Showing posts with label science spirituality. Show all posts
Showing posts with label science spirituality. Show all posts

2023/01/04

Lothar Schafer 'The Infinite Potential of Quantum Physics' Interview by ...





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Lothar Schafer 'The Infinite Potential of Quantum Physics' Interview by Iain McNay

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Lothar Schafer 'The Infinite Potential of Quantum Physics' Interview by Iain McNay
Author of 'Infinite Potential' and 'In Search of Divine Reality' talks about 'What Quantum Physics reveals about how we should live our lives.' Retired Professor of chemistry he spent a large part of his life in a laboratory looking at quantum-chemical computations and electron diffraction studies of molecular structures. He says, "You need to first understand the order of the universe and your place in it - you can't find happiness in your personal life if you are not living in harmony with the universe. The constituents of real things are found not to be real - these findings show that the quantum phenomena make it possible to establish a new covenant between the human mind and the mind-like background of the universe - one that provides a home again to the homeless and meaning to seemingly pointless life. The universe must be assumed to have a moral as well as a physical order, and facts and values derive again from a single source."

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Infinite Potential: What Quantum Physics Reveals About How We Should Live Hardcover – 2 April 2013
by Lothar Schafer (Author)
4.6 out of 5 stars 117 ratings






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A hopeful and controversial view of the universe and ourselves based on the principles of quantum physics, offering a way of making our lives and the world better, with a foreword by Deepak Chopra

In Infinite Potential, physical chemist Lothar Schäfer presents a stunning view of the universe as interconnected, nonmaterial, composed of a field of infinite potential, and conscious. With his own research as well as that of some of the most distinguished scientists of our time, Schäfer moves us from a reality of Darwinian competition to cooperation, a meaningless universe to a meaningful one, and a disconnected, isolated existence to an interconnected one. In so doing, he shows us that our potential is infinite and calls us to live in accordance with the order of the universe, creating a society based on the cosmic principle of connection, emphasizing cooperation and community.
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0307985954
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Publisher ‏ : ‎ Crown Publishing Group, Division of Random House Inc (2 April 2013)
Language ‏ : ‎ English
Hardcover ‏ : ‎ 288 pages
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 0307985954
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0307985958
Dimensions ‏ : ‎ 16.1 x 2.82 x 24.23 cmBest Sellers Rank: 721,491 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)1,004 in Physics Textbooks
7,678 in Physics (Books)
8,910 in Psychology TextbooksCustomer Reviews:
4.6 out of 5 stars 117 ratings






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Chrys McGlynn

5.0 out of 5 stars Received quicklyReviewed in Australia 🇦🇺 on 13 December 2022
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Good book, well priced.



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Jake
4.0 out of 5 stars Great book and a life changing philosophyReviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 3 February 2020
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This book certainly serves as your end to end explanation of how the world works, and how it all ties together, particularly if you're a curious inquisitive minded individual who's keen on not leaving any stone uncovered on the backend workings of the universe and how quantum physics affects our lives. To adapt this paradigm is really the first step into becoming a new type of human species.

However I was a bit disappointed that Lothar didn't provide more practical methods on how to make the concepts outlined in the book really work for us, from the title I was hoping this book to be more action focused rather than theory and leaving things in the maybe zone.
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Marksteiner
5.0 out of 5 stars A great book!Reviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 16 January 2016
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Clearly written, with straightforward logic the book is a milestone in our endeavour to transcend the metaphysics of materialism. By explaining his work with 'quantum chemistry' Lothar Schäfer makes it clear beyond any doubt that there is consciuosness even in the smallest particles - atoms and molecules. A great book!

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Harold Webster
4.0 out of 5 stars A good explanation of wave theory but I felt it fell ...Reviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 25 September 2015
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A good explanation of wave theory but I felt it fell short of the mark as regards direction. I thought that It could have done more to involve the Higgs fields potential in regard to wave and particle relationship and the ability to jump from non mass to mass. From thought to materiality, in effect Creation. The book is well written and the author has managed to keep it at a level that is understandable to the average reader.

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JubbaDaHutt
5.0 out of 5 stars AmazingReviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 1 March 2019
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Really good book so far !
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5.0 out of 5 stars Best book I've read in yearsReviewed in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 on 4 August 2020
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Absolutely brilliant.
A must read.
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Infinite Potential: What Quantum Physics Reveals About How We Should Live

Lothar Schäfer

3.98
138 ratings17 reviews

A hopeful and controversial view of the universe and ourselves based on the principles of quantum physics, offering a way of making our lives and the world better, with a foreword by Deepak Chopra

In Infinite Potential, physical chemist Lothar Schäfer presents a stunning view of the universe as interconnected, nonmaterial, composed of a field of infinite potential, and conscious. With his own research as well as that of some of the most distinguished scientists of our time, Schäfer moves us from a reality of Darwinian competition to cooperation, a meaningless universe to a meaningful one, and a disconnected, isolated existence to an interconnected one. In so doing, he shows us that our potential is infinite and calls us to live in accordance with the order of the universe, creating a society based on the cosmic principle of connection, emphasizing cooperation and community.

GenresScienceNonfictionPhilosophyQuantum MechanicsSelf Help



336 pages, ebook

First published January 1, 2013
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Shwan Raoof
36 reviews

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March 26, 2021
Not so informative; lacks coherence. The central idea is clear that quantum physics' "Schrodinger's" wave function is just a mathematical expression that is void of energy or space (transempirical). But Shafer doesn't in any way explain what other alternative ideas might there be to interpret this phenomenon. And he doesn't also explain why that realm of the "wave function" can resemble the thoughts in our minds, except for the fact that they exist as potentiality. Although I think that thoughts are not potential states since they at least have electrical activity associated with them in the brain even though they're not yet expressed in the outer world as deeds. Many questions pop into mind while reading this book and no answers can be found between the pages.
The book could have been more useful if more theories were introduced or more details were taken into consideration in explaining the realm of potentiality or quantum jumps.
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Tim Laukka
18 reviews

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January 26, 2015
I really enjoyed Lothar's discussion of our potential and how it relates to quantum physics. I also found interesting his thoughts on how the paradigm of Darwinism has impacted our modern society. I am not sure I fully agree with all that he says in that regard, but I do agree that it has had a significant influence on how society thinks about the issues it faces.
While this book is not a faith based book, I also found this book provides some interesting insights into quantum physics application to our spiritual lives and to God. As a member of the Mormon faith I found many of the ideas and concepts presented in this book align with my understanding of God and the universe. It is always gratifying to find elements of your beliefs in unexpected and surprising domains.
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Elizabeth Rains
1 book · 3 followers

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December 29, 2020
I read a lot of books about physics, even though I'm not a physicist or any kind of scientist. I believe such books open the mind, and this one shows that the mind, like quantum physics (actually part of quantum physics), can be open to anything possible. In a nutshell, that's what Schafer says: anything possible will happen, and the universe is programmed to make it happen right. So don't fear or fret, just explore the potentialities. They are bound to ultimately be good.
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Tom Cornille
29 reviews · 1 follower

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December 27, 2018
A very good read :) A big, fat fascinating and scientifically based finger pointing at the same moon all the so-called spiritual ones have been pointing at for thousands of years. Or why science is playing catch-up... and having a hard time admitting it despite clear numbers and logic. There may not be a lot to 'know' but there's sure a lot to suspect, with giant implications for all of us.

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Yuezhong Zheng
79 reviews · 22 followers

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March 17, 2015
Not so informative and useful as I expected. I believe there are some other books out there about the connection of quantum physics and human mind that are more fun and useful.

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Madeline
10 reviews

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April 3, 2021
The author expertly explains the quantum world for the lay person and illustrates how quantum science and spirituality are two parallel and consistent ways of understanding the nature of reality. I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to better understand these seemingly incomprehensible and intriguing topics. The author’s ideas are an important contribution to help us fulfill our potential and live in accordance with the order of this mysterious and meaningful universe.
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Dena Weigel Bell
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December 31, 2017
Great book! A bit difficult to read at times for non-scientists, but still got a lot out of the information.

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Alan Fuller
6 books · 26 followers

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February 29, 2016
"...the quantum phenomena have taught me that atheism is a mistake because it isn’t in agreement with the nature of the world."

"Because of their recent discovery the messages of the new physics have never really been accepted in the public domain."

"Darwin’s biology is, like Newton’s physics, a surface science. It describes the visible phenomena on the surface of reality quite well, but it isn’t able to get to the roots of things."

It is quotes like these that make Schafer's book worth reading. They are supported by the evidence.
When I read Schafer's first book "In Search of Divine Reality," I was looking for philosophical discussions based on quantum physics. He provides plenty of that so I rated the book highly. From those valid discussions he develops ideas of monism, cosmic consciousness, infinite mind and a holistic "One." All is One and One is all. Its a combination of ancient pagan and modern new age beliefs.

If a cosmic consciousness created the universe, then why isn't it also a personal being? Can it be less than, or merely equal to its creation? Does it need us to be able to think?

The book is thought provoking, but you could probably find it on one of Oprah's bookshelves.


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LemontreeLime
3,133 reviews · 17 followers

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October 22, 2013
now I'm an open minded lady, i'll read just about anything. And I picked this up on a whim. Chopra's intro was especially seductive. And Schafer manages to explain some concepts about the movements of electrons that really worked for me, i finally understood a part of high school chemistry that has always eluded me. But towards the end of the book he hammers on about what he refers to as 'Darwinism' and 'Darwinists' as being the worst of the lot in humanity, and all i could picture in my mind was sweet Charles Darwin with his white beard studying worms at the end of his life. I've read so many bios of Darwin, and i suspect that there never was a kinder gentler more interesting man. I could understand what Schafer meant, but I wish he had found a different term. He did make some caveats several times that what HE believes Darwin's 'survival of the fittest' theories have evolved into was not what Darwin intended, and I wish he had gone one step further and taken Darwin right out of the argument. So, interesting, but ended up leaving me dissatisfied by heavy handedness towards the end.
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Maria E
79 reviews · 2 followers

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July 30, 2013
I had a biology professor in college who said that someday science and religion would agree because both in their honest forms were in pursuit of truth.
Lothar Schafer shows how the Darwinian view of man leads human behaviour to atheism, greed and many of the ills people complain about. He talks of how quantum physics shows the world to be connected and promotes cooperation over competition. He states that the ingrained philosophy of man as a disconnected animal, fighting for survival is in direct contrast to the quantum world. If one believes in the interconnectivity of the quantum world then one looks for the power of the universe and tries to align with it. He does not claim any organized religion but it's amazing how many of the world religions talk about bringing one's actions and will into alignment with the divine.

How does your life change if you stop thinking of yourself as a single organism awash in a sea of detritus and think of yourself as a small part of a greater whole which has a purpose of improving?
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Infinite Potential: The Life and Times of David Bohm: Peat, F David: 9780201328202: Amazon.com: Books

Infinite Potential: The Life and Times of David Bohm: Peat, F David: 9780201328202: Amazon.com: Books


https://archive.org/details/infinitepotentia0000peat

"Dismissed by establishment scientists as a maverick or mystical rebel, American physicist David Bohm (1917-1992) sought a holistic physics, a unified vision of matter and mind, brain and consciousness. His search for an alternative quantum theory led him to formulate a cosmology depicting a universe of infinite levels, each qualitatively different yet part of an interconnected whole. In this brilliant intellectual biography, science writer Peat, Bohm's longtime friend and colleague, portrays an intensely cerebral man gripped by periods of crippling depression, who had an acute need of a guru or father figure, whether mentor J. Robert Oppenheimer or Indian philosopher/ teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti, and who ultimately felt betrayed by each of them."--Publisher description

Includes bibliographical references and index

Childhood : from fragmentation to flow -- From Penn State to Caltech -- A vision of light -- From Niels Bohr to Karl Marx -- Princeton -- Un-American activities -- Hidden variables -- Brazil : into exile -- Causality and chance -- Israel : the world falls apart -- Bristol : encounters with famous men -- Birkbeck : thought and what may lie beyond -- Language and perception -- The implicate order -- Dialogue and disorder -- The edge of something unknown








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Infinite Potential: The Life and Times of David Bohm Paperback – November 13, 1997
by F David Peat (Author)
4.6 out of 5 stars 58 ratings
4.2 on Goodreads
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Infinite Potential is the first biography of David Bohm—brilliant physicist, explorer of consciousness, student of Oppenheimer, friend to Einstein, and enemy of the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Although he battled bouts of crippling depression, Bohm proved to be one of the twentieth century's most original thinkers, influencing the fields of physics, philosophy, psychology, language, and education. In this compelling narrative, David Peat explains Bohm's life and landmark scientific work, including his famous ”hidden variables” causal interpretation of quantum mechanics, which created a storm of controversy, yet may well be the only theory that describes the true nature of reality.
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About the Author
F. David Peat, renowned author of many general books on science—including, with David Bohm, Science, Order & Creativity—was a friend and colleague of David Bohm for more than twenty years.


Product details
Publisher ‏ : ‎ Basic Books; First Thus edition (November 13, 1997)
Language ‏ : ‎ English
Paperback ‏ : ‎ 357 pages
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 0201328208
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0201328202
Item Weight ‏ : ‎ 1.15 pounds
Dimensions ‏ : ‎ 9.2 x 6.09 x 1.01 inchesBest Sellers Rank: #1,099,882 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)#1,061 in Quantum Theory (Books)
#2,122 in Scientist Biographies
#15,315 in Historical Biographies (Books)Customer Reviews:
4.6 out of 5 stars 58 ratings




F. David Peat



Welcome to my Amazon page. One of the most enjoyable tasks of my life has been writing books. Or rather lying in bed dreaming about what I want to write tomorrow then jumping out of bed in the morning and rushing to my computer to get it all down before I forget!

My latest book is "Synchronicity: The Marriage of Matter and Psyche". This is an original exploration and not a revision of my earlier "Synchronicity: The Bridge between Matter and Mind". In my new book I explore Carl Jung’s notion of the life-transforming nature of synchronicities. Synchronicities open the floodgates of the deeper levels of consciousness and matter, which, for a creative instant, sweep over the mind and heal the division between the internal and external. Since writing that first book a great deal more has come to light, in particular about the role the theoretical physicist Wolfgang Pauli had in encouraging Carl Jung’s investigation of the phenomenon of “meaningful coincidence.” Much of this collaboration between the physicist and the depth psychologist is revealed in the fascinating correspondence between Jung and Pauli that has recently been published. My new book explores these discoveries and ends with a speculative and provocative chapter on the possible source of true synchronicities.

I was born and grew up in Liverpool. My father was an electrician and when his apprentice announced that he wanted to quit to go to Germany with his band my father told him, "George Harrison, one day you'll come crawling on your hands and knees to get your job back." I was also a little annoyed when my closest friend, Dot, told me she was seeing a really fascinating student at art college—John Lennon! It was that era!

After university I moved to Canada to carry out research in theoretical physics at the National Research Council of Canada. Then, while on a sabbatical with Roger Penrose, I met the physicist David Bohm and began a friendship that lasted until his death. Indeed, we were working together on a second book when he died.

I had also been involved in documentaries for the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) and was responsible for a twenty one-hour series on the development of physics in the 20th century. After leaving the NRC I turned to writing both books and plays for radio and the stage. I also made contact with Native American groups which ended up as a circle of Native Elders and Western Scientists sponsored by the Fetzer Institute. Some these experiences found themselves in Blackfoot Physics.

From Ottawa we moved briefly, and totally by chance, to the medieval hilltop village of Pari in Tuscany, and from there moved to London so I could do research for and write Infinite Potential: The Life and Times of David Bohm. In London I made contact with the artists Anish Kapoor and Antony Gormley and ended up organizing a weekend where artists and scientists could meet and talk informally.

From London I moved back to Pari and in 2000 opened the Pari Center for New Learning in order to run courses and conferences and have writers and artists come to visit for a month or so. Pari has also been an ideal place in which to reflect and write and to meet new people. It has been a time when I developed my idea of Gentle Action which can be found at www.gentleaction.org and well as in my book "Gentle Action: Bringing creative change to a turbulent world".

A recent book of mine is "A Flickering Reality: Cinema and the Nature of Reality". This shows how everything from Freud and Jung, quantum theory and chaos theory, the neurosciences and postmodernism have changed the way we look at ourselves and the world, and the most direct way to experience this is via films. I also have a blog on this topic at http://aflickeringreality.blogspot.com. And what a pleasure it was to see it in print. It was such a joy to write "A Flickering Reality" because it combined my interests in the changing nature of reality along with the chance to revisit so many films I had enjoyed in the past along with some very new ones.

And if you'd like to learn more then why not buy my biography, "Pathways of Chance" or look at my websites www.fdavidpeat.com or www.paricenter.com.


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Frances Haas

5.0 out of 5 stars "A stellar autobiographyReviewed in the United States on October 13, 2019
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I've always been curious about physics and the people who practice it. David Bohm was a key player within the physics community. His mother was or became insane but was able to be around for her two sons, in an unproductive way. There were no anti-depressants and her condition worsened. Bohm was more deeply effected by his mother than he allowed himself to know. He knew many other physicists, such as Oppenheimer. Partly due to his relationship with him, but also the Communist scare after W.W.II, the U.S. Government would not allow Bohm to work in the U.S., so "Bohm went to South America. If you like to read about the theories behind psychics, this is a book for you. It also goes into Bohm's long, and eventually troubled, relationship with Krishamurti, an Indian sage. Their talks can be seen on UTube. I recommend reading this book about a brilliant, flawed, man. and viewing those talks;, which delve into the nature of mysticism.

7 people found this helpful


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R. A POKATILOFF

5.0 out of 5 stars get this book!Reviewed in the United States on May 16, 2015
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I love this book! Starting on page 169 we read about hidden variables. Example, two particles are separated but they don't interact in the classical physics way. There are hidden variables. The same thing happens when I use my computer flight simulator! I see two planes moving on the taxiway. One of them is stopping by an intersection, while the other one keeps on going thru the intersection. The computer is controlling the aircrafts--hidden variables? There is much debate, and none of it is easy to understand. Quantum mechanics is filled with confusion because the old way physics is predictable, but quantum is like rolling the dice. The facts indicate that our universe may be computer controlled. Bohm, Bell, and the others had no knowledge of our current computers and the advanced video cards. There is no doubt that we will be capable of building computers that can simulate a universe in the distant future.

4 people found this helpful


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sherab

5.0 out of 5 stars fine biography of a great man.Reviewed in the United States on November 1, 2016
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Bohm was not just a great physicist, whose Bohmian Mechanics provides the best alternative to the Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics. He had a remarkable life in many ways. As a graduate student of Oppenheimer at Berkeley, he worked on the Manhattan Project, but was denied security clearance because of his Marxist views, and was forbidden to read his own papers or to write his Ph. D. thesis. Later he was hounded out of the country by the HUAC. He went from a Marxist materialist to a spiritual outlook which led him to collaborate with Krishnamurti. Peat was a longtime friend and collaborator, and the biography is a great and informative read.

10 people found this helpful


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sharon graham

5.0 out of 5 stars Great bookReviewed in the United States on September 10, 2021
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Great work, a true genius

2 people found this helpful


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Walter E. Parker

5.0 out of 5 stars A must read for everyone interested in scientific metaphysicsReviewed in the United States on March 21, 2021
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An objective, thorough outline of the life and thought of one of our greatest thinkers. Very accessible for average but interested minds like mine.

2 people found this helpful


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Michael Anthony Caputo

5.0 out of 5 stars The Genius of BohmReviewed in the United States on October 23, 2018
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Excellent biography -- well written & considers all vital aspects of the life of this great man. Although the author tries to emphasize Bohm's spiritual awareness he falls short in presenting this aspect of Bohm's visionary personality. Highly recommended.

8 people found this helpful


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WILLIAM T

5.0 out of 5 stars Don't miss this important work about one of the greatest minds ever.Reviewed in the United States on November 5, 2016
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A wonderful insight to a remarkable mind. I think Bohms' dialogues with Krishnamurti exposed mankind's dilemma while perhaps showing the only plausible way out. Ultimate truth for Bohm is Love has no divisions and knowledge although important can not attain the essence.

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Kathy

4.0 out of 5 stars Hometown boy Makes goodReviewed in the United States on September 20, 2015
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I bought this as a gift for my brother and read a bit of it myself too since David Bohm grew up in our hometown and went to our high school

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Barry Winbolt
4.0 out of 5 stars A rounded picture of a complex manReviewed in the United Kingdom on February 21, 2014
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This is a thoroughly researched and detailed account of a life which by any account was as troubled as it was driven by a passion for learning and insight. Despite his brilliance, David Bohm was as flawed as any of us. Problems seemed to arise for him because the very drive and obstinacy which allowed him to develop such brilliant insights in his work, proved a hindrance when applied to the business of life and relationships.
I came to the book because of my interest in dialogue. I knew from his book on the topic that Bohm developed an approach to dialogue in later life, I now know much more about how his ideas developed and were applied. Written by someone who understood and admired Bohm's work, the technical aspects of physics though well explained were still a little obscure for me. I still couldn't put the book down and it brought the man and his work to life for me.

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Displaying 1 - 7 of 7 reviews
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Sky
10 reviews
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February 21, 2011
Fascinating story of a remarkable man who is by all standards of the same stature as your Newtons and Einsteins. However, due to his holistic approach, his radical new approaches to physics, his communist sympathies and his interests in spirituality, he never got any prestigious award and hence most people have never heard of him. Which is a shame, because, he is one of the only scientists to come up with an ontological explanation of quantum physics, and a very common-sense theory of theories.
This biography is a bit messy at times, but it seems to give a good overview of who Bohm really was and of the astounding theories he envisioned and/or helped to develop. It also manages to put Krishnamurti and his teachings into perspective.
A tragic life, but his important legacy remains.
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Tonino Filipovic
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March 8, 2022
Beautifully written biography about one of the most extraordinary scientists, and above all, human beings of 20th century!
The man who dared being different and questioned establishment and authorities, both within scientific community and political establishment.
The man whose contribution to physics and to understanding of human consciousness will very likely be fully understood and recognized only in future.
Great work by D. Peat in portraying such a complex and maverick personality that Bohm had been throughout his life and career.

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Madeline
10 reviews

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September 5, 2021
I really enjoyed this comprehensive biography of quantum physicist David Bohm. The author communicates Bohm’s compelling and imaginative theories into language a layperson can (at least begin) to comprehend. I liked this book because I am intrigued by quantum physics and hope one day to have a rudimentary understanding. This book helped me in that quest.
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Nicholas
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October 8, 2018
Thorough and honest portrait of a fascinating figure.

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Will Cannon
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June 27, 2020
Read this during a cruise on year. Super... Dr. Bohm was a brilliant guy. 👍

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Jan
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July 7, 2016
This is a well-written book about a very interesting person. David Bohm was a unique and very creative person who had an exceptional mind. He was able to pursue abstract thought to a far greater degree than most other people. But it’s difficult to live in high abstraction without loosing one’s grounding. David Bohm’s wife, Saral, was his anchor in life. Saral gave David stability and, to the extent that it was possible, a normal life. Saral also tried to support David during his recurring periods of depression which, without her, could have cost him his life.

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Mike Ratner
63 reviews

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January 31, 2012
A very interesting subject but poor writing; couldn't finish it.

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Thought as a System: David Bohm: Amazon.com: Books

Thought as a System: David Bohm: 9780415110303: Amazon.com: Books

https://arena-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/2223192/ee192aafe12e541be6b3262b5f1939a1.pdf?1527250293


Thought as a System 1st Edition
by David Bohm (Author)

4.6 out of 5 stars 84 ratings 4.2 on Goodreads 282 ratings

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MichaelODonnell
5.0 out of 5 stars What Matters?
Reviewed in the United States on April 10, 2012
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The Paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould coined the acronym NOMA (Non-overlapping magisteria). This view advocated that "science and religion do not glower at each other . . . [but] interdigitate in patterns of complex fingering, and at every fractal scale of self-similarity." He suggests that "NOMA enjoys strong and fully explicit support, even from the primary cultural stereotypes of hard-line traditionalism" and that it is "a sound position of general consensus, established by long struggle among people of goodwill in both magisteria." Despite this there continues to be disagreement over where the boundaries between the two magisteria should be.


The irony here is that this statement either means nothing at all or it implies that there is overlap between these two `magisteria'--like two parallel lines meeting in curved space.


But, what does this have to do with `Thought As A System'?


In Bohm's view, we have inherited a belief that mind (or thought) is of an inherently different and higher order than matter. This belief has nurtured a faith in what we call `objectivity'--the capacity to observe and report neutrally on some object or event, without having any effect on what we are looking at, or without being affected by it..[Bohm] suggests that we have overextended our faith in the objectivist perspective. Once we make the critical (and false) assumption that thought and reality are not participating in our sense of reality, but only reporting on it, we are committed to a view that does not take into account the complex, unbroken processes that underlie the world as we experience it. (pp. ix, x) Thought As A System
So if we take `mind' to be a mere epiphenomena of matter (the scientific, materialist view), then all idealist or spiritual philosophies that posit a reality that transcends matter will appear false. But once we understand Bohm's observation that what we call `matter' is not some purely objective `fact' or reality, but is itself an idea derived from a perspective (mind/thought) that shapes our idea of matter (or any other `objective' fact) then all dichotomies between what is corporeal (physical) and noncorporeal (nonphysical) seem more problematic; that is, it opens the mind to the idea that science and religion might `interdigitate in patterns of complex fingering, and at every fractal scale of self-similarity.'


And, in my experience, no one is more knowledgeable when it comes to the intricate `interdigitation' of spiritual thought (east and west) and scientific thought than David Bohm. Bohm is the penultimate guide for anyone who has begun to suspect that the seemingly intractable contradictions between various spiritual world views, and similar contradictions between spiritual and scientific worldviews, might have more to do with how we view such things (mind) than intrinsic properties of the world (matter).
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dawn klasinski
4.0 out of 5 stars Good book, necessary for school not pleasure
Reviewed in the United States on October 19, 2020
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This book was required for school. I enjoyed it, there were some great learning tools and skills I can use in this book.
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lumine
5.0 out of 5 stars Thought as one's software.
Reviewed in the United States on November 11, 2017
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A most thought-provoking book in terms of its attention to the software it seems that thought is, and how by understanding it, one can detach oneself from its pernicious characteristics as well as the relatively positive aspects of it, when it relates to one's psychology. Even though Bohm died in the early 90s this book remains relevant to our current culture, thought being our software that can be modified, once we understand that this is what it clearly is. Who are we when psychological thought is not, I would like to ask? This is a question for everyone. Worth thinking about with "The Ending of Time" by Bohm and Krishnamurti to take you further.
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LifesPrizes
5.0 out of 5 stars Yes I think So
Reviewed in the United States on July 15, 2008
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An excellent mindful achievement reaching a new understanding about thoughts and thinking in our human construct. The two are apparently different from one another and the book attempts to explain questions and answers leading to thought and its relationship to our own understanding of the way we interpret the world around us.


I recommend reading this book if you have ever wondered why or how you think the way you think. I found this book to be a great catalyst into the quest to understand and properly define our thinking/thought process as well as a great added addition to David Bohms work.
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Republica Peruanu
4.0 out of 5 stars Fabulous
Reviewed in the United States on June 27, 2014
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Nobel Prize winner in theoretical physics, David Bohm as his stunning understanding of process-orented and systemic language constructions, elevates systemic meta-concepts into general applications for describing human predicaments. Having driven his fellow UC-Berkley crazy by venturing into dialogical process with Krishnamurti, or his writings on process linguistics, David Bohm's influence continues unabated.
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LKCool
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent book!
Reviewed in the United States on March 21, 2017
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Excellent book. David Bohm is a genus, he uses right words to describe some vague concepts. His concepts are similar to the core Buddhism. He also not to try to give explanations which he doesn't know for sure, I like to see that rather than him giving misconceptions to the readers. Great book.
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Sunny
3.0 out of 5 stars Humans behave in predictable patterns very similar to Pavlov's dogs ...
Reviewed in the United States on July 24, 2016
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Humans behave in predictable patterns very similar to Pavlov's dogs. We can convince ourselves that we control the stimulus that causes us to salivate (like Pavlov's dog) but in end end, we have very little control over what makes us who we are because most people don't care to look and won't believe it anyway.
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Jason G.
5.0 out of 5 stars A crucial book for understanding thought and its effects
Reviewed in the United States on September 23, 2001
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I was introduced to Bohm through his video dialogue with Krishnamurti in The transformation of Man. He is one of the most honest, clear thinkers I have ever read. This book is really a transcript of a group discussion of thought with Bohm at the head. If you ever wonder why you get angry for "no reason" or why people get so upset over ideas, then read this book. And if you have an insight into the way thought works, you'll never be the same.
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P. Bessa
4.0 out of 5 stars A simple revolutionary idea.
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on July 23, 2019
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Whilst this is a heady book, and not the easiest read, the fundamental idea is a revolutionary and simple one: that the root of all human problems (and conflicts too) lies in the human thought and the way we think. It has been a central idea in my life ever since I read it.
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Amazon Kunde
5.0 out of 5 stars Outstanding work
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on August 13, 2021
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It's a great way to explore Bohm's ideas. The book is a transcript of dialogues between Bohm and Krishnamurti filled with some really good insights. Bohm was ahead of his time and his ideas seem to be gaining attention and influence only now.
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JC
5.0 out of 5 stars The best !
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on June 15, 2020
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Bohm is my hero 👍
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Amazon Customer
5.0 out of 5 stars This book is going to change my life for the better, I hope
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on December 3, 2016
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I am going to be more aware than before how I 'function' as a whole entity and be more coherent between my thinking and acting.
This book is going to change my life for the better, I hope... if I fully grasp what David Bohm bring forth...
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Lewis Fernandez
5.0 out of 5 stars This book will make you aware of all the traps ...
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on December 4, 2017
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This book will make you aware of all the traps and nuances of the ego, and show you why you suffer.
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==





Thought as a System

David Bohm, Lee Nichol (Foreword by)

4.20
281 ratings15 reviews

This study concerns the role of thought and knowledge. The author rejects the notion that our thinking processes neutrally report on what is out there in an objective world. He explores the manner in which thought actively participates in forming our perceptions, our sense of meaning and our daily actions. He suggests that collective thought and knowledge have become so automated that we are in large part controlled by them, with a subsequent loss of authenticity, freedom and order.
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GenresPhilosophyPsychologyNonfictionSciencePhysicsPersonal DevelopmentTheory



272 pages, Paperback

First published August 18, 1994
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About the author


David Bohm44 books351 followers

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David Joseph Bohm (December 20, 1917 – October 27, 1992) was an American scientist who has been described as one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century and who contributed innovative and unorthodox ideas to quantum theory, neuropsychology and the philosophy of mind.
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Neil White
130 reviews · 13 followers

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February 11, 2012
The late great Bohm was a student of the pioneering physicist Niels Bohr, who as brilliant as he was, was unwilling and unable to see eye to eye with Einstein on relativity vs quantum mechanics. Einstein himself was just as stubborn, and the fact that the two most brilliant minds of the 20th century couldn't even acknowledge each other in the same room profoundly affected Bohm and his ideas on communication, dialogue, and thought itself.

This was a tough read at times, no doubt about that, but ultimately I found this as challenging and rewarding as all the other Bohm books I've read in the past. Bohm is a tough read at the best of times, mostly because his concepts of things we take for granted like thought and dialogue itself are so seemingly revolutionary that by the time I've grasped what he's talking about, he's on to something else.

To put it as best I can, Bohm's idea of thought, which he expounds upon in the form of a dialogue with students over a span of three days (five sessions) is that it is a material process, involving not just the brain but the entire body, almost a self-aware reflex that's not always to be trusted. Thought, as Bohm would tell it, is responsible for a great many problems such as prejudice and other negative assumptions. Thought is what is telling us to jump the gun when we get angry at someone we think (thinking is different than the process and system of thought, mind you) has wronged us. And thought, tricky bastard that it is, isn't revealing itself in that process - this is why we take these things so personally, we feel like it's coming from us, when in fact it's not. It's problems like these that lead to collapse in communication and dialogue, which Bohm laments as one of the biggest problems of the 20th century. (I'm glad he's not alive to see Congress these days.)

I apologize if none of this makes any sense - that's my failing, not his. He goes into way way waaaaayyy more detail than I ever could here, but if the philosophical waxings of one of the most enlightened quantum physicists of the last 50 years sounds interesting, this is as good a place to start as any, although I would probably recommend his great "On Dialogue" as the best start. He expounds on the concepts presented in "OD" in more detail and laid out in a more linear fashion, whereas TAAS is very much an informal dialogue (please note that - I've seen several reviews blasting this book for not being researched and notated - did they not read that this was a three-day informal conversation?) that goes in and out among several major concepts. This is by no means light reading, but if you're looking for a good kick in the pants from modern philosophy, give this one a try.

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Nick
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May 19, 2014
A good book that delves into important questions that, though deeply philosophical, have relevance to our everyday lives and relationships. Bohm has a tendency to be a bit wordy, and the dialogue-like format of the book doesn't help at all...still, the content is there and is worth getting at, stylistic problems aside. Fair warning, however; those looking for a rigorous scientific discussion will be disappointed. Although he is an accomplished Physicist, Bohm's approach to these problems is based on careful examination of one's own experiences and is purposely vague.

In the book, Bohm discusses how disorder/violence at both the international and interpersonal scale ultimately have their roots in 'incoherent' thought. He spends much of the book discussing what sort of patterns in thought lead to this disorder, and what steps might be taken to surmount it, or at least become more aware of it.

Overall, this is definitely worth the time for anyone interested in philosophy of the mind, large-scale social problems, or metaphysics.

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Huong Pham
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October 6, 2020
Cuốn sách nằm trong tủ sách tinh hoa nhưng với mình có chút lan man. Có những ý tưởng nhìn nhận tư duy như một hệ thống, tránh những bẫy tư duy tự tạo ra.

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Pretend Person
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January 3, 2023
Thought is Not a System

In this book, Bohm points out that thought is the tool by which we solve every kind of human problem. However, he also maintains that thought is the source of the very problems that thought is recruited to solve. To say that this an irony and that Bohm acknowledged this irony is too understate the problem with Bohm’s approach which is a priori and based on flawed logical grounds. Bohm asks that we do not to get stuck in well-worn patterns of thought and analysis but by taking on thought as a system we become just that, get stuck in thought - as a system as our new pattern of thought and analysis. That is, we must take on Bohm’s system so as not to get stuck in a system. Bohm's most compelling proposal is in his notion of the proprioception of thought which suggests a state of consciousness that is beyond conscious thought but this becomes self-refuting. Bohm is suggesting a state of consciousness beyond consciousness by which we become aware of this state conscious which is beyond consciousness. This is self-refuting, how can we use conscious to get beyond consciousness? We are better served, and history has shown, that we are better off when we streamline our ontology, not complicate it with additional entitles and systems.

Bohm maintains that thought is a system, but to say that the problem is thought is a mistake. Using thought (as the tool) to analyze or critique thought (the cause of the problem) is recursive and self-reflexive. That is, one must engage in thought to claim that thought is the problem or to make any claims about thought. An essential consequence of thinking as such, of the existence in the human brain, is Bohm's thought as a system. This is to deduce an existential proposition from a tautology which is logically impossible. Such claims are known as analytic tautologies. They tell us exactly nothing about the world and existence.

To quote from Bohm, “You may say "I see a problem here, so I will bring my thoughts to bear on this problem". But "my" thought is part of the system. It has the same fault as the fault I'm trying to look at, or a similar fault. Thought is constantly creating problems that way and then trying to solve them. But as it tries to solve them it makes it worse because it doesn’t notice that it's creating them, and the more it thinks, the more problems it creates” Given this, how did David Bohm use thought to get outside of the all-encompassing system of thought to see the problem of thought as a system? Bohm falls prey to his own fallacy, viz., the fixed assumption that thought is (must be) a system. There is another fallacy at work here, that of equivocation between thought as the subject and thought as the predicate. In Bohm’s approach, thought keeps moving between being the subject of the analysis and being the tool of the analysis and even does double duty as both the tool and subject simultaneously. This is double talk and equivocation. Thought moves from the thing (subject) to a property of the thing (predicate). This is a deceptive logical move similar to one that Anselm made in the ontological argument as exposed by Kant.

I quote further, “Now, I say that this system has a fault in it — a 'systematic fault'. It is not a fault here, there or here, but it is a fault that is all throughout the system. Can you picture that? It is everywhere and nowhere.” Did he really say, everywhere and nowhere? This statement is incoherent. No predicate can be simultaneously attributed and denied to a subject otherwise we lose our ability to think properly at all as when he claims that a systematic flaw is everywhere and nowhere. We understand words such as cause, process and system when they are applied to the physical world. We can have no idea of what these mean when applied to in-material structures such as thought or thought as a system. This apparent confusion in the Bohm quote above is a category error.

Thought is the apparatus by which we organize our experience of existence, it does not have a separate existence apart from us that can be analyzed. Thought is not extant in the world independent of our thinking. This is the tautology (thinking about thought) thought is not something out there in the world to be grasped at and analyzed. Thought is not a system that yields truth in an absolute, objective and systematic manner. To build a system from thought is to claim too much. We cannot think about thought in a pure sense without there being something in it. Thought must be about something; it must have content.It cannot be isolated as a substance. Nor is there any universal thought, it is always relative to the thinker. Thought is not an observable, there is no substance or system of thought, it is not an inner mysterious process that lies behind our acts, there is no metaphysical arena of thought, there are internal mental states of thought but this does not create a system of thought. Thought as a system is simply the creation of a metaphysical system that generates problems that it cannot resolve.

To focus on thought as the problem is to use language to disguise the chase for an illusionary line of reasoning down the rabbit hole in the search for new propositions about the world and existence. These analytic propositions have no factual content in the world. There is nothing that can be said or claimed about thought by thought that can be empirically tested. Thought as a system cannot be shown to be logically true or empirically verified. From tautology flows only more tautologies, not existential propositions. I will admit that It is very difficult to speak about thought without language. We cannot have language without thought and we cannot have thought without language. All the same, this pursuit is a philosophical dead-end.

A further error in thinking of thought as a system is that it creates a phenomenological fallacy. Simply stated, phenomenology is the study of the structures of consciousness as experienced from a first-person point of view, it is about of the character of our experience. The mistaken assumption is that one's introspective observations or experiences must comport to something external; that they comprise a ‘system’ which in this case turns out to be some sort of new mysterious metaphysical system. The phenomenological fallacy is to think that there must be some thing or system that corresponds to the experience of our thoughts. There is no system as such, it is a sort of phantom after-image of our experience of thought. First person subjective experiences are not additive. Thought is a brain process, nothing more. The brain is empirically verifiable and can this be shown to exist; the conclusion of a system is an irrelevant conclusion.

Bohm’s system does not reside in physical space but the brain does, so the system does not exist but the brain does. There is no such thing as thought as a system, there just seems to be an experience of a system based on the experience of thought. The phenomenological fallacy is in thinking that something must exist such as the system to correspond to the experience of thought. There is no need to posit the existence of an extraneous entity such as an extra system. This is needless complexity. There is thought which is reducible to the brain, nothing more.

I agree that our awareness of the world is filtered through our perceptual apparatus and colored by our expectations. In this sense, assuming we accept the existence of a world external to our perceptions, we can never fully know that external world as is truly exists. As the ‘things in themselves’ as Immanuel Kant put it; this is nothing new. But from here, it does not follow that thought is analyzable as a recursive system. From Bohm’s approach, it would follow that we can overcome our perceptual apparatus with our perceptual apparatus. This is not ironic, it is just incoherent.

After all this, I must wonder, is Bohm trying to impose order on chaos? A system implies order. Is he trying to avoid, and thus rescue us from, the only true metaphysics, that of the chaos and the accompanying nightmare of existence; a paradox and horror in which everything we believe is uncertain at best and most likely false. Bohm was an award-winning physicist and an expert in quantum mechanics. Perhaps he knows something we do not. Or, what is most likely going on here in my opinion is a metaphysics of personality so to speak. Bohm’s thought as a system reflects his subjective experience of existence, the nuance of his psychology and the distinction of his personality, not actualities about existence. Or, what is most likely going on here in my opinion is a metaphysics of personality so to speak. Bohm’s thought as a system reflects his subjective experience of existence, the nuance of his psychology and the distinction of his personality, not actualities about existence. For Bohm, the world of thought is much more real than the physical world, he seems to regard it alone as real, the real world so to speak.

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Torben Rasmussen
102 reviews · 6 followers

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August 23, 2012
Bohm has an interesting thesis concerning the nature of thought and thinking. Unfortunately the format of writing a transcript of a 2 day session with Bohm and an anonymous group of questioneers is very and many good point are lost. Alse beware that this in essense a philosophical work and though the author seem aware of the science behind his statement, there is little actual demonstration of it.
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Kyle
26 reviews · 8 followers

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ReadAugust 22, 2017
Whoa! Trippy physics from the 90's trying hard to define thought less like a series of unfortunate events and more like a series of happenings, happening ALL AT ONCE and some of them haven't even happened yet!

I loved it. But, I'm a dirty hippie.

If you are interested in ideas surrounding instinct and memory, check it out.

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Susanna Long
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July 26, 2012
phenomenal! this man blows me away!

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Mike Phung
58 reviews · 1 follower

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March 13, 2019
this is very good book and it quite compact and was written in form of 2 days talk of Bohm and his colleges. There a some points very interesting that i've learnt

- thought are dependent of feeling and this is how your reaction is bad if you're angry, or you are in the bad "mood"
- you are always thinking that you should behave as your thought, that's not true, you can decide how to deal with it if you're understanding that thought should not define what and how you interact with "things" or your life.
- be optimistic does not always help, because the pessimistic thought is still there, it is suppressed behind the current situation and can comeback any time. Being optimistic is also endorphin addicted and won't be the best solution from time to time! May be not too optimistic nor pessimistic but neutral?
- your thought is a kind of chemical reaction or more specific, it's a reflection. So it's important to understand and recognize it and you can control it from time to time!

and something about meaning of time related to thought, we should consider to treat thought independent with time.

This book is not a book to read once, but it's worth to try even you can't understand all of this at the first time!

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Dolf van der Haven
15 books · 10 followers

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September 9, 2019
David Bohm has a complicated way to explain things. His use of the word "thought" had me confused for half the book, until I realised he meant "conditioning" or (psychological) "imprints". Then, things became clearer, but his way of thinking is so particular (him being so strongly influenced by Jiddhu Krishnamurti doesn't help with clarity either), that I had to constantly try and relate his concepts to everything I read about (evolutionary) psychology, spirituality, therapy, and other subjects that are more mainstream.
That said, Bohm's insights are powerful food for thought and eventually seem to greatly match my own model of the world. This I realised around page 172 of the book, after which the going was less tough...
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Ba Thu
3 reviews

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September 28, 2021
I have read the translated version in Vietnamese. It drove me crazy because the author had not expressed the ideas clearly. Instead, the author presented all the views through the form of a meeting, a conference. So the general thoughts are interwoven according to each suggestion of conference participants. Some have been mentioned above, suddenly appeared again and dropped.
Probably, because of the roundabout translation, I could not follow the flow of the author. I will try to read it in English again and give another review later.
In the end, just only several key points I can take from the book that might help. Thinking like a system is a part of our instinct, but sometimes, it can drive us the wrong way.

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Displaying 1 - 10 of 15 reviews