

Top reviews from other countries
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Taoism: The Parting of the Way

 3.84  ·   Rating details ·  95 ratings  ·  10 reviews
This book offers a comprehensive discussion of Taoism, one of the world's major religions, as well as a study of the Tao te ching, the best known Taoist text, Lao-Tzu as a Taoist prototype. (less)

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Paperback208 pages
Published June 1st 1971 by Beacon Press (first published January 1st 1957)
Conrad Zero
Dec 06, 2020rated it it was amazing
My love of Taoist philosophy lead me to add a BA in Eastern Philosophy onto my Computer Science degree (One I like, and one to pay the bills. I'll let you decide which is which.) While writing my senior research project, I discovered Welch's Taoism: The Parting of the Way. I just reread this book after a lifetime of reading writings, translations and interpretations of Eastern Philosophies. Welsh does an admirable job putting this extremely slippery, volatile and nebulous subject into context.

It's not a necessary text for those who want to experience Taoism. In fact, all the history and interplay with the other rulers, religions and rebellions might be distracting. Like reading about the life and upbringing of Jean-Claude Killy won't make you a better skier.

That said, it's a good resource for those who want to talk intelligently about Taoism to someone else. If you want to understand how Taoist philosophy relates to elements like alchemy, Buddhism, Confucianism, immortality, Yellow Turbans, magic mushrooms, Celestial Emperors, and even the Taoist Church, then this book is essential reading. 
Ditto if you are already versed in the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu and just want to explore the history and influences behind the philosophy.

Lao Tzu would likely not approve, but I do. I've never dog-eared so many pages in a book, underlined as many words or starred as many paragraphs as I have in this book. 
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Bob Nichols
Jun 08, 2012rated it it was ok
In the first chapter, Welch discusses the problem of interpreting Lao Tsu and Tao Te Ching: whether the writing was a compilation of numerous writers over an extended period of time that reflected differing perspectives, or whether Lao Tzu even existed at all. This is the most interesting part of the book (the author also writes about the four primary schools of Taoism that subsequently emerged, three of which focused on how to achieve life after death, and how Taoism eventually merged with elements of Buddhism and Confucianism).

This uncertain history does not stop Welch from treating Tao Te Ching as a comprehensive and systematic philosophy of life. Humans are good. It is society that corrupts. Aggression begets aggression. Inaction is good for it lets our good natures emerge and flower. By inaction, Welch means, for example, not to push morality on others and not to stand out in rank and value. We need "an anonymity program," he writes, and we need to minimize our desires ("You need not," he simply states). While the Tao can give us lessons for modern life, Welch says it is a challenge for most of us who are "unable to reconcile ourselves to a quieter role on the earth."

The style of Tao Te Ching "is one of extraordinary compression," the author says and reading it is "an act of creation." One gets the sense that this is what he has done in putting forth some of his "inaction" perspective as it might apply to modern-day life. The key point in this regard is that he downplays the role of strength, thinking it leads only to aggression and counter aggression, and simplistically dismisses strength and its contribution to survival by saying it didn't work for the dinosaurs. Ergo, peace through strength doesn't really work. That's not real and it may not be an accurate reading of the Tao which also teaches balance. Balance means both not to impose and to resist being imposed upon. This point the author does not stress.
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Jeffrey Thomas
May 31, 2017rated it really liked it
Very interesting book; I don’t think I could have read it—I certainly couldn’t have read it as profitably—before I became a thoroughgoing atheist-by-way-of-skepticism. 
Really worthwhile because Welch: 
1) makes it clear how extremely ambiguous the original is (its ambiguity being partly because of the Tao Te Ching’s origins and textual changes being lost in the unrecorded past; the other part because of its poetic or gnomic style), which means that interpretations can vary widely, being mostly ethical or speculatively philosophical; and 
2) describes the origins and streams of the Taoist church in alchemical and other means of striving for physical immortality, in a polytheism that is either interior or exterior, in a great misinterpretation of the Tao Te Ching, and in a melding of principles that may be found in the TTC, in Buddhism, and in Confucianism, showing how the Taoist church has little or nothing to do with the TTC. If I’ve gotten that much right, I’m quite certain that I’ve left out much that I should have included. I think the most important bit of my little writeup here, is that the objectivity and critical distance afforded by my shift to atheism made it possible for me to read Welch’s book without a TTC interpretation of my own interfering. (less)
Yo'el Erez
If you want a history of Taoism without haughty judgement and mischaracterization, this is the book. Phenomenal.
Jordan Youd
Jul 27, 2020rated it really liked it
I read this book because Ursula K Le Guin suggests it as a good primer on philosophical and historical Taoism. I read it as a way to gain a deeper understanding of the Tao Ti Ching, and it provides just that. I won’t say that it was an enjoyable read, for the reason that it was quite dry and so technical that unless Taoism is a pre-existing interest of yours there is no reason to read this book. By pointing this out, I realize that I am suggesting that most readers shouldn’t read The Parting of the Way, but if Taoism is in your wheel house, then this book ought to be treated as essential reading. (less)
Jeff
Jan 07, 2012rated it liked it
Recommended to Jeff by: Ursula Le Guin
Shelves: non-fiction
Only 3 stars cuz i expected more exegesis of the Tao Te Ching. I know that i wanted more of it. I NEED more. Alas, at least half of this book is history, not philosophy, not metaphysics, not religion. So if you really want a Sinologist's history of Taoism, you're sure to enjoy this more than i did.

I picked it up because i knew i'd need help with the Tao and the edition i read was Ursula Le Guin's amalgamation in which she says, "If you want to know more about Taoism, or would like some help and guidance in reading the Tao Te Ching, the best, soundest, clearest introduction and guide is still Holmes Welch's...."

Some ideas and quotes:
"The two preceding sections, by keeping the field of vision rigidly confined to the ethical level of the Tao Te Ching, presented it falsely." [i agree with Welch that the Tao is more about philosophy than about politics or moral hygiene]

"We must not make fun of mystics for inconsistency. If they said no more about their vision than what they could put in precise, apposite terminology, we would learn nothing at all. We must be content with their symbols and similes." [the Tao contains almost no direct language and i think that's its strength]

From page 165 through to about 170, Welch attempts to provide Lao Tzu's answer to how to mend America's troubles or at least to tell us how America's troubles originated. Welch's Lao Tzu impersonation rings true for me and it's a pretty damned funny but depressing portrait of the American personality.

In conclusion, i find it hard not to admire Welch for how he thinks through the question of authorship of the Tao Te Ching, which is unfairly hidden away in Appendix I at the back of the book.

I leave you with a Taoist joke of sorts (or maybe it's a Zen koan):
Liu Ling was—according to Welch—the most celebrated drinker among the Seven Sages as well as "the person who liked to go about his house naked. Once he was interrupted by some stuffy Confucian visitors. They expressed surprise at the absence of trousers. Liu replied, 'The whole universe is my house and this room is my trousers. What are you doing here inside my trousers!'"
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Amber
Jul 19, 2010rated it it was amazing
As a follower of the Tao, I was thrilled to see this book on the library shelf of my yoga studio. Having read various translations of the Tao te Ching, I appreciated Welch's interpretation of its main ideas: that wu-wei is inaction, that inaction is nonaggression, and so forth. That being said, this would also be an ideal book for someone who is first learning about the Tao.

In addition to exploring Taoist philosophy, the book includes the legend of the author Lao-Tzu (old man) and posits who he might actually have been. There is a lengthy history of the Taoist religion which I didn't read because Welch states from the very beginning that it had nothing to do with the philosophies in the actual Tao te Ching.

At the end Welch posits what Lao-Tzu might have said to the modern world (The book was written in the 50's.). This portion was interesting though some of it is dated (as can be expected). 
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Virginia Simson
Jan 04, 2016rated it it was amazing
Just a great great book to read and think about. I love his tone; he has an almost Taoist attitude towards his own academism!

Really, I wish I'd read this book years ago. It helps so much at putting all the different threads of thought into a workable timeline.

His admiration of Waley is a Good Thing, too.

...more
Adrienne
Jan 17, 2008rated it it was amazing
Shelves: religionown
I love the beginning chapters, particularly the discussions of the Tao, Wu-Wei, and Mu. I have returned to this book repeatedly to reread and think about the nature of Tao, the Absolute Tao, and Wu-Wei.





알라딘: 지금도 쓸쓸하냐

알라딘: [전자책] 지금도 쓸쓸하냐

[eBook] 지금도 쓸쓸하냐 - 2004년 1월
 이 달의 책 선정 (간행물윤리위원회) 
이현주 (지은이)샨티2014-01-16 



책소개

구름이 묻고 산이 답한다는 뜻의 '운문산답(雲問山答)' 시리즈 1권. 문답형식으로 된 67편의 글을 실었는데, 구름처럼 이리저리 돌아다니며 언제나 바뀌고 있는 '나'가 물으면, 산처럼 늘 거기에 있고 한결같이 변함없는 또 다른 '나'가 대답하는 형식의 띄고 있다.

자신 안에 숨어있는 참나 혹은 하나님의 목소리를 통해 진리를 깨닫고 행복을 느낄 수 있도록 도와주는 차분한 글들이다.
목차
1
그렇다면 누워 있거라 / 지렁이 앞에서 / 별 것 아닌 것 / 한 그루 능금나무 / 외로움 / 모든 것이 돈으로 바뀌는 세상에서 / 더 자세히 보아라 / '이것이 진리다' 하고 말하는 자는 / 장애물과 장애 / 에고 뭉치 / 첫걸음 / 잘려진 나무 등걸 / 피장파장 / 제대로 늙는 비결 / 참 종교 거짓 종교 / 이미 완벽하다 / 삶과 죽음 / 아무것도 하지 말아라 / 흐름이 있을 뿐 / 무엇을 묻고 있느냐 / 세상 모든 것이 네 것이다 / '그것' 아닌 '이것'으로 살기 / 숨을 '쉰다'는 것

2
쓸쓸함 / 그냥 보아라 1 / 그냥 보아라 2 / 지금도 쓸쓸하냐? / 작은 일 큰 일 / 좋은 일 / 천사들과 함께 살아온 천사 / 충분히 맛보아라 / 뻥튀기 과자 / 모든 것이 바로 너다 /곶감 한 개와 오랜 버릇 / 깨달음의 길 / 왼뺨 오른뺨 / 승부에 대한 집착 / 착각 / 지저귀는 것들이 새들인가? / 농과 공 / 눈 밝은 것과 감사하는 것 / 폭력 / 돋보기 / 돈을 사랑하는 것 / 꿈속의 에고들 / 불에 타서 재가 된 새끼줄처럼 / 자책도 자긍도 / 밥 먹을 때에는 밥을 먹어라

3
사랑하지 말아라 / 이윽고 때가 되면 / 용서받지 못할 죄 / 어머니 작품 / 단소 탓이 아니라면 / 진정한 '반미' / 전쟁과 전쟁 놀이 / 에고를 에고로 반대하면 / 마찬가지 / 중요한 것은 마지막 말 / 치유되지 않은 상처 / 와이셔츠와 티셔츠 / 불편부당 / 하고 싶었던 일들 / 접시꽃 / 평화를 위해 일하는 사람 / 크바스도프의 장애 / 안다는 것은 기억한다는 것 / 하느님은 사랑만 보신다

저자 및 역자소개
이현주 (지은이) 
관옥觀玉이라고도 부르며, ‘이 아무개’ 혹은 같은 뜻의 한자 ‘무무无無’라는 필명을 쓰고 있다. 1944년 충주에서 태어나 감리교신학대학교를 졸업했다. 목사이자 동화작가이자 번역가이며, 교회와 대학 등에서 말씀도 나눈다. 동서양의 고전을 넘나드는 글들을 쓰고 있으며, 무위당无爲堂 장일순 선생과 함께 『노자 이야기』를 펴냈다. 옮긴 책으로 『지금 이 순간이 나의 집입니다』, 『너는 이미 기적이다』, 『틱낫한 기도의 힘』, 『그리스도의 계시들』 등이 있다.
최근작 : <관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기>,<관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기 (양장)>,<부모 되기, 사람 되기> … 총 269종 (모두보기)
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출판사 제공 책소개

2004년 1월 이 달의 책 선정(간행물윤리위원회)
2005년 한국의 책 번역지원도서

이아무개 목사가 자기 속 또 하나의 자기와 나눈 마음의 대화록

'위로와 안식, 그리고 깨달음을 위한 기도'라 불러도 좋을 이 책은,
구름처럼 이리저리 돌아다니며 언제나 바뀌고 있는 '나'가 물으면,
산처럼 늘 거기에 있고 한결같이 변함없는 또 다른 '나'가 대답을 하는 형식을 띠고 있습니다.
예컨대, 쓸쓸함에 겨워하는 '나'에게 쓸쓸함도 손님이라고, 잘 대접해 보내라고
또 하나의 '나'가 말합니다. 그 또 하나의 '나'는 오랜 마음 공부 길에서 만난 그의 스승이기도 합니다.

"선생님, 오늘 종일토록 참 쓸쓸했습니다."
"알고 있다. 축하한다."
"축하한다고요? 무엇을 말입니까?"
"네가 하루종일 쓸쓸했다는 사실을. 쓸쓸함도 너에게 온 손님이다. 지극 정성으로 대접하여라."
"어떻게 하는 것이 쓸쓸함을 대접하는 겁니까?"
"쓸쓸한 만큼 쓸쓸하되, 그것을 떨쳐버리거나 움켜잡으려고 하지 말아라.
너에게 온 손님이니 때가 되면 떠날 것이다."
―〈쓸쓸함〉중에서

이현주 목사는 이 책에 실린 67편의 문답 글을 통해 하늘과 땅과 별과 바람에게서 들을 수 있는
자연의 소리, 하느님의 소리를 듣는 법을 일러주고 있습니다. 동시에 이 책은 한평생
'마음 공부'의 길에 매진해 온 그의 오랜 구도자적 삶이 빚어낸 열매라 해도 좋을 것입니다.
그의 이런 달고 시원한 열매를 맛보는 것은 또한 그와 동시대를 사는 우리의 즐거움이 아닐까 합니다.
억지스럽지 않음 가운데서, 먹고 일하는 평범한 일상 속에서 오히려 성장을 위한 행복한 경험이
가능하다는 그의 전언은 그래서 이 고집스럽고 팍팍한 세상 여행길에
참으로 큰 위안이 아닐 수 없습니다.

깨달음이 개인의 차원에 머물지 않고 사회의 차원으로 이어지는 문제임을 보여주는
그의 글 한토막만 더 소개해 봅니다.

"선생님, 깨달음을 추구한다는 게 무엇입니까?……
사회 현실을 외면하면서 깨달음의 길을 갈 수 있는 겁니까?"
"길을 밟지 않고서 길을 갈 수 있느냐?…… 사회 현실을 외면하고서 갈 수 있는 길이 있다면
그것은 '사탄의 길'이지 '깨달음의 길'은 아니다. 속지 말아라.
깨달음이란, 밥 먹고 일하고 사람 사귀는 평범한 접기

마이리뷰

     
아내에게 주는 책을 먼저 읽다 새창으로 보기
책을 고르는 데는 여러 가지 기준이 있겠지만, 내 경우는 나의 기분이 책을 선택하는데 크게 좌우될 때가 있다. 기분이 우울할 때에는 이성적으로 책을 선택하는 것이 아니라 마치 우연을 가장한 운명이라도 만나려는 듯 그렇게 내 감각에 따른다. 때로는 표지디자인 때문에, 어떤 때는 제목 때문에, 어떤 때는 나를 위로해주리라 믿는 저자 때문에 책을 고른다. 아내에게서 책을 그만 사보라는 충고 아닌 충고를 듣고, 서점에 들어가 고른 책이 다름 아닌 ꡔ지금도 쓸쓸하냐ꡕ(이 아무개/샨티/2003)이다. (책을 그만 사라는 충고를 듣고 곧장 서점으로 달려가는 꼴이라니…)

이현주 목사는 자신의 단독 저서일 경우 이제는 자신의 본명을 밝히지 않고 이 아무개라고 저자이름을 써놓는다. ‘아무개’는 특정인을 지칭하는 지시어가 아니라 일반적인 사람을 통칭하는 말이다. 이현주 목사는 그러니까 자신이 특정인으로 불리는 것을 거부하는 것이라 할 수 있다. 그는 원래 감리교단에 몸을 담고 있었지만 이제는 그것마저 자진하여 버림으로 홀홀단신 목사일을 하고 있다. 어디에도 얽히거나 구속되지 않으려는 그가 사실은 조금 부럽기도 하고 많이 두렵기도 하다. 무엇이 그로 하여금 마냥 버리게 만드는 것일까? 그는 직업상 기독교 목사이지만 그의 저술에는 하느님과 예수님만 나오는 것이 아니라 부처가 나오고 공자, 노자, 장자도 나온다. 그러니까 그가 믿는 하느님은 - 이런 표현이 가능하다면 - 이미 기존의 기독교 범주에서 멀찌감치 벗어나 있는 것이다. 그런 의미에서 그는 목사이면서 목사가 아니다.

이 책은 두개의 자아가 대화하고 있는 형식으로 짜여져 있다. ‘몸나’와 ‘얼나’라는 표현을 쓰기도 하고, 어찌보면 정신의 스승과 자신이 대화를 하는 것 같기도 한 이 형식이 참으로 독특하다. 매일 매일 스스로 반성하지 않는 사람은 결코 이룰 수 없는 경지. 그는 매일 스스로를 돌아보고 있는 것이다. ꡔ대학(大學)ꡕ에서 나오는 ‘날마다 새로워지는 (日新 又日新)’의 경지라 하겠다. 책에 나와 있는 한 대목 :

“선생님, 오늘 종일토록 참 쓸쓸합니다”
“알고 있다. 축하한다.”
“축하한다고요? 무엇을 말입니까?”
“내가 하루종일 쓸쓸했다는 사실을. (……) 쓸쓸함도 너에게 온 손님이다. 지극 정성으로 대접하여라.”
“어떻게 하는 것이 쓸쓸함을 잘 대접하는 겁니까?”
“쓸쓸한 만큼 쓸쓸하되, 그것을 떨쳐버리거나 움켜잡으려고 할지 말아라. 너에게 온 손님이니 때가 되면 떠날 것이다.”

‘모든 일을 기꺼이 받아들이되 아무것도 움켜잡지 말고 아무것에도 움켜잡히지 마’는 경지에 도달하는 것이 아마도 이 아무개의 삶의 목표가 아닌가 싶다. 그는 그렇게 매일 매일을 자기 자신과 대화하며 - 어쩌면 자신의 마음속에 있는 하느님과 대화하며 - 살아가고 있는 것이다. 목사이면서 목사가 아닌 이 아무개의 이 책을, 신자이면서 신자가 아닌 나의 아내에게 건네줘야지. 그녀에게 참으로 많은 도움이 되리라 믿으며.
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천사뚱 2003-12-10 공감(8) 댓글(0)
==
     
자아와의 대화

'쓸쓸함'은 인간 모두의 공통의 제목이 될수 있나 보다, 적어도 최소한 가끔씩이라도.
외로움, 쓸쓸함을 잊기 위해 우리가 하는 많은 생각들, 그리고 행동들.
본명이 이현주 라지만 책에는 '이아무개'라고 소개하고 있는 저자는, 쓸쓸함도 너에게 온 손님이지 지극 정성으로 대접하라고 말한다. 잘 대접한다는 것은, 그것을 떨쳐 버리거나 또는 반대로 움켜잡으려고 하지 말고, 때가 되면 떠나려니 하고 지켜보라는 것이다. '지켜보라는 것'.
관(觀). 지금 일어나고 있는 일 한가지에 마음을 집중하고 주시하라는 것이다. 내가 읽은 책에서만 해도 얼마나 여러 사람이 그것에 대해 말했던가. 이 책도 예외가 아니구나.

'생각하지 말아라. 사람 생각으로 가서 닿을 수 있는 경계가 아니다.'
생각이 뭐 그리 중요하랴. 사람이 하는 생각이 다 거기서 거기가 아니던가. 생각으로 우리가 얻는 답이 있던가.
'에고를 없애거나 부수려고 하지 말아라. 그러면 그럴수록 오히려 단단해지는 게 에고의 성질이다. 무시하지도 말아라. 무시당할 수록 에고는 그만큼 더 거칠어진다. 무시보다 더한 공격이 없기 때문이다.'
'모든 것을 자비의눈으로, 불쌍히 여기는 마음으로 지켜보거라.그것이 에고를 변화시킬 것이다.'

읽으면서 공감하는 이 말들이, 실제로 나의 일상에 얼마나 적용시킬 수 있을지 모르겠으나 감은 잡힌 것 같다. 나의 성격의 문제점을 볼 것이 아니라, 또는 어떻게 고쳐나가려고 애 쓸 것이 아니라, 나 자신은 그 자체로 유일무이한 소중하고 완벽한 존재. 그대로 받아들이고, 모든 감정을 충분히 맛보라. 다른 사람들의 입에서 나오는 말들은 그 사람들의 것. 상처 입고 마음 쓸 것이 아니다. 오는 대로 맞고, 가는 것을 지켜보라. 꾸미고 포장하려 하지 말라.

지금도 쓸쓸하냐? - 그렇다. 그 쓸쓸함을 지켜 보고 있는 중이다.

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hnine 2007-10-27 공감(2) 댓글(0)
 
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쓸쓸함이 느껴질때 문득 생각이 나는 글입니다 지금도 쓸쓸하냐고 물으면 그렇다고 대답해야지요 아무개님은 그냥 쓸쓸함이 찾아오면 반기라고 하니까요 그래, 쓸쓸함이 찾아왔기에 이 글을 써 봅니다 쓸쓸함을 모시면서.
플로라 2007-02-08 공감(1) 댓글(0)
==
     
그러다 망하면요? / 망해라!

어제 만난 언니가 재밌게 읽었단다. 자기 속에 있는 마음 둘이서 주고 받은 얘기가 재밌단다. 내가 좋아하는 언니가 재밌다고 하기에, 또 제목에 묘한 끌림이 있어 읽게 되었다. 진짜 재밌다. 코미디라고 할 정도다^^ 코미디라고 비하하는 게 아니고 정말 허를 찌르는 답변에 웃음이 나는 것이다. 요즘 기분이 울적할 때 그래서 쓸쓸한 기분이 들 때 이 책을 펼쳐 읽곤 했다. 거기 적힌 말들을 다 몸으로 안을 수는 없어도, 주고 받는 말을 읽다 보면 덜 쓸쓸한 기분이 든다. 세상살이가 그렇지? 어렵지? 근데 쉽지? 그런 마음이 든다. 지금 당장 다 이해하지 못 해도 곁에 두고 살면서 자주 만나고 싶은 책이다.

"전해 듣기로는 틱낫한의 '자두마을'에서도 수련회비를 거둔다는데요?"

"(중략) 너는 어떻게 할 참이냐? 만약에 네가 어떤 수련 모임을 주관한다면 회비를 거두겠느냐?"

"그런 짓은 하지 않겠습니다."

"그렇게 해라."

"그러다가 망하면요?"

"망해라!"

^^ 이런 식이다. 이렇게 흘러가는 대로 살 수 있으면 참 좋을텐데... 좀 더 연습을 하면 어느 순간 그리 되겠죠?

아무것도 미리 걱정할 것도 없고, 아무것도 미리 궁리할 것 없다. / 쓸쓸함도 너에게 온 손님이다. 지극 정성으로 대접하고, 쓸쓸한 만큼 쓸쓸하되, 그것을 떨쳐버리거나 움켜잡으려고 하지 말아라. 너에게 온 손님이니 때가 되면 떠날 것이다.


- 접기

Read The Tao of Jesus by John Beverley Butcher | Books

Read The Tao of Jesus by John Beverley Butcher | Books

The Tao of Jesus

The Tao of Jesus

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Revolving around the Celtic calendar, The Tao of Jesus is a lively book of 365 daily meditations (plus texts for moveable feast days and seasons) that integrate the spirit of Jesus into a creation-centered spirituality. Drawn from Christian, Taoist, Jewish, and aboriginal sources, it celebrates our connection to the Earth, the eternal Tao, and to one another. Culminating with chants, songs, rituals, and liturgies, The Tao of Jesus offers a delightful alternative to conventional church year readings and a practical, innovative guide that "helps us all celebrate the sacred in life" (Tolbert McCarroll).

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Read The Tao of Gardening: 농사의 도 by Pamela Metz | Books

Read The Tao of Gardening: A Collection of Inspirations Based on Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching Online by Pamela Metz | Books

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The Tao of Gardening: A Collection of Inspirations Based on Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching


By Pamela Metz
177 pages
1 hour

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at no additional cost

Description


Most books on gardening are read for information. Those books provide important details on the "do’s" and "don’ts" of growing things. This book, The Tao of Gardening, is to be read for inspiration. Using English translations of the classic Tao Te Ching by the Chinese sage, Lao Tzu, the author has adapted the words and concepts to the universal human activities of gardening. Rod MacIver, in Heron Dance, writes "The Tao Te Ching is a poem, a book, set of guideposts, leading to a way of being that is simple, and that is harmonious. It celebrates the workings of nature and of the universe, the cycles of life, the cycles of water. Taoism grew out of pre-dynastic China, a time when people lived close to the land. It is a philosophy more than a religion - rather than attempting to define the Great Mystery, it espouses humble acceptance, gentleness and non-interference. The Tao is about a harmony that can be more often sensed than described or understood." The Tao of Gardening then, is a way of gardening that is a journey and a way of living. It recognizes the inner and outer spiritual dimensions of the many parts that make up the whole of gardening.
==
농사의 도 - 농사짓는 이와 돌보는 이를 위한 노자의 도덕경  
파멜라 메츠 (지은이),이현주 (옮긴이)민들레2014-06-30원제 : The Tao of Gardening (2001년)

책소개

노자의 도덕경 81장을 자연과 인간의 교감을 주제로 다시 풀어 쓴 책이다. 사람살이의 근본인 농(農), 농사에서 배우고 자연에 작은 관심을 갖는 일이 진정 절실한 때이다. <농사의 도>는 땅에서 일하고, 사람을 돌보고, 자연과 우주 속에서 사는 이 근본적인 인간의 삶에 대하여 다시금 깊이 성찰하게 한다.

“예수도 노자도 사람인데 마땅히 배움의 과정을 거치지 않았을까요? 그런데 그에 대한 정보가 두 분 모두 없으니 궁금합니다. 그분들은 과연 누구한테서 무엇을 배웠을까요?” “노자께선 아예 대놓고 직접 말씀하셨지. 사람은 땅을 배우고 땅은 하늘을 배우고 하늘은 도를 배우고 도는 자연을 배운다(道法自然)고. 사람을 가르치는 스승의 스승의 스승이 곧 자연이라는 그런 말씀인 거라.”
목차
옮긴이의 말| 축하합니다 007

1 농사의 도 2 역설과 잡초 3 가지치기 4 끝없이
5 제철 6 어머니 땅 7 생명의 순환 8 물의 소중함
9 너무 10 제 몫의 보상 11 있는 것과 없는 것
12 논밭의 색 13 돌보는 사람 14 엮음
15 옛날 농부들 16 그 사이에 17 지혜로운 농부
18 균형 19 단순함 20 농부와 농부 아닌 사람들

21 넉넉한 논밭 22 논밭에 있는 도 23 준비
24 바닥에 몸을 낮추어 25 경작 이전 26 집 안
27 착한 농부 28 꽃가루받이 29 모든 일에 때가 있다
30 자연의 힘 31 농기구들 32 보이지 않는 에너지
33 앎과 부 34 기적 35 날마다 그날의 도
36 가을걷이 37 만족 38 농사의 힘 39 명상
40 할 일과 하지 않을 일

41 겸손 42 재생산 43 침묵 44 행복 45 계획
46 위험 무릅쓰기 47 기다림 48 도를 깨우침
49 만물을 돌봄 50 마음껏 쏟아 붓기 51 자연 사랑
52 가보의 씨앗 53 논밭이 사라질 때 54 영감
55 어린 묘목 56 끈기 57 날마다 펼쳐지는 신비
58 본보기 59 기름진 논밭 60 경작

61 농부의 생애 62 논밭의 중심 63 어려움
64 바꿔주기 65 평범한 논밭 66 물길 67 논밭의 교훈
68 자연과 더불어 일하기 69 자연에 굴복함
70 농부의 가슴 71 치유와 성장 72 대용품 73 느긋함
74 무상 75 정신과 영감 76 유연함 77 너그러움
78 물의 기운 79 실수에서 배우기 80 평화
81 논밭 속에 있는 도

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책속에서
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“예수도 노자도 사람인데 마땅히 배움의 과정을 거치지 않았을까요? 그런데 그에 대한 정보가 두 분 모두 없으니 궁금합니다. 그분들은 과연 누구한테서 무엇을 배웠을까요?”
“사람이 사람으로 살아가는 법을 자연한테서 배우지 않았겠나?”
“자연한테서 배웠다고요? 예. 그러고 보니 ... 더보기
저자 및 역자소개
파멜라 메츠 (Pamela K. Metz) (지은이) 
저자파일
 
신간알리미 신청
노자의 도덕경 81장을 ‘농사’를 주제로 다시 풀어 쓴 『농사의 도』 외에 『배움의 도 The Tao of Learning』, 『The Creative Tao』, 『The Tao of Loss and Grief』 그밖에 여러 책을 펴냈다.
최근작 : <농사의 도>,<배움의 도> … 총 3종 (모두보기)
이현주 (옮긴이) 
저자파일
 
신간알리미 신청
관옥觀玉이라고도 부르며, ‘이 아무개’ 혹은 같은 뜻의 한자 ‘무무无無’라는 필명을 쓰고 있다. 1944년 충주에서 태어나 감리교신학대학교를 졸업했다. 목사이자 동화작가이자 번역가이며, 교회와 대학 등에서 말씀도 나눈다. 동서양의 고전을 넘나드는 글들을 쓰고 있으며, 무위당无爲堂 장일순 선생과 함께 『노자 이야기』를 펴냈다. 옮긴 책으로 『지금 이 순간이 나의 집입니다』, 『너는 이미 기적이다』, 『틱낫한 기도의 힘』, 『그리스도의 계시들』 등이 있다.
최근작 : <관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기>,<관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기 (양장)>,<부모 되기, 사람 되기> … 총 269종 (모두보기)
출판사 소개
민들레 
출판사 페이지
  
신간알리미 신청

최근작 : <민들레 Vol.137>,<그렇게 가족이 된다>,<민들레 Vol.136>등 총 93종
대표분야 : 교육학 10위 (브랜드 지수 107,939점) 
출판사 제공 책소개
노자의 도덕경 81장을 자연과 인간의 교감을 주제로
다시 풀어 쓴 『농사의 도』
돌볼 때와 내버려둘 때를 알기

“예수도 노자도 사람인데 마땅히 배움의 과정을 거치지 않았을까요? 그런데 그에 대한 정보가 두 분 모두 없으니 궁금합니다. 그분들은 과연 누구한테서 무엇을 배웠을까요?”
“노자께선 아예 대놓고 직접 말씀하셨지. 사람은 땅을 배우고 땅은 하늘을 배우고 하늘은 도를 배우고 도는 자연을 배운다(道法自然)고. 사람을 가르치는 스승의 스승의 스승이 곧 자연이라는 그런 말씀인 거라.” - 옮긴이의 말 가운데

사람살이의 근본인 농(農), 농사에서 배우고 자연에 작은 관심을 갖는 일이 진정 절실한 때입니다. 농사짓는 사람들이 쫓겨나고 마을이 사라지는 세상에서 한 발 물러서서 세계를 논밭으로 볼 수 있다면 우리는 평화로운 환경을 금세 만들 수 있을 것입니다. 이로부터 우리는 ‘좋은 삶’에 대한 다른 상상을 열어갈 수 있습니다. 『농사의 도』는 땅에서 일하고, 사람을 돌보고, 자연과 우주 속에서 사는 이 근본적인 인간의 삶에 대하여 다시금 깊이 성찰하게 합니다.
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노자를 '농사의 도'에 결부시켜본 이야기들... 새창으로 보기
별 생각 없이 책을 읽다가, 마지막 페이지가 81장으로 끝나는 걸 보고,

다시 제 8장을 펴보았다.

81장은 노자 도덕경의 장절 수라는데 생각이 미쳤던 것인데,

역시나... 상선약수의 8장은 '물의 소중함'으로 되어 있다.

 

이 책은 노자를 농사짓는 일과 비유하여 나름의 논리를 펼쳐본 것이다.

그렇지만, 이 책은 동양의 '노자' 사상의 핵심을 놓치고 있는 듯 싶기도 하다.

 

노자는 '사마천의 사기'에서 '노자한비열전'에 묶였듯, 정치 사상의 하나이다.

노자의 반대편에 선 주장은 '억지로 다스리는 법치'였던 셈이다.

노자는 '억지로 다스리지 않아도 다스려지도록 하는 무위지치'를 역설한 셈이다.

 

서양의 어휘 '자연'은 '명사적'이다.

서양의 자연은 '극복'의 대상이고, '정복'의 대상으로 보기 쉽다.

인간은 그 '자연'에 가장 해로운 존재인 셈이다.

그러나 동양의 문맥에서 '자연'은 '부사적'이다.

'자연히', '저절로', '억지로 하지 않아도 스스로' 같은 의미다.

그것은 그야말로 자연스럽게 스며드는 경지를 드러내는 말이지 정복이나 분투의 대상은 아닌 셈이다.

 

노자의 '무위자연의 다스림'을 굳이 풀이하자면,

억지로 하지 않아도 저절로, 스스로 따르게 하는 다스림으로 풀어야 한다.

 

서문에서 무위당 선생과의 대화 중, '도법자연'을 '도는 자연을 배운다...'로 풀었다.

그 말이 그 말 같지만, 도법자연...이란, 자연을 배우는 것이 아니라,

진리란 스스로 그러게 되는 현상...을 배우는 것이라는 말이라 생각한다.

'자연'이 스승이라고 하고 있다.

'자연'이라는 대상이 배울점이 아니라,

세상 만물의 이치는 억지로 애쓴다고 되거나 안 되지 않으니, 저절로 이뤄지도록 그렇게 살라는 말이렷다.

 

1장, 도가도비가도... 구절을

농사의 도는 드러나 보이는 어떤 것이 아니다...라는 말과 연결지어 놓았다.

농사는 '곡식을 기르는 일'이기도 하지만,

자식 농사는 '자식을 기르는 일'이기도 하고,

나처럼 학생 농사 짓는 사람은 '아이들을 기르는 일'이기도 하다.

 

유치원 어린 아이들은 말귀를 잘 못 알아듣기도 하고, 상황 판단이 느리기도 하다.

그러니 아이인 것이다. 그런 어린 아이를 혼내는 일이야 당연지사지만,

귀싸대기를 올려붙여 아이가 날아가게 하는 일은 참 무서운 일이다.

나도 경력이 늘수록 가르치는 일은 <명시적 교육과정>처럼 드러나 보이는 것이 아니라는 생각이 절실하다.

수업을 똑부러지게 잘 하고, 아이들의 잘못을 명확하게 지적하는 교사도 물론 필요하지만,

아이들이 자라는 데는 <암시적 교육과정>이 큰 역할을 한다.

아이들은 자기들끼리 쑥덕공론을 하는 속에서 자란다.

 

노자 17장은 太上 下知有之 태상 하지유지  其次 親而譽之 기차 친이예지  其次 畏之 기차 외지  其次 侮之 기차 모지 이다.

가장 높은 것... 정치 철학이니 '임금'쯤 되겠다. 지도자로 치환해도 무방하고,

이 책에서는 농사꾼으로 비유했다.

 

제일은 아랫사람이 그 있다는 걸 아는 정도...

다음은 아랫사람이 친하고 높이는 존재. 그보다 못한 건 공포의 존재... 박정희 같은...

마지막은 업수이여기는 모멸스런 존재다. 이명박근혜 시대가 그렇지 안을까?

이 책에서는

지혜로운 농부는 논밭에 자라는 것들을 억지로 키우지 않는다.

때로는 사람들이 그가 있는 줄도 모른다.

지나치게 열심히 농사에 억지를 부리는 농부는

논밭을 망칠 수 있다.

일할 때 일하다가, 물러설 때 물러서는 농부는

논밭으로 하여금 스스로 논밭이 되게 한다.

이렇게 갖다 붙인다.

앞부분은 수긍이 가지만, 뒷부분은 좀 억지다 싶기도 하다.

아이들을 위한답시고 지나치게 '열심히' 일해온 경향이 있는 나로서는, 많이 돌아볼 일이다.

 

농사의 도에서는 '놓아버리는 것'이 중요하다.

어떤 것들을 놓아버림으로써 우리는 더욱 맑아진다.

만물이 저마다 제 길을 가고 있다는 진실을 깨달음으로써

도를 깨우치게 된다.

너무 많이 간섭하면, 논밭에 장애물을 늘어놓는 것이다.

 

경험상, 아이들도 그렇다.

냅둬도 잘 자란다.

선행 학습을 시키고 어쩌고... 들들 볶는 것은, '알묘조장'의 우를 범하게 된다.

싹을 쏘옥~쏘옥~ 뽑아 올려주는 일은,

그 싹의 뿌리를 흔들어놓아서 시들어 죽게 만든다.

 

52장. 근본은 언제나 분명치 않다.

열매를 맛볼 때, 네가 경험하는 것은 열매의 맛, 색깔, 크기, 감촉 따위들이다.

 

사과를 맛있게 베어 먹어도, 사과 고갱이의 씨앗이 번식의 기틀이 된다.

우리가 즐기고 경험하는 것은 핵심 고갱이가 아닌 주변의 것들이다.

우리를 즐겁게하는 경험들은 모두 삶의 고갱이가 아닐 가능성이 크다.

그렇다면, 고갱이는 무엇인가... 그 근본을 잊지 말아야 한다.

 

농사를 짓자면 기다리고 지켜보는 것이 더 좋을 때가 있다.

어떨 때는 그냥 놔 버리는 것이 더 낫다.

그것은,

자연으로 하여금 제 길을 가게 하고

자연스런 방식으로 논밭을 일구는 것이기도 하다.

 

두 해동안 고락을 같이 하던 아이들이 졸업반이 되었다.

이제 스물이라고 술집에서 민증을 검사해도 내쫓기지 않는다.

맥주라도 한 잔 놓고 애들 이야기를 듣고 있노라면,

아이들이 자란 것은, 부모의 관심도 아니고, 학교의 교육과정도 아니다.

아이들을 키운 것은 8할이 바람이다.

저절로 자기들끼리 비비적대면서,

상처를 입고 치유를 받으면서 그렇게 자란 것을 알게 된다.

부모나 학교는 아이들에게 상처를 덜주는 방향으로 바뀌려 노력해야 한다.

 

더 많은 것을 주려고 고민하지 말고,

아이들이 저절로 얻어가는 과정에 더 많은 것들이 녹아들도록...

아주 자연스럽게 교육과정을 덧대는일이 어른이 할 일이다.

 

불현듯, 노자를 열 권쯤 쌓아 두고 노닥거리고 싶다.

당연히 그러면 졸릴 것이다만... 그냥, 희망 사항이 그렇다.

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글샘 2015-01-15 공감(7) 댓글(0)
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Breathing Under Water물 밑에서 숨 쉬기 Rohr, Richard

Breathing Under Water: Spirituality And The Twelve Steps: Rohr, Richard: 8580001051727: Amazon.com: Books

Breathing Under Water: Spirituality And The Twelve Steps Paperback – September 1, 2011
by Richard Rohr  (Author)
4.7 out of 5 stars    1,830 ratings

 
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Editorial Reviews

Review
Richard Rohr continues to guide us to greater wholeness. The latest example is his new book, Breathing Under Water. A prolific writer, his books have helped countless souls, especially those who struggle with issues of brokenness and seek transformation. -- NCR (read full review: ncronline.org/node/26677)
About the Author

Fr. Richard Rohr is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher bearing witness to the universal awakening within Christian mysticism and the Perennial Tradition. He is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province and founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Fr. Richard's teaching is grounded in the Franciscan alternative orthodoxy—practices of contemplation and lived kenosis (self-emptying), expressing itself in radical compassion, particularly for the socially marginalized. Fr. Richard is the author of numerous books, including Everything Belongs, Adam’s Return, The Naked Now, Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, Immortal Diamond, and Eager to Love: The Alternative Way of Francis of Assisi. Fr. Richard is academic Dean of the Living School for Action and Contemplation. Drawing upon Christianity's place within the Perennial Tradition, the mission of the Living School is to produce compassionate and powerfully learned individuals who will work for positive change in the world based on awareness of our common union with God and all beings. Visit cac.org for more information.
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Product details
Publisher ‏ : ‎ Franciscan Media; 1st edition (September 1, 2011)
Language ‏ : ‎ English
Paperback ‏ : ‎ 176 pages

Customer Reviews: 4.7 out of 5 stars    1,830 ratings

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Richard Rohr
Fr. Richard Rohr is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher bearing witness to the universal awakening within Christian mysticism and the Perennial Tradition. He is a Franciscan priest of the New Mexico Province and founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (www.cac.org) in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where he also serves as Academic Dean of the Living School for Action and Contemplation. Fr. Richard's teaching is grounded in the Franciscan alternative orthodoxy--practices of contemplation and self-emptying, expressing itself in radical compassion, particularly for the socially marginalized.

Fr. Richard is author of numerous books, including Everything Belongs, Adam's Return, The Naked Now, Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, Immortal Diamond, and Eager to Love.

He has been a featured essayist on NPR's "This I Believe," a guest of Mehmet Oz on the Oprah and Friends radio show, and a guest of Oprah Winfrey on Super Soul Sunday. Fr. Richard was one of several spiritual leaders featured in the 2006 documentary film ONE: The Movie and was included in Watkins' Spiritual 100 List for 2013. He has given presentations with spiritual leaders such as Rob Bell, Cynthia Bourgeault, Joan Chittister, Shane Claiborne, James Finley, Laurence Freeman, Thomas Keating, Ronald Rolheiser, Jim Wallis, and the Dalai Lama.

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Top reviews from the United States
Paul Davis
5.0 out of 5 stars This is not a book for alcoholics and drug addicts alone. It is a book for all who are looking for the essence of humanity, what
Reviewed in the United States on January 24, 2015
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Being a physician and currently suffering the pain of a close family member who struggles with lifelong loss of esteem that has presented itself in later years seeking comfort through alcohol, I find this book to be of enormous insight and comfort in my own lostness, woundedness and healing. Having grown up in a hyper religious environment dedicated to validation through performance, I find relief in the simplicity of breathing in, breathing out, even under water, knowing there is a very present God who suffers with me and my family. Richard paints a rich and tangible picture of One who is unconditionally loving in all our brokenness. One who desires nothing more than the simple submission of my soul to sit on his lap and have him wrap arms around me. When I hold my own grandchildren on my lap and do nothing but squeeze them tightly and whisper "I love you no matter what" in their childish ears, I finally understand who I am as a child and what I am here to do for my family and all those with whom I come in contact.

I heartily recommend this book to anyone who has been disappointed by religion, by their false image of God, and by their false image of themselves. It is a book for anyone who is suffering from the addiction to busyness and performance that I've personally endured, to "other pleasing", and of course to those who search for their self meaning in substances that give only temporary relief from the reality of their personal loss of esteem and purpose.

Powerful, personal, genuine in its message of hope! I hope this gentle healer named Richard never puts down his pen!
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191 people found this helpful
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D. Hamer
5.0 out of 5 stars Exposing the emptiness we all share
Reviewed in the United States on February 16, 2017
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Anyone who thinks this is a book about addiction has missed the point -- or just finds it easier to fix other people's addictions than confront their own brokenness. Richard Rohr has brilliantly introduced 12-step spirituality as a lens through which we can identify our "holes in the soul" and move into more authentic relationships with ourselves and with our Lord.
44 people found this helpful
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AZN8TV
5.0 out of 5 stars A great book for 12 steppers, their families and everyone else
Reviewed in the United States on April 8, 2015
Verified Purchase
It's long been my belief that if the rest of the world lived by the 12 Steps of AA and other Anonymous groups, the world would be a much better place.

Father Richard Rohr offers the concept that everyone suffers from some form of addiction...the internet, FB, cell phones, control...the list is endless. In this book, he addresses the larger issues that stem from these addictions.

One of the main caveats of all 12 Step groups is that one must embrace a Higher Power, thus allowing for a true Spiritual transformation. As a lifelong Catholic, I can attest to the truth of this concept. My spirituality and relationship with my Higher Power, whom I call God, has only deepened in my own personal journey in Recovery.

This is the book that everyone should read. It offers many fresh ideas and offers growth in one's own spirituality.

I have taken to using this book with Sponsees who have a strong spiritual bond while early in their recovery from addiction. It certainly helps me to be a better sponsor.
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70 people found this helpful
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Carrie Schultz
5.0 out of 5 stars Brilliant theologian makes Christian spirituality accessible
Reviewed in the United States on October 19, 2016
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This is an amazing book for those on a spiritual path, particularly through the Twelve Steps, who struggle to find the God of Their Understanding"/Higher Power in the religious teachings and experiences they've encountered in life. Rohr helps bring reconciliation by humbly but clearly calling the church and "Christians" out when they have lost sight of or just plain missed the point of what Jesus was trying to teach. A fascinating read that helped me see the beauty of the forest and pity the ugliness of some very visible trees. I think any lapsed Christian who has resentments towards religion would find healing in these pages. And any die hard atheists and agnostics can see the words of Jesus in a way that he can be appreciated as a brilliant philosopher. Jesus without Christianity! Awesome and helpful.
39 people found this helpful
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Pastshelfdate
1.0 out of 5 stars Sentences and Key Words Missing
Reviewed in the United States on October 14, 2018
Verified Purchase
This is a great book, when it's all there. The people who transferred this print book over to a digital edition didn't make any mistakes that I noticed in the first two chapters, but this morning, in Sunday School, I noticed everyone else had a sentence in their print editions that was missing in my Kindle edition. A paragraph or two later, a quote attributed to Jesus of Nazareth is missing its verb: "Jesus had taught two thousand years ago in a most shocking and incomprehensible line: the wicked man no resistance”" (Matthew 5:39).

Rohr, Richard. Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps (p. 19). St. Anthony Messenger Press. Kindle Edition.

I don't know what else is missing. And I only read in this book once each week, during a 1-hour meeting. So I didn't find these defects until I was past Amazpn/Kindle's crappy 7-day return period.

Do not buy this buok from them in an eText edition. It's broken. And chances are, you won't notice until you can't get your money back.
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18 people found this helpful
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Laura Stephenson
4.0 out of 5 stars A Meditation On The 12 Steps
Reviewed in the United States on April 23, 2017
Verified Purchase
Tbis is a beautiful treatise on rhe theology of the 12 Steps from the point of view of a Christian minister. I certainly don't agree with all of his premises, but he points out how the Steps are very similar to the poinrs made in both the Old and New Testaments. He talks about a transformative, compassionate ministry based on compassion and giving to others. This transformative ministry goes beyond piety and religious fervor and points out that compassion for others, not judgemental harangues and finger~pointing, is truly Christian. Suffering brimgs people together to help others because one sufferer truly understands and can help another one. This book can help church members transform themselves and their churches to be more in line with the truly radical idea of loving one another.
9 people found this helpful
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Top reviews from other countries
Mrs. Mac
5.0 out of 5 stars what an amazing book. For a Christian who is familiar with ...
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on October 17, 2016
Verified Purchase
what an amazing book. For a Christian who is familiar with the 12 step programme ,it fills in all the missing pieces in recovery. We are ALL addicts, because we're human and are addicted to our willful way of life, ruled and dominated by our ego and will. This book demonstrates how Jesus came to set us free from ourselves and our ruinous lying and destructive will by offering an alternative way of living.. our addiction to the misery brought about by a false belief system means we live with depression ,anxiety eating disorders, alcoholism etc etc etc and somehow accept it as manageable pain .God isn't interested in managing our pain, he wants to set us free and sent Jesus to show us how. die to self, surrender our will totally to one who loves us beyond imagination and understand that God needs us to love him. craves us , is desperate for us, knows us and our faults and loves us anyway. we come to see that it is our addiction to the lie of being unlovable and un forgiven that keeps us from God,WE are our own worst enemies .We are the problem and therefore cannot fix ourselves, we need a power greater than ourselves.The ego will do anything to keep us from God because God is a threat to it's existence. The ego is the source of all pain, it is death it's how the world works.
16 people found this helpful
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DEBRA JANE WALES
3.0 out of 5 stars I couldn't decide....
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on August 13, 2020
Verified Purchase
This book stumped me....I love the 12 steps and believe its one of the most effective programmes out there that can be applied to any part of life. I'm also spiritual and an Enneagram coach which Rohr also ascribes to. As much as I don't follow any religious man made dogma I was a little shocked at just how much Rohr made every attempt to bad mouth the church. So much so, sometimes I couldn't decide if it was about the 12 steps or taking a stab at Christianity. Shame really....so much for forgiveness and judgment. The bible was right..'Why do you see the speck in your brothers eye when you don't notice the log in your own.'
One person found this helpful
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Yippity
5.0 out of 5 stars Great help to those with Addictions, everyone if we are honest
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on October 13, 2015
Verified Purchase
This is a fabulous book as all of Richard Rohrs book are. If you are struggling with any addiction, and there are so many types not just alcohol, this book is powerful. I think once you have read this book you will want to read more of his books and they will for sure help you on in your journey.
3 people found this helpful
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Polly
5.0 out of 5 stars Spirituality & AA's 12 steps
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on January 6, 2015
Verified Purchase
Great title - from a previously unpublished poem which he quotes at the start of his book - Father Richard Rohr explains how AA's 12 steps is a programme that achieves the impossible. Through following these simple steps -if you're in despair, floundering around - healing & liberation of spirit (breathing under water) will come. An American Franciscan priest who founded the Centre for Action & Contemplation in New Mexico, Richard Rohr comes from the mystical tradition of Christianity - Julian of Norwich, Thomas Merton etc but, like Eckart Tolle, he assimilates many traditions to lead us away from ego & duality to the wholeness of spiritual living & breathing.
9 people found this helpful
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foxy237
5.0 out of 5 stars ... of traditional 12 Step fellowships and a bright and useful companion to anyone who has taken such steps upon ...
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on August 12, 2014
Verified Purchase
A very insightful appreciation of the spiritual principles underpinning the recovery program of traditional 12 Step fellowships and a bright and useful companion to anyone who has taken such steps upon their own road of healing and growth. Especially helpful to others who might seek to understand.
3 people found this helpful
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Jan 29, 2021Fergus rated it really liked it
8 notes & 10 highlights
Don't misunderstand Rohr's shock tactics. Heaven and Hell are not just here and now, for they're eternal. And if you can take the pain of the Fire here, you can take the pain in the beyond. Otherwise, this book is simply Eckhart Tolle garbed in a Franciscan habit.

Richard Rohr is an iconoclast, so be forewarned! A Christian who doesn’t believe in an Afterlife? A Liberationist? Perhaps - it’s hard to nail him down. But one thing is for sure: he lives ENTIRELY in the present moment. Which I try to do as well. And mostly fail.

But Rohr seems to put the word Heaven within inverted commas, as if it’s not a substantial transcendent truth at all. I have great difficulties with that, and it’s as if he’s also denying God’s transcendence. I would really appreciate some ingenuous clarifications from him! He’s an Artful Dodger.

So none of my anticipated superlatives for this one, folks. Remember when Alexander Pope archly said, “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?”

He meant it’s a dangerous thing for the nut cases among us: for it’s like “giving a gun to a melancholic bore” - as Auden admonished, in The Quest. Those living in their sublunary worlds are bound to misconstrue Rohr.

OK, OK, I’ve been one-upped on my earlier high estimate. And yet his clarity within, and love for the absolute present tense of life is redoubtable.

But I’ll add a caveat: “A LOT of knowledge is the Road to Hell.” - my own bow shot at my knowing critics. Because I know it from experience. And give a questioning man like Rohr - or myself in the old days - an inch and he'll take a mile.

Well, has Richard Rohr gone that well-rutted road?

To answer that, think back to T.S. Eliot’s irreverently puckish “Mr. Eliot’s Sunday Morning Service:”

In the beginning was the Word:
Superfetation of “TO ‘EN [Being]”
And at the mensual turn of time
Produced enervate Origen.

Why does he use the name Origen - an early Father of the Church - as being enervate? Simple.

Too much partying can do a guy in! You see, a guy’s nerve endings become dull after too mucha that sorta thing!

So why does he says superfetation? Too easy...

Superfetation produces Giants, and it is no accident that the same Church Council that disciplined the giant, Origen, suppressed the Jewish quasi-Kabbalistic Book of Enoch, in which the ancient and arcane explanation of the the word Giant is freely given.

A Giant is megalomania incarnate.

You know, one would almost think it was Origen’s Gnostic leanings that nearly caused him to be Anathematized. And one bright Christian wag recently gave a one-star rating to Rohr on Audible. His reason?

‘NO HEAVEN + NO HELL = HERESY.’

More exactly, the same heresy that another Church Father, Irenaeus, once mercilessly gutted and hung out to dry (see my review under his name).

Things fall apart: the Centre will not hold -
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

Nuff said?

There’s tons of good reading out there, but may I recommend Irenaeus?

Were he here today, he’d skewer Richard Rohr quite handily and nail him down fair and square against traditional thinking.

I just don’t know how to do that in a palatable enough way for his many followers in our free and easy postmodern age. (less)
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Pete
Mar 08, 2014Pete rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
i'm finally getting around to typing up some of my notes from books i read in 2014 and i'm not sure how i wound up giving this book four stars instead of five. as always disclaimer: what follows may not be of interest if you're not in recovery and at least somewhat positively disposed toward mr christ.

this is basically just a guy putting each of the classic twelve steps in a deep, smart, and soulful christian context, but not the fast-food version of christian context -- jesus is magic, we love magic jesus, that's all we know -- but the gnarly complex christian context, the kind that understands we are all sinners. anyway if you find yourself in the same size and shape of rowboat as me, you will dig this book. even if your boat situation is wildly divergent, let me just share rohr's four assumptions about addiction
1) we are all addicts
2) "stinking thinking"/our way way of doing anything-our own defenses-our patterned ways of thinking is the universal addiction
3) all societies are addicted to themselves
4) some form of alternative consciouness (prayer, meditation, therapy, just not behaving exactly the same way forever) is the only freedom from addiction

if that doesn't zing you a little then this book probably doesn't have a lot to offer you (less)
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Nate
Jan 19, 2012Nate rated it really liked it
Shelves: spirituality, recovery-addiction
This was less of an explanation of the Twelve Steps and more of a commentary on them. Good insights, as always, from Richard Rohr. I especially appreciated his point that all of us are addicted, especially to our own way of thinking. We all are powerless and in need of trusting a higher power. Easy to read and simple message.
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Diane
May 02, 2012Diane rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
found myself quibbling a bit with his spirituality (from a Lutheran point of view), and I am tired of the "Do you worship Jesus or follow him?" dichotomy (to me, it's a both/and). But the 12th chapter, on the 12th step, was worth it all.

from the "Big Book": "so our troubles are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves; and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-well run riot, though he or she does not think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us!"

So, we are called to serve others. If we receive, we also give. (less)
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Edward
Sep 10, 2016Edward rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
"What religion would Jesus belong to?" was the title of a recent NY Times article about contemporary Christianity. You don't generally think of AA as a "religion" and while it's technically not one, Rohr finds that its approach to helping individuals overcome their addictions is a spiritual one with many parallels to the teachings of Christ.

Rohr makes four assumptions about addictions. First, we are all "addicts", being addictive by nature, subject to illusions and entrapments. The Biblical tradition calls them "sins", and in the New Testament they are often objectified as "demons" and are driven out.

Second, the universal addiction is "thinking", that is our habitual way of doing anything, our thought patterns, usually ones we're not even aware of.

Third, all societies agree, to some extent, to be compulsive about the same things and blind to the same problems. He gives as American examples, "our addiction to oil, war, empire, the church's addiction [and some patriotic ones] to its own absolute exceptionalism, the poor person's addiction to victim- hood, the white person's addiction to superiority, the wealthy person's addiction to entitlement."

Fourth, "Some form of alternative consciousness is the only freedom from this self and from cultural ties." Rohr finds that this means some kind of contemplative practice, or in Christian terms, "praying." Otherwise, you never break out of your rutted existence.

What AA does then, Rohr contends, is to take an extreme example of addiction, a dependence on alcohol, and try through its twelve step program to break this slavery. Does it work? He thinks it is a powerful and valid approach. . In breaking out of a terribly addictive habit, the addict must first admit that he is powerless to do it on his own. The ego has to let go and seek help, through others, through a "power greater than ourselves." Among many things that means acceptance of ourselves - the past, our mistakes, imperfections, openness. Our first inclination, though, is to become aggressive, fight, take control, think we can improve ourselves on our own. Here is where he thinks AA differs from much organized religion which promotes individual merit and sacrifice, with the payoff being some kind of "heaven." AA works more on the basis of what has been called "grace," undeserved and gratuitous goodness emerging in the humble individual.

Goodness always comes through failure. The addict has already been in a personal hell, and while it wouldn't be wished on anyone, without it, nothing makes any sense. We have to fall before we can rise. With the fall comes repentance and then, apology, healing, and forgiveness. At this point, the shackles of the past are broken.

There is a paradox in all of this, though, summed up in the aphorism, "No one catches the wild ass by running after him, yet only those who run after the wild ass ever catch him." It's the same paradox as the title of the book, "Breathing Under Water." Going to AA meetings is obviously a matter or trying to improve yourself, all the while realizing that it is impossible to improve yourself. It's a kind of preparation, and whether a change occurs, depends on, again using spiritual language, metaphors for the spirit (Holy), living water, blowing wind, descending flames, alighting doves. As I understand it, the change might not occur at all, or it might occur when least expected. It's an ongoing process, as is life itself. Joys and disappointments for anyone cannot be predicted; all that one can ask for is an openness to a mysterious future.

Back to the beginning which was one of those glib "what would Jesus do?" questions, I think Richard Rohr would agree that it would not be surprising to find Jesus at an AA meeting.
(less)
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Dan Bonner
Aug 16, 2012Dan Bonner rated it it was amazing
I thought this was an excellent book that I will reference over and over again. It forced me to think differently about certain things I spent my life time believing.
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Ellie
Jun 20, 2014Ellie rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: spiritual, 2014indchalnge, non-fiction, addict-mental-illness
Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the 12 Steps, a small and wonderful book by one of my most favorite priests, Father Richard Rohr, is a reminder of, as a friend of mine says, "who we are and what we are"-beings founded in love who struggle to find that love which we are. Fr. Rohr looks at the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous in the light of the Gospel and Catholic faith and find a deeply spiritual path.

I was touched, refreshed, and challenged by this work. I started to list it on my "self-help" shelf but realized this book is anything but. It is how we ground ourselves in the otherness of God and love of others that we discover ourselves. We must work hard to achieve this but in the end, it is only achieved by letting go and an act of God. Luckily, I like paradox. (less)
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Bank
Nov 10, 2011Bank rated it it was ok
All students of the Twelve Steps know that God and spirituality are the foundation of a successful program of recovery . In this book, Fr. Rohr is making the valid case that many people in our society today are much like the unrecovered addict ( sans the drugs ) in their emotional and spiritual makeup. He makes the further point that many adherents of the Christian church ( I believe he is singling out Catholicism ) have not addressed their spiritual issues and emotional makeup with anything approaching the intensity of the 12 Step Program . In fact, I would agree .
The book may further convince believers , but I doubt it will sway any skeptics. There are none so blind as those who will not see. (less)
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Alison 
Mar 22, 2015Alison rated it really liked it
This is a great book to grab when you find yourself in the grips of any sort of desire, addiction, or affliction, be it in the form of substance, compulsive behavior, or addictive thoughts. Those who, however, are still offended or wounded by dualistic religious or biblical experiences, will likely be turned off and stop after the first chapter (or page - each chapter begins with several quotes from scripture that correspond to the step the chapter is about). Those who choose to open themselves to the deeper meaning of these scriptural references and the wisdom with which Father Richard Rohr uses to extrapolate meanings and messages, will find riches here. Rohr calls the 12 Steps "America's most significant contribution to spirituality". I am intrigued by Bill Wilson's relationship and correspondence with Catholic priest Father Ed Dowling at the time of his evolutionary work on the 12 steps and his own personal journey (and the connections between the 12 steps and the 12 Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius). In Breathing Under Water, Fr. Richard is able to go into the depths to draw upon the connectivity between the 12 steps and the archetypal human journey of struggle and growth. I consider this a First Aid kit or "go to" book when I find myself in the grips of my very human self, helping to refresh my perspective and find the inspiration needed to get back on the path of my higher self. (less)
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Drew
Jan 07, 2017Drew rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Excellent book n the twelve steps for alcoholics and non-alcoholics alike. The last two chapters deserve to be re-read and re-read.
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Benjamin Shurance
May 14, 2021Benjamin Shurance rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
I started reading this out of some ministerial curiosity about the 12 Steps. It ended up speaking a lot of words I needed to hear.
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Milt Jacobs
Oct 09, 2019Milt Jacobs rated it it was amazing
Good
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Andrew Doohan
Jan 29, 2013Andrew Doohan rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
In his usual easily accessible style, Richard Rohr provides a study of the underlying spiritual dimension of the Twelve Step program used by organisations such as Alcoholics Anonymous and other similar groups.

The beauty of Rohr's exploration is that his exposition of the spiritual side of the Twelve Steps has much to offer those who wouldn't normally be exposed to the Twelve Steps, those who simply seek to live out their Christian journey with some degree of integrity.

For anyone who fits that category I would highly recommend this little book by Richard Rohr. (less)
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Joe Skillen
Jul 04, 2020Joe Skillen rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Powerful

I will read this book again. As many times as it might take. It puts the whole of life together for me.
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Christy Robeson
Jan 24, 2021Christy Robeson rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: 2021
A book I didn't know I needed to read. (less)
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Patricia
Apr 05, 2021Patricia rated it it was amazing
Breathing Underwater was my choice for a Lenten discipline. Does it count as a discipline if you enjoyed it too much? I love Richard Rohr's down-to-earth explanations of who Christ was, how we are meant to FOLLOW Christ, to imitate him, not so much as cultic worshiping, with all sorts of "this is how you are supposed to do it."

In this book, Richard Rohr looks at the 12 Step Program for alcoholics, and draws lines between the steps and Jesus' example and the way the earliest Christians practiced following Christ.

Reading this book is, for me, like breathing underwater. It lifts burdensome constrictions which keep us from being fully who we are created to be, and urges us on in our discipleship of the living Christ. It revels in the humility of being humanly incapable of being without sin, while choosing to ask God to help us to do his will. I've already loaned this book out, and told the person I will need it back, both so I can loan it out again and so I can remind myself of who we are following, and how we are to follow, by being love, and giving love, including to ourselves. (less)
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Kailee Lelli
Mar 09, 2020Kailee Lelli rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Breathing Underwater had me hooked right away. It goes into detail about how your spiritual mindset will get you places you haven't been, especially with the twelve steps. Richard Rohr goes on about how the twelve steps are used in people's lives, and how whoever is reading this book can use it. It is a lovely book. I recommend this book to anyone (even if they do not need the 12 step study guide) who is looking for a closer relationship to God or want to know about how and why God loves each of us. (less)
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Kathleen
Mar 20, 2018Kathleen rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: faith, nonfiction, catholic, personal-development, recovery
Richard Rohr is definitely not orthodox Catholic, but he sure does have a lot of good things to say. I especially appreciate his views on recovery, as it really is a spiritual process and one that lines up perfectly with the Gospel. I didn't agree with everything in this book and there were a view times where he lost me a bit, but overall I underlined a lot of passages and it had a very positive impact on me. (less)
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Alison
Sep 12, 2021Alison rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
I'm a fan of Rohr and find most of his work inspiring, though some of his books are more approachable than others. Rooting this one in the familiar twelve step program makes it very approachable and creates a highly readable structure. I've always been fascinated with how the process of faith weaves through the 12 steps and have often contemplated its alignment with the gospel, so having Rohr put it all together into a package was a great experience that affirmed many of my existing thoughts but also challenged me to look inward in ways I hadn't expected. (less)
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Sarah
Nov 27, 2020Sarah rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
I already need to go back and re-read it! Rohr describes the 12 Steps as a technology for the sort of deep transformational work described by theologians from many world religions, although his primary focus is the Christian scriptures. Since he is a Franciscan, his take is really groovy and inclusive, though, so it is inspiring even of you're not a Christian. (less)
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Jim Keating
Apr 12, 2021Jim Keating rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Richard Rohr is brilliant, deep, a real authority on the Twelve Steps. Being new to the 12 Step world, particularly examining the challenging aspects of the spirituality undergirding it, and the wisdom in the simplicity of each step, has left me wanting more...so I'll read it again. A good friend has read it 5 times so I've got some catching up to do. It's a small book but not a quick read. Soak up every sentence and let it challenge you. (less)
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Mary Lynn Elker
Nov 20, 2020Mary Lynn Elker rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Very thought provoking. Will read again.
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Chris
Jul 20, 2020Chris rated it really liked it
Let's just start with my bias. I love Richie Rohr!

A highlight from this book for me was on the topic of self acceptance and surrender. I have often struggled with my own ability to communicate God's unconditional love and grace to others while holding to a different standard for myself (I was raised very much as a performance-based legalistic kind of Christian). So reading this book led me to a new kind of "conversion" experience as my eyes were opened a bit to how loving and trustworthy God is to me.

Another great section for me was about prayer. It's not about getting God to do stuff for me but "opting in" to the divine...participating in what God is up to.

Although his writing leans progressive and makes some conservative Christians nervous, I think it goes along way to helping people of faith realize some of the ways in which we idealize the Christian life but often fail to actually love God and others well.

Thanks for helping me learn to breathe some fresh air, Richie! (less)
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Jackie St Hilaire
Nov 27, 2016Jackie St Hilaire rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
One step at a time.

A few weeks ago I visited a man who has been following the 12 step program for over 20 years. On one of my visits I asked if we could go through the steps together and he picked up his book and began to read the steps one by one, flipping over the pages so fast that I didn't have a chance to dialogue with him. He read them, put the book down and that was it. This is a very depressed individual and full of guilt and shame, I was hoping to bring about a more shameless and guiltless approach.

During this time, I came across Richard Rohr's book "Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps and this is exactly what I needed to pursue my conversation with the man.

In visiting I always try to bring my own experience into the conversation and that is that most of us have some form of addiction going on and we are struggling to free ourselves from the guilt that has caused relationships to break down etc.

Richard Rohr, has given us direction on how to proceed, how to leave behind our negative, false self and move beyond and start living again.

It's not "been there done that", it's there 365 days a year and the motto "one day at a time" sometimes brings you to "one minute at a time".

For many of us it's why should I even get out of bed in the morning? We all need a purpose for living, meaning in our life, someone to care for and sometimes someone to care for us. It's a balancing act and it's not easy, many times we take one step forward and two steps backwards but the most important thing is not to give up,even if we are walking on our tiptoes. (less)
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ms.petra
Jan 07, 2019ms.petra rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
This book was the focus a small book club I was invited to join last fall. We meet once a week schedules and health permitting. We read out loud and discuss our thoughts and experiences honestly and profoundly. It is what I dreamed a book club would be and this book has helped me tremendously not only in my sobriety journey, but more importantly my spiritual journey. Fr. Rohr reminds us what Jesus taught. It is profoundly simple even though the big business of religion has made it otherwise. I highly recommend the accompanying workbook/journal to make the most of this powerful work. (less)
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Jim
Feb 29, 2012Jim rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: spirituality-religion, social-issues, jims-reviews, favorites
This was an amazing book - a great way to look at Christian spirituality and the 12 steps. It's an amazing paradigm shift from how we look at our spiritual lives today. The way Rohr delves into the 12 steps leaves the reader with a lasting impression. I borrowed this book from a priest friend on Kindle - but I think I'm going to have to purchase a physical copy for myself to re-read it. Highly recommended. (less)
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[eBook] 물 밑에서 숨 쉬기 
리처드 로어 (지은이),이현주 (옮긴이)한국기독교연구소2020-02-03 
원제 : Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps


책소개

저자는 먼저 우리 모두가 무엇에 중독되어 있는지를 밝힌다. 신자유주의의 치열한 경쟁과 부실한 종교가 초래한 “육신의 중독과 영혼 없는 사회” 속에서 알코올 중독자들처럼 난파당한 사람들만이 아니라, 우리 모두가 석유와 전쟁, 제국주의, 온갖 사회적 통념, 교회의 문화에 중독되어 있고, 무엇보다 우리 자신이 남과 비교하고 판단하고 힘을 행사하려는 에고중심적이며 이분법적인 사고방식에 중독되어 있다는 지적이다.

이처럼 우리 자신이 미처 의식하지도 못한 채 물에 빠져 익사당하는 인간의 조건과 문화 속에서 저자는 우리가 어떻게 물 밑에서 숨 쉬면서 견딜 수 있는지, 어떻게 구출될 수 있는지를 가르쳐준다. 이 책은 번뇌의 근원인 거짓 자아를 깨트리고 우주의 신비와 생명의 환희 속에 뛰어들 큰 꿈을 불러일으켜 준다. 날이 갈수록 더욱 척박해지는 현실에서 어떻게 자기를 살펴서 내적인 자유를 찾고 사회변혁을 위해 스스로 평화가 될 수 있는지를 일깨운다.

목차

머리말 __ 7
1장 힘없음 __ 25
2장 간절한 바람 __ 33
3장 달콤한 굴복 __ 45
4장 좋은 등불 __ 59
5장 자백하기와 용서받기 __ 67
6장 닭과 달걀, 누가 먼저인가? __ 81
7장 우리가 왜 구해야 하는가? __ 89
8장 빚 갚기 __ 99
9장 세련된 방식의 보상(報償) __ 109
10장 이것은 과잉 아닌가? __ 117
11장 새 마음, 새 사람 __ 129
12장 돌아온 것은 마땅히 돌려보내고 __ 143
후기 고통 받는 하느님만이 구원하실 수 있다 __ 159
참고문헌 __ 171
Study Guide __ 173


책속에서

알코올 중독자들의 무능함은 우리가 그것을 눈으로 쉽게 볼 수 있을 뿐이다. 나머지 우리들은 그것을 여러 다른 모양으로 위장하고 자기의 교묘하게 감춰둔 중독과 집착, 특히 자기의 사고방식(에고 중심적인 主體-客體라는 이분법적 사고방식 ? 역자주)에 대한 집착을 과잉보상하고 있는 것이다.(15쪽)

진실은 우리가 우리 자신의 가장 고약한 원수이고, 구원이란 근본적으로 자기 자신한테서 해방되는 것이다. 사람들은 자기 잘못을 인정하고 고치려 하기보다는 차라리 죽으려 하는 것처럼 보인다.(15-16쪽)

그리스도인들은 보통 진지하고 선의를 지닌 사람들이다. 에고, 통제, 권력, 돈, 쾌락 그리고 안전이라는 진짜 문제를 만나기 전까지는 그렇다. 다른 모든 사람들과 마찬가지로 그들은 우아하게 살려고 한다. 그동안 우리는 그들에게 자아의 깊은 변화 없는 가짜 복음을, 패스트푸드 종교를 제공하였다.(19쪽)

그래서 나는 네 가지 가설 아래 이 책을 쓴다.
우리 모두 중독자다. 인간 존재는 그 본성이 중독자다. 중독은 성경이 전통적으로 “죄”라 부르고 중세기 그리스도인들이 “정욕” 또는 “집착”이라고 부른 것을 정직하게 서술한 현대적 명칭이다. 우리가 이 착각과 올가미를 부수고 나오려면 진지한 대책 또는 수련이 필요하다는 것을 그들은 알았다. 실제로 신약성경은 그것을 “축귀(逐鬼)”라고 지칭하였다. 자기네가 비(非)이성적인 악 또는 “악마들”을 상대하고 있다고 생각했던 것이다.(21쪽)

밝은 깨달음은 많은 종교가 ‘믿음’이라고 가르치는 닫혀 있는 머리, 죽어 있는 가슴, 육체부정에 정반대다. 당신도 분명 이런 말을 들었을 것이다. “지옥을 겁내는 자들에 의해 종교가 살고, 지옥을 통과한 이들에 의해 영성이 산다.”
오늘날 세계에 무신론이 존재하는 가장 큰 이유는 아마도 대부분 종교들의 무해무독한 믿음체계 때문이지 싶다. 믿음체계는 신자가 아닌 사람들보다 더욱 강하고 자상하고 창조적인 사람들을 별로 만들어내지 못했으며, 흔히 훨씬 더 나쁜 사람들을 만들어냈기 때문이다.(34-35쪽)

솔직히 말해서 사람의 머리, 가슴, 몸을 열고 습관적 방어기제와 잘못된 행복 프로그램 그리고 눈앞의 분명한 현실을 외면하는 여러 형태의 저항들을 제거하는 일은 생명을 담보로 할 만큼 위험한 대수술이다. 하지만 그게 옹근 회심(回心)의 살과 뼈다.
(35쪽)

참 영성은 두 가지 큰 일을 동시에 이룬다. 하나는 하느님을 절대 자유로우신 분으로, 인간들이 무슨 짓을 해도 거기에 전혀 구애되지 않는 분으로 모시는 것이다. 다른 하나는 우리를 철저하게 자유로운 존재로, 어떤 환경에서도, 인간의 법과 죄와 한계와 실패 따위에도 강제되거나 억압당하지 않는 존재로 거듭나게 하는 것이다. “그리스도께서 우리를 해방시켜주셔서 우리는 자유의 몸이 되었습니다. 그러니 마음을 굳게 먹고 다시는 종의 멍에를 메지 마십시오”(갈라디아 5:1). 참 종교는 인간을 위하여 하느님을 자유롭게 해드리고, 하느님을 위하여 인간을 자유롭게 해준다.(150쪽)  접기


저자 및 역자소개
리처드 로어 (Richard Rohr) (지은이) 

프란치스코회 신부로서 1986년에 “행동과 관상 센터”를 설립했으며, 초창기에는 몇 년 동안 미국과 독일에서 애니어그램을 가르치는 한편, 오랜 영적 지도와 상담, 특히 카톨릭 신부들을 위한 피정을 17년 넘게 인도하고, 앨버커키 교도소 지도신부로 14년 넘게 사목한 경험을 바탕으로 『불멸의 다이아몬드』, 『물밑에서 숨쉬기』, 『위쪽으로 떨어지다』 등 20여 권의 주옥같은 책을 발표하여, 많은 독자들에게 회심을 경험하도록 만들고 있다. 그의 삶과 글 속에는 “아름다움이 구원한다”는 동방교회 신학방법론과 성인 프란체스코의 적극적 평화주의가 배어 있어서, 세상과 교회 안에서 상처받은 모든 영혼들을 치유하며 온전한 성숙함으로 안내하기 때문이다. 그는 짐 월리스, 토머스 키팅, 랍 벨 등과 함께 미국의 대표적인 영적 지도자 가운데 한 사람이다. 그리스도교는 예수의 영향보다 플라톤의 영향을 더 많이 받아서 화육(성육신) 종교가 탈육신 종교로 둔갑했다고 보는 그는 토머스 머튼을 이어 관상 전통을 되살려내는 과업에 헌신했으며, 짐 월리스, 토머스 키팅, 랍 벨 등과 함께 미국의 대표적인 영적 지도자 가운데 한 사람으로 인정받고 있다. 접기
최근작 : <오직 사랑으로>,<보편적 그리스도>,<성경의 숨겨진 지혜들> … 총 224종 (모두보기)

==
이현주 (옮긴이) 

관옥觀玉이라고도 부르며, ‘이 아무개’ 혹은 같은 뜻의 한자 ‘무무无無’라는 필명을 쓰고 있다. 1944년 충주에서 태어나 감리교신학대학교를 졸업했다. 목사이자 동화작가이자 번역가이며, 교회와 대학 등에서 말씀도 나눈다. 동서양의 고전을 넘나드는 글들을 쓰고 있으며, 무위당无爲堂 장일순 선생과 함께 『노자 이야기』를 펴냈다. 옮긴 책으로 『지금 이 순간이 나의 집입니다』, 『너는 이미 기적이다』, 『틱낫한 기도의 힘』, 『그리스도의 계시들』 등이 있다.
최근작 : <관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기>,<관옥 이현주의 신약 읽기 (양장)>,<부모 되기, 사람 되기> … 총 269종 (모두보기)
출판사 제공 책소개
프란체스코의 평화주의 전통에서 교육을 받고 특히 카를 융의 분석심리학을 공부하여 40년 넘게 영적 지도와 상담을 해온 저자는 이 책에서 예수의 복음을 통한 치유, 자아의 변화, 내적 자유에 이르는 길을 단계별로 가르쳐준다. 예수의 복음이 어떻게 우리의 고통스러운 번뇌의 화살을 뽑아낼 깨달음에 이르게 하는지를 보여준다. 과거의 악몽과 현재의 불안, 불확실한 미래에 대한 끈질긴 염려에서 단지 벗어나는 길만이 아니라, 온전한 자유와 충만한 기쁨에 이르는 길을 “열두 단계”에 따라 보여주며, 장애물과 극복 방법을 제시한다. 저자는 먼저 우리 모두가 무엇에 중독되어 있는지를 밝힌다. 신자유주의의 치열한 경쟁과 부실한 종교가 초래한 “육신의 중독과 영혼 없는 사회” 속에서 알코올 중독자들처럼 난파당한 사람들만이 아니라, 우리 모두가 석유와 전쟁, 제국주의, 온갖 사회적 통념, 교회의 문화에 중독되어 있고, 무엇보다 우리 자신이 남과 비교하고 판단하고 힘을 행사하려는 에고중심적이며 이분법적인 사고방식에 중독되어 있다는 지적이다. 이처럼 우리 자신이 미처 의식하지도 못한 채 물에 빠져 익사당하는 인간의 조건과 문화 속에서 저자는 우리가 어떻게 물 밑에서 숨 쉬면서 견딜 수 있는지, 어떻게 구출될 수 있는지를 가르쳐준다. 이 책은 번뇌의 근원인 거짓 자아를 깨트리고 우주의 신비와 생명의 환희 속에 뛰어들 큰 꿈을 불러일으켜 준다. 날이 갈수록 더욱 척박해지는 현실에서 어떻게 자기를 살펴서 내적인 자유를 찾고 사회변혁을 위해 스스로 평화가 될 수 있는지를 일깨운다.
===

The Emergence of Buddhist American Literature John Whalen-Bridge, Gary Storhoff

Amazon.com: The Emergence of Buddhist American Literature (SUNY series in Buddhism and American Culture): 9781438426532: John Whalen-Bridge, Gary Storhoff: Books



The Emergence of Buddhist American Literature (SUNY series in Buddhism and American Culture)
by John Whalen-Bridge (Editor), Gary Storhoff (Editor)
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ISBN-13: 978-1438426532
ISBN-10: 1438426534Why is ISBN important?


Editorial Reviews

Review
“This collection offers an excellent and newly renovated place from which to continue the study of Buddhism in American literature. It will become an essential critical volume.” ― Religion and the Arts

“…signals a significant turn in critical understanding of Buddhism in U.S. literature―one whose methodology emphasizes the groundlessness shared by Buddhism and contemporary literature studies while also grounding itself, necessarily so, in the ways in which Buddhism is shaped by the particularities of history.” ― Beat Studies

“…a thought-provoking analysis of the myriad ways American literature has contributed to our Buddhist practice and vice versa.” ― Tricycle

“…a groundbreaking anthology of critical writings making vital new connections between buddhadharma and American literature…” ― Buddhadharma: The Practitioner’s Quarterly

“This book in your hands is a trove of the best we can do to put the Dharma into words.” ― from the Foreword by Maxine Hong Kingston
From the Back Cover
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The encounter between Buddhism and American literature has been a powerful one for both parties. While Buddhism fueled the Beat movement's resounding critique of the United States as a spiritually dead society, Beat writers and others have shaped how Buddhism has been presented to and perceived by a North American audience. Contributors to this volume explore how Asian influences have been adapted to American desires in literary works and at Buddhist poetics, or how Buddhist practices emerge in literary works. Starting with early aesthetic theories of Ernest Fenollosa, made famous but also distorted by Ezra Pound, the book moves on to the countercultural voices associated with the Beat movement and its friends and heirs such as Ginsberg, Kerouac, Snyder, Giorno, Waldman, and Whalen. The volume also considers the work of contemporary American writers of color influenced by Buddhism, such as Maxine Hong Kingston, Charles Johnson, and Lan Cao. An interview with Kingston is included.

"This book in your hands is a trove of the best we can do putting the Dharma into words." -- from the Foreword by Maxine Hong Kingston

About the Author


John Whalen-Bridge is Associate Professor of English at the National University of Singapore. He is the coeditor (with Sor-hoon Tan) of Democracy as Culture: Deweyan Pragmatism in a Globalizing World, also published by SUNY Press, and the author of Political Fiction and the American Self.

Gary Storhoff is Associate Professor of English at the University of Connecticut at Stamford and the author of Understanding Charles Johnson.
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Product details

Publisher ‏ : ‎ SUNY Press (June 24, 2009)