2025/09/09

Grace And Grit: Spirituality and Healing in the Life and Death of Treya Killam Wilber : Wilber, Ken: Amazon.com.au: Books

Grace And Grit: Spirituality and Healing in the Life and Death of Treya Killam Wilber : Wilber, Ken: Amazon.com.au: Books
https://archive.org/details/gracegrit00kenw




Grace And Grit: Spirituality and Healing in the Life and Death of Treya Killam Wilber Paperback – 15 January 2001
by Ken Wilber (Author)
4.7 4.7 out of 5 stars (305)


Here is a deeply moving account of a couple's struggle with cancer and their journey to spiritual healing. Grace and Grit is the compelling story of the five-year journey of Ken Wilber and his wife Treya Killam Wilber through Treya's illness, treatment, and, finally, death.


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From other countries


Maria Izabel Laczko Gebrael
5.0 out of 5 stars Uma lição de vida.
Reviewed in Brazil on 1 September 2015
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Um dos melhores livros que li em toda a minha vida. Uma lição de como viver e enfrentar uma doença terminal. Uma lição de amor conjungal.
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TK
5.0 out of 5 stars Amazing Story
Reviewed in Canada on 25 January 2024
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The author and partner were able to journal and recall emotions and details over the five years, amazing!
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Zubin
5.0 out of 5 stars Wat een Proces
Reviewed in the Netherlands on 8 May 2018
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Ik heb van de oprechtheid en open delen van waaruit dit boek is geschreven. Beiden geven ons inzicht in zich zelf, en zo ook in het leven... en in het sterven. Voel me heel dankbaar dat ik deze inzichten met ons gedeeld worden.
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Ali H
5.0 out of 5 stars Grace and Grit
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 23 November 2023
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Grace and Grit says it all. A beautiful love story which had a beautilful ending. I am movrd beyond words.
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Bernard Kwan
5.0 out of 5 stars Hard Won Wisdom
Reviewed in the United States on 16 July 2003
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To be perfectly honest, some of the other Ken Wilbur books that I have read have tended to have been excessively cerebral and potentially offputting to the general reader - they are like academic textbooks which assume prior knowledge of psychology, philosophy and the sciences, which one has to labor through in order to "get it" in the end. There is also a certain smugness in the elegant systems that he builds that always seemed so far removed from the messiness of daily life, and I have always believed that spirituality, has to be lived to be understood.
This book is exact opposite of the above, it is an inspiration about how to live life - in all its pain and imperfections and finally the redemptive power of love. I can only say that I one of the few times I have felt truly in awe of a person was throughout the reading of this book.
It touches on all the important questions life, death, love, destiny, purpose, spirituality, the relationship between the soul and the body - and most of all it has the potential to heal and transform.
My friend Hiromi - to whom I lent this book when her mother was dying of cancer told me she could only read a few pages at a time without putting it down because the shock of recognition and empathy was too great, yet she could not help but read it from cover to cover. Instead of abstract platitudes she received wisdom that was won at a high price. She belies that it helped her come to terms and lent her support through the whole experience and is helping her to heal. And perhaps there is really not much more I can add to an endorsement like that.
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Pfluger Sandra
5.0 out of 5 stars Ein bewegendes Buch
Reviewed in Germany on 7 February 2016
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Grace and Grit ist ein unglaublich vielschichtiges Buch, das weit mehr als die Krankheitsgeschichte einer eindrücklichen, begabten, jungen Frau beschreibt. Absolut lesenswert!
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Luca
5.0 out of 5 stars An must read to understand what takes to experience death
Reviewed in Italy on 2 June 2023
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Death and transpassing is central to this book. It sheds a light on the saying that love hurts but by hurting is capable to chance one self.
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Get in my Cart!
5.0 out of 5 stars My favorite book of all time
Reviewed in the United States on 17 February 2014
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I initially read this book for a college course called "Life, Death and Spiritual Development". Very interesting class, and this book stood out head and shoulders for me from the (otherwise excellent) course reading list as the one that really captivated my attention and imagination. I ended up writing my final paper for the course based primarily on this book and how it altered my life. That was in the mid 90's.


Fast forwarding, I have since recommended, and purchased, this book to many many people... Started with my father, who was a cancer surgeon and therefore I thought it would be a good thing for him to read. He isn't really into touchy-feely or spiritual stuff, but he is an intellectual and a big reader, and almost surprisingly (because of what I perceived as his potential aversion to "new age" spirituality) he loved the book as well. Then I gave it to my sister, then some people who I met or knew that had cancer. Then I read it again myself, maybe 5 years or so after my first reading. It is the ONLY book in my life that I have ever read twice. And I was both captivated and cried both times while reading it. It's been another 10-15 years, maybe I could even give it another read?!?


Every single person I have given or recommended this book to has loved it. Many of them went on to read other Ken Wilber books, as I did. Truth told, I found the other books I read by him to be less captivating, possibly a bit over my head, and just not as personal and raw and emotional as this story. Perhaps because he brilliantly interweaves the philosophy/spirituality concepts into his own deeply personal love and life story, and blends both of those with the first hand account and journal entries of his wife, who in and of herself was a brilliant writer and human being.


"Love at first touch, that's what she always called it." is, if I recall correctly, the very first sentence of this book. For my part, I would say that my review could have started and ended with, "Hooked at first line."


And lastly, something I've said now to many people over the years since my first read of Grace and Grit:


I HIGHLY recommended this book for:


1) Anyone who has faced or is facing cancer
2) Anyone who is a support person for someone facing cancer
3) Anyone who works with people who are facing or fighting cancer
4) Everyone else.
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Dr. Merika
5.0 out of 5 stars One of the most profound books I have ever read
Reviewed in Canada on 25 March 2014
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It took me months to read this book as it was painful, and I wanted to savour the thoughts. Ken's deep love of Treya comes through
and anyone who has ever lost anyone to death will understand and resonate with the long journey.
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Ranjit
4.0 out of 5 stars a book on death,love and living through cancer
Reviewed in India on 20 February 2015
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really a book to go through.if one had really been in love.as one move on to the last chapter it will be hard to hold one's tear
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rom other countries


Kindle Customer
5.0 out of 5 stars Harrowing account by one of the foremost spiritual writers of our time
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 10 February 2020
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This account – the shared story of the 5 years between the authors marriage and the death from breast cancer of his wife has so many aspects to it – it is a harrowing journey of 2 people in relationship under assault by cancer. It's an inspiring account of how they handled it within the relationship and its effect on the relationship. It also features the authors take on nonreligious spirituality in a very digestible form and contains many reflections on the nature of illness and disease and our response to it both culturally and personally.
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Clare de Lune
5.0 out of 5 stars A friend recommended this book
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 4 February 2015
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A friend recommended this book, as I am dealing with cancer. I thought it might be too close to the bone to read, but actually it is a great book. I recognise a lot of my own feelings and experience, and there is deep exploration and insight into death and dying and healing one's life. It is also a love story. It is told from both Ken and Treya's perspective (speaking through her journal entries). It is an engaging read and I would highly recommend it.
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anita joy delight
5.0 out of 5 stars A wonderfully engaging read . . .
Reviewed in the United States on 24 June 2021
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I only learned of this book recently. It reminded me of a 1989 issue of "New Age Journal" which I've saved for 32 years because of an article that deeply moved me about a young woman dying. That article, "Love Story," turns out to be an excerpt from this book.


I'm not yet far into the book, but I can safely say I love it first and foremost because of the story itself - that of Ken and Treya Wiber's loving relationship and their remarkable journey through her illness and death. Beyond that, I am deeply appreciating the wealth of information, intentionally incorporated, that pertains to important aspects of our human experience, including thoughtful insights into illness and the medical system, basic psychology, spirituality and 'perennial wisdom.' I anticipate relishing the book in its entirety!


I've had a tendency to shy away from Ken Wilber's work based on an assumption that it would prove to be 'heavy' reading and that I might find it to be 'laborious' reading. This book is eminently readable instilling in me considerable optimism that I might actually enjoy moving on to other of his books when I'm finished reading this . . .
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Barbora
5.0 out of 5 stars Exceptional book
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 3 June 2020
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The book arrived fast and looked like new.
The content of the book is even better, I have just started reading, but I have heard so many recommendations. Adn I can tell that this book is very good.
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AP
4.0 out of 5 stars A many levels reading
Reviewed in the United States on 1 February 2014
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I think this book has many levels to it: First (and most important) one has the opportunity to witness and share an extraordinary journey of courage and self knowledge; second, it helps introduce the reader to Wilber's ideas in a very soft and easy way; third, it is a powerful love story
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Lady Rose
4.0 out of 5 stars Inspiring & very emotional book to read
Reviewed in Canada on 12 August 2015
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A book filled with inspiration, profound sadness, and unbelievable strength by Treya as she lived her life and died with an awful disease. Ken and Treya lived their lives immersed in the New Age philosophy, which is where they got their strength, love and commitment to each other. I don't follow the New Age way so I admit I skipped over the part where Ken was being interviewed as this wasn't for me, however if you do follow the New Age philosophy, you will find this part extremely helpful and informative. I was so astonished with how Treya never gave up on fighting for her life and the treatments she went through were horrible, awful, painful and yet she proceeded to complete each one until nothing else could be done for her. When she was ready to let it all go, she did so with grace, peace and a happiness that everyone she knew, was happy for her. You will need a Kleenex at the end of this book.
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gillian woodward
4.0 out of 5 stars Raw honesty
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 24 March 2014
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Best contemporary exploration of cancer and its symbolic meaning in our society I have ever read. Its raw honesty is very moving.
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Novel Gazer
5.0 out of 5 stars Poignant and powerful
Reviewed in the United States on 18 December 2012
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I first read about Ken and Treya's story a long time ago in a New Age Journal article, probably in the early 1970s, and never forgot it. A few years ago, though by then I'd forgotten their names, I decided to try to learn more about their story and through various online searches finally found this book. The story of their love and the continual deepening of Treya's spirit, much of it told in her own words, is very beautiful. I must confess I skipped over a lot of the philosophical content....though I am intrigued by such theories/insights/musings/teachings (or combination thereof), these passages were no match for the personal story of this couple and, especially, this amazing woman. I greatly appreciated Wilber's candor in documenting the difficulties they went through, their very human failings and frustrations and angers, before they got to the mutually nurturing place they finally achieved together--under the circumstances, a truly impressive achievement. I also fell more than a little in love with Treya, and the story of her strength, courage, and spiritual growth in the face of so much suffering is unforgettable. I still often pick up the book and reread smatterings of it for inspiration or solace. The recounting of her passing at the end has a beauty and mystery that are awe-inspiring. All in all, the book is a harrowing read, but an unforgettable one, and when you finish it, you feel as if you really know these two and thus have been personally affected by their journey. Their story will, if you let it, claim a small but permanent place in your soul ever after.
16 people found this helpful
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Diogo Rossi
5.0 out of 5 stars Profound wisdom!
Reviewed in the United States on 17 August 2005
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Just finished reading Grace and Grit and I don't remember reading a book that had such a great positive impact on me. I didn't think I could cry so much reading a book! Not of sadness but a mix of many emotions... Grace and Grit is about so many things and touch us at so many different levels, it is a must read!!!


This book is so profound and of such wisdom that it urged me to rethink both life and death... It made me think about so many things in my life: how I relate to the ones I love; my values, my desire for meaning, it made me think about serving other - about being compassionate. It is making me reflect on how I handle certain issues I before considered depressive and hard to deal with.


There are many good reviews written here and I don't want to be repetitive, I just wanted to leave my comment expressing how much this book touched me (and I believe will change me). This book has a message to all of us in our quest to live more joyfully, integrally and spiritually... Above all, above practices and teachings Grace and Grit shows us in a first person stance the tremendous power of love and compassion, of grace and grit.
15 people found this helpful
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Richard Briggs
5.0 out of 5 stars It's all here. I'm at a loss for words...
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 24 January 2019
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I'm sure other reviews have spoken more eloquently than I can do. I just wanted to add my voice to those who have shared this journey through love and loss, discovering something within themselves at the same time.
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From other countries


ghislaine picchio
5.0 out of 5 stars cry and laugh and I feel better prepared to live a fuller life and die aware
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 15 June 2016
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Very moving and so, so humane. Made me reflect, cry and laugh and I feel better prepared to live a fuller life and die aware.
A BIG MERCI.
Ghislaine
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Susan Moore-Jones
5.0 out of 5 stars Everyone Should Read This
Reviewed in the United States on 2 January 2013
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I bought this book because I had several friends dealing with various forms of cancer and I am a great fan of Ken Wilber's philosophical writings. I promptly lent my hitherto never relinquished Kindle to one of these friends because I felt it so important she read the book and her husband bought her a Kindle for Christmas so she can buy her own copy, so valuable did she find it.
I am re-reading it myself in order to make my support for my friends higher value.
This is not a book only for those touched by cancer in some way. It is a wonderfully enlightening book for anyone who wants some help to live life more fully and to encourage others to do the same.
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Avid Reader in Northern Wisconsin
5.0 out of 5 stars This book has profoundly affected how I view my role as a care giver to my very ill wife!
Reviewed in the United States on 22 December 2015
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I just finished reading "Grace and Grit". As the caregiver to my wife who is suffering from kidney disease, I can honestly relate to his message. In April, I survived a head-on car crash that I was not supposed to walk away from. This sense of "life repurposing" has given me the energy to be the support person as she suffers through her disease. At times, I felt that Ken was talking directly to me - sitting across from me in the same room - his story is that powerful!


This quote taken from page 363 really sums up an important part of his message “…..I increasingly see my support person activity as being a major part of selfless service and therefore of my own spiritual growth, a type of meditation in action, a type of compassion.”


Extremely well written
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The Tudor Travel Guide
5.0 out of 5 stars Loved it!
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on 3 May 2016
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Such a compelling, moving and inspiring story of making peace with life (and death). This is a keeper and I can't recommend it highly enough.
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B. Penn
2.0 out of 5 stars THAT CANCER IS NOT A DEADLY DISEASE
Reviewed in Canada on 15 October 2020
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I love the way Ken Wilber describes their love story, their difficulties in the relationship and how they overcame their difficulties by cleaning out their own behavioral patterns caused by suppressed emotions of traumas in their past and their spiritual search for the truth. They are so honest and open about the process. That draws my respect.
I was disappointed that such intelligent people as Wilber and his wife chose for the devastating harmful treatments of oncology and did not dare to take their personal responsibility to heal cancer naturally, although they did a lot of research. My own natural healing process from metastasis cancer ( diagnosed in 2001) without chemo, radiation and surgery has brought me the experience that cancer is not a deadly disease, and now many years later, I also know why this is so on physical, emotional, mental and spiritual level, because of my own research. Oct.2020.
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K. Huggs
3.0 out of 5 stars Good ad for breast self-exams and mammograms.
Reviewed in the United States on 8 October 2017
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The star of the book is unquestionably, Treya, Wilber's wife. In fact, there's more of her writing in the book than his. I don't know why he didn't put her on posthumously as co-author.
I don't doubt the love that ultimately triumphs, but I can't help but think of all the people facing terminal cancer who don't have the money to do what Wilber and Treya do, hopping over the Germany for six weeks for a special treatment, then to New York City, Wilber going off on a ten day Bubbhist retreat, and so on.
The other thing that infuriated me is how they go for another cancer treatment while she is dying with multiple tumors all over her body, including her brain.
It's also a good implicit ad for the importance of breast self-exams and mammograms, neither of which she did before diagnosis at 36. She also describes herself as having large, lumpy breasts, which makes regular exams even more important.
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Winter Peanuttle
5.0 out of 5 stars Changed My Life
Reviewed in the United States on 1 January 2014
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Required reading for nursing school. I absolutely LOVED it. I was crying uncontrollably at the end. Ended up buying this book for several people as a gift.


After reading this, I was inspired to read more of Ken Wilber in hopes that it would be as emotionally captivating and spiritually enlightening as Grace and Grit. Unfortunately, the rest of his work is VERY cerebral and I wasn't able to get through much of it. This seems to have been a one-time-thing... perhaps the heart influence of Treya. I wish there were more stories like this...
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Melissa Finn
5.0 out of 5 stars Beautiful story about perseverance, love, spirituality, philosophy
Reviewed in the United States on 4 September 2009
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This is a really beautiful book. The last 100 pages I read through tears. Wilber creatively weaves Treya's inspiring story with his own as a support person along with his usual expositions on spirituality/philosophy. I recommend this book, not only to those battling cancer, but to anyone experiencing any sort of crisis. Treya's beauty and strength shine throughout the entire book proving Wilber's gifts as a talented writer. I am especially impressed that Wilber did not feel the need to gloss over and beautify the ugly moments that inevitably happen in such tragedies making the telling of his life with Treya's a profoundly human story.
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Diane Rooney
5.0 out of 5 stars A wonderful read
Reviewed in the United States on 11 August 2013
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Because I work in a hospital with children with Cancer, reading a book about it was the last thing I wanted to do. With the encouragement of a friend, I read it. I couldn't put it down. It is not really about Cancer but its a story, through one woman's experiences, about the relationship we all have with life threatening diseases. The relationship between Treya and her husband Ken is also inspiriting and enlightening. One learns of evolution of consciousness and spirit while being engrossed in the story of love.
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Pamela Maccabee
5.0 out of 5 stars ONE OF BEST BOOKS I EVER READ
Reviewed in the United States on 23 February 2015
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This book defies description, almost. I have never read a book so full of love, grief, and joy. I recommend it to everyone I know whether they are interested in spirituality or healing or "simply" living a deep and meaningful life. If I could take only one book with me into the afterlife, this would be the one. And if there is no afterlife, well, I have it here, right in my hot little hand ready for a second "read."
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Linda
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July 18, 2010
Recommended by a good friend I love and respect, a psychologist by profession and warm and sensitive spirit by nature, when she heard my brother was battling pancreatic cancer.


It took me a long time -- 3 years, actually -- to get to this book. I have to admit, the reason was that I was afraid to read it. My friend lent me her copy during the months when my brother was being treated for cancer, and I didn't know if I would be able to handle reading about someone who lost her own battle. I finally picked it up this year, and as fate would have it, my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer while I was reading it. So much for avoiding reading it during a trying time in my life...


As it turns out, though, my fears were pretty well unfounded. As my friend had said herself, Grace and Grit was a very uplifting story of someone who was transformed over the course of her 5-year battle with recurring cancer, who reached a new level of understanding and peace in her life and served as an inspiration to all who knew her as well as to many who have read her story since.


The story is that of Treya Killam Wilber and her husband Ken Wilber, who meet and fall instantly in love, are married within months, and just weeks later are hit with the devastating news that Treya has been afflicted with breast cancer. Their 5 years together are dominated by Treya's health -- episodes of remission and recurrence, a wild array of treatments and approaches, the cancer's increasing aggressivity -- and their struggle as a couple as their love grows but their relationship is tested by the slings and arrows of their outrageous fortune. The book is also an examination of their spiritual progression, and much space is given over to explanations of spiritual seeking and practices from Ken Wilber, a well-known expert in the field of what most people would characterize as new-age-type spiritualty,


As a result, I would say that reading this is not for the faint of heart. Not, as you might expect, because of Treya's illness and treatment, but rather because of the spirituality/philosophy discussions, which are weighty, academic, and arcane, and far beyond most people's level of engagement with such things. I often found myself wishing I could excise away most of that discussion, and give much more time over to Treya's story. One of the nice parts of the book is that Ken includes excerpts from Treya's journals, and I would have enjoyed hearing even more of her voice. To be honest, Ken himself sometimes comes off in the book as someone who rather likes to hear himself speak -- although he does deserve much recognition for being stoically honest in owning up to some of his own failings as Treya's partner and caregiver, and he does not dress up his own mistakes.


The best and most interesting parts of the book were those that had to do with Treya. I have my own struggles with (against?) traditional religion, and I don't think that simply switching allegiances to other, more exotic or alternative spiritual paths is a solution to the problem. Having said that, since I didn't actually skip any part of the book, the spirituality parts did spark a few intriguing questions even for me, but it was not what I came to the book to get. Treya's journey, on the other hand, not only kept my interest engaged, but also, as a person with two close relatives affected by cancer, and conscious of the distinct possibility that I may one day face it myself, reading about Treya's experience opened new perspectives in my understanding of what my family members were/are experiencing, and encouraged me to contemplate many new questions regarding how I might want to go through such a situation myself. For example, when Treya gets her first diagnosis of cancer, she captures in her journal her feelings of untethered isolation and bewilderment at the future, writing simply:
"Should I prepare to live? Or should I prepare to die? I do not know. No one can tell me. They can give me figures, but no one can tell me." (p. 39)
Also, she often returns to the theme of the myriad meanings that we give to illness, and how we often subconsciously blame the patient for his or her own disease, even when that patient is ourselves. One lesson I hope to remember from Treya's story is this:
"Pain is not punishment, death is not a failure, life is not a reward." (p. 279)




Not having read any of Ken Wilber's 800,000 other books, I only have this one to judge his skill as a writer, but on the basis of this one, I'd have to say his ideas are a bit ahead of his writing skills, to put it mildly. The first and most important complaint I have about the writing itself is that I finished the book really feeling that Ken failed to show, rather than tell, his readers about the kind of person Treya was. Again and again, Ken remarks on how wonderful she was, how everybody not only loved her but was inspired, moved, transformed by her. However, he rarely if ever gives examples of this, and as such, it's really hard just to accept what he says at face value. I mean, I'm sure she was a nice person and all, but isn't everyone who is close to someone going to say, oh, she was such a wonderful person? Just telling me over and over again doesn't convince me that she was any more extraordinary than any other nice human being on the earth. If you really want to convince me, help me feel what was special about her. As my high school composition teacher taught us, use examples to make your point, illustrate with details.


Secondly, for all his new-age/advanced/evolved thinking, Ken comes off as a fair bit of a sexist. Of course, I'm sure he would say all the right things about women's rights and gender roles, etc., etc. But at the same time, throughout the book women -- but not men -- are always introduced with some comment about their good looks. It really felt like no woman who entered the narrative was described without reference to her physical beauty. And despite the obvious deep-soul connection Ken has with Treya, most descriptions of why he loves her or why he was attracted to her begin first with a comment about how beautiful she was. I found it really condescending and trivializing toward women. If he did the same thing with men, it would sound ridiculous -- it would sound as ridiculous as it is. Take this description of one woman, for example: "She was tall, statuesque, good-looking, with black hair, red lipstick, a red dress, and black high heels." Multiply that by a factor of about, oh, thirty, to cover virtually every new woman who comes into the story. Now imagine he said of a man they had just met: "He was tall, magnificent, handsome, with sandy hair, shiny white teeth, a blue suit, and black wingtips." Now multiply that by a factor of 30 and you'll get an idea of how silly and annoying it is to have to deal with that type of description of practically every woman in the book. Pretty basic stuff, Ken. Time to read up on a little feminism. To be fair, I do think this is largely unconscious on his part, but that still doesn't make it right.


Leaving aside the writing style, if you are a follower of Ken Wilber and/or the type of spirituality he focuses on, I'm sure you'll find much to love here. If you're not, there is still a lot to learn from in the book in terms of living with cancer. For example, the best explanation of chemotherapy I have ever come across can be found on page 132:
"Aside from surgery, the main forms of Western medicine's attack on cancer -- chemotherapy and radiation -- are based on a single principle: cancer cells are extremely fast-growing. They divide much more rapidly than any of the body's normal cells. Therefore, if you administer an agent to the body that kills cells when they divide, then you will kill some normal cells but many more cancer cells. That is what both radiation and chemotherapy do. Of course the normal cells in the body that grow more rapidly than others -- such as hair, stomach lining, and mouth tissue -- will also be killed more rapidly, hence accounting for frequent hair loss, stomach nausea, and so on. But the overall idea is simple: Since cancer cells grow twice as fast as normal cells, then at the end of a successful course of chemotherapy, the tumor is totally dead and the patient is only half-dead." [emphasis in original:]
Also, even though at 20 years out, the book is quite dated, you can still get a good feel for some alternative cancer treatments, as well as the difference between approaches to cancer treatment between cultures, especially with respect to the treatment Treya undergoes in Germany. For example, this description of conversations with Treya's doctor in Germany when asked about particular treatments used in the US:
" 'We don't do it because the quality of life is so much lower. You must never forget,' he said, 'around the tumor is a human being.' [. . . :] We asked him about another treatment that was popular in the States. 'No, we don't do that.' 'Why?' 'Because,' he said directly, 'it poisons the soul.' Here was the man famous for the most aggressive chemotherapy in the world, but there were things he simply would not do because they damaged the soul." (p. 288)




Finally, two more quotes that spoke to me:


(1) "Ken likes to say that the work we do on ourselves, whether it's psychological or spiritual, is not meant to get rid of the waves in the ocean of life but for us to learn how to surf." (p. 378) This was a nice way of putting an idea that is partially captured by sayings like "Don't sweat the small stuff" and "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade." To me, the goal of life is contentment, and equanimity, and it would seem that a sure path to a discontented, dissatisfied life is to spend your days trying to stop the waves.


(2) "To forgive others for insults, real or imagined, is to weaken the boundary between self and other, to dissolve the sense of separation between subject and object." (p. 158). When I read this, I thought not so much of forgiveness, but of my field, grassroots rights work and community organizing. Real help for oppressed people comes from a compassion that is rooted in solidarity -- I am not helping you with your struggles; rather, your struggle is my struggle. It reminds me of the quote, well-known among activists, from Lila Watson, member of an Aboriginal women's rights group: "If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together." Real help comes from dissolving the separation between us and them, betwen subject and object. Without this solidarity, what you have is not compassion; it is patronizing, it is paternalism.


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Profile Image for Rob.
Rob
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February 18, 2009
My dear cousin lent me her copy of this book a few months back and at the time told me it was one of her all-time favorite books -- now after completing it myself -- I completely understand why.
This has to be one of the most emotionally touching and spiritually rewarding books I have ever read. As well as one of the most sincere and amazing love stories I could ever imagine.
It offers such personal insight into the dying process - but even more so into how that process can change ones perspective on how to truly live.
Absolutely beautiful.
It definitely has left me with a new appreciation for the love I have in my life and for our capacity to change. Our capacity to grow. To improve. To help. And to love.
The understanding that we are here for a higher purpose.
Like my cousin - it has found its way onto my all-time favorite list.
Beautiful.
2009

all-time-favorites


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Jaime
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September 29, 2007
written 7/7/04 after the death of my son isaak:


i just returned from warm sun rays in the back yard and a finished book that left me in tears. an old love sent this book to me, and the more i read it, the more reasoning for its arrival comes clear.


i can`t fully explain the emotion that sits upon my chest at the moment. but i can share a few passages that may make its way through.


from the book titled `grace and grit,' written by both ken wilber and his lost love treya.


these were her last moments here. on this planet...


`Her entire countenance lit up. She glowed. And right in front of my eyes her body began to change. Within one hour, it looked to me as if she lost ten pounds. It was as if her body, acquiescing to her will, began to shrink and draw in on itself.`


`The noble Goethe had a beautiful line: "all things ripe want to die."`


and it was this that boiled over in the form of tears. i held my son isaak as he passed. and this was the case, truly, of my experience with him. his lasts breaths were smile full. he was lit up knowing he was ok. knowing his time was granted and safely said good bye because he was surrounded by love. and his goodbye was not a forever departure, but that of time simply in between.


i was scared, i was angry, and sad like you could never imagine. but it`s these moments that its reality becomes more and more clear. more ok to bare. more ok to live fully, and yes, without him.


this life has been a curioous one. for sure.


i send love to him. through this, through me. forever...








and ever.


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Erica
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October 15, 2008
I gave up on this one. Although parts of this book really appealed to me (I especially enjoyed the reflections on eastern and western philosophy and religion) I couldn't stand Ken Wilber's self-importance. For a book about spirituality and healing he seemed rather full of himself. Also, I was floored that he didn't dedicate at least more than one paragraph to when he hit/beat Treya. Not saying he needed to dwell on it or dedicate a chapter to it, but for being such an unsettling moment, he could have allowed some reflection on how that moment my have impacted Treya, himself or their relationship.
memoirs_autobiographies_etc


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randy
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August 31, 2012
It is right there in the title, you know it is coming, Treya's death. You are pretty sure you will be ready for it, but it hits you like a typhoon, and you can not even stand for a long while after you read it. You know if it was a real typhoon, you would have drowned. SO yeah, this is an intense book, a very meaningful, intense book.


And before I sing it's praises, I must say I recommend this to anyone with a chronic illness or those caring for someone who has one. If this describes you: MAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS.


And if you are at all curious about confronting the fears you might have towards death: READ THIS BOOK.


In one of the late chapters of this, they (even though this is credited to just Ken Wilber, it is written by both he and his late wife Treya, and at times it is hard to tell whose voice is speaking) relate to meditation as practicing for death. I can not argue that in the slightest. And this whole book is both a love story between two people who obviously love each other more than the characters do in all the romantic comedies you have ever read/seen combined, but it is also practicing for dying. And this is really something to read. Something you clearly do not see much, if any, of in other books.


Imagine 10 days after marring the man of your dreams, starting chemo for the breast cancer they discovered. This is Treya's story. Rather than sunning herself in Hawaii she has her breast removed and begins a rigorous round of chemo. That seems a pretty remarkable story in and of itself, but she uses "cancer as a prompt to 'change those things in your life that need changing.'" And this is where the real story of healing and growth comes from.


As you can tell from the title, here healing is not the same as being cured. She never fully expels the cancer from her body, and it finally consumes her, but... she makes it extremely clear that cancer did incredible things for her, helped her grow and become a more fully realized person. A complete person.


And for anyone that may say her healing was incomplete, she confronts that very well: "I sometimes feel that those around me will judge my success or failure depending on how long I live, rather than on how I live. Of course I want to live a long time, but if it's short, I don't want to be judged a failure." And she certainly was not a failure, in her five year battle she begins to practice something she calls passionate equanimity: "to be fully passionate about all aspects of life, about one's relationship with spirit, to care to the depths of one's being but with no trace of clinging or holding, that's what the phrase has come to mean to me. It feels full, rounded, complete, and challenging."


And while you read about her embracing the joy all around her, even as tumors are causing her to go blind and when she can no longer walk up the stairs or even stand, you know there is something remarkable about this healing. It may not have been perfect for her body, but it sure was for her mental and emotional health.


As I said before, this was an incredibly hard book to get though. The passages about the chemo forced me to walk away quite a few times. But by the end of the book, while I was sobbing at the pitch of a flash flood, I was far more able to read and be present with her death, as I took away some lessons about passionate equanimity from her. It is a horribly sad story, but she and Ken embrace it with such joy, even the darkest hours.


I would love to be doing this better, and I think I may be just a bit too close to this illness to, so just read it instead.


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Manny Furious
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April 16, 2010
I'm reading this book for class. It's not my favorite book. I want to like it, for I think it should have something somewhat profound to say about death, dying and the "mystical" experience. But Wilber comes off as being highly impressed by his own ideas... and, from my perspective at least, he seems to misunderstand some of the teachings he's trying to interpret. Or, at least, he picks and chooses the interpretations he likes and manipulates other info so that it fits into his own ideas.


Basically, I personally find the beauty of the descriptions of mystical experiences to be most intense when they're least pretentious. Hence my fascination with Chinese Taoism, Cha'an and Japanese Zen. Highly unpretentious practices/philosophies. Ken and Treya on the hand are highly pretentious. And for a couple of people who are determined to see past the ego, they sure seem to enjoy basking in their own. Everything is "I", "I", "I" and "me", "me", "me". I also find it somewhat humorous that Ken never seems to pass up an opportunity to include a statement from someone calling things like a "genius" or a "man of astounding intellectual breadth", yada, yada, yada, etc.


What I do like about the book is that the love story between Ken and Treya at times is highly touching. Also, the story of Treya's bout with cancer is also touching and heart breaking.


In short, the actual narrative is fairly engaging. It's all the half-baked new-age philosophizing that rubs me the wrong way.


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Tess Martin-Fox
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January 31, 2022
felt like i knew Treya through the reading of this book, and am better off for that.


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Lisa J Shultz
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April 23, 2018
Reading this book took a long time and some effort. Was it worth it in the end? Yes. However, I wish the book was more focused on Treya's life and death than being interrupted in a few chapters by Ken Wilbur's "technical information", as he puts it. That information seemed better suited for another book by itself. So I skipped those sections for the most part as the author himself suggested people could do without missing a thing.


I became exhausted by reading the extensive measures that Treya took to beat her cancer. I don't know how one can endure so many treatments. My own biases for simplicity arose but who am I to judge another's path? I did want to quote Treya from page 343: "My main advice is always to beware being knocked off center by what doctors say (they can be terribly convincing about what they do and terribly closed-minded about non-traditional approaches), to take the quiet time to be clear about what you want and what you are intuitively drawn to, and to make a choice you feel is yours, a choice you can stand by no matter what the outcome. If I die, I have to know it is by my own choices."


I looked up a video of her speaking shortly before she passed away. She said, "Because I can no longer ignore death, I pay more attention to life." I think if readers and myself grasp that line and live it, the arduous dedication to finishing this book is worth it.


By the way, my reviews are usually much shorter. This book and this review took more time than I typically spend in reading and reviewing. Perhaps that says something in and of itself.
end-of-life


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Lauro Chapa
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April 15, 2024
I've never cried this much in my entire life, fuck you. And thanks. I needed it.


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Hanna
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August 31, 2025
trudno mi było ją skończyć ale ogólnie bardzo bardzo piękna książka i warte przeczytania


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Displaying 1 - 10 of 177 reviews

*Kosmic Consciousness by Ken Wilber - Audible.com.au

Kosmic Consciousness by Ken Wilber
 - Speech - Audible.com.au

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/1591791243?ref_=mr_referred_us_au_au






Kosmic Consciousness
By
Ken Wilber
Narrated by
Ken Wilber

4.9
34 ratings



About this listen


The Ken Wilber Sessions - An Unprecedented Audio Learning Experience

Before the birth of the universe, there existed your Original Face, the limitless Self that has been present throughout the unfolding of inert matter into life - and that continues to dwell within us at every level of consciousness. Where is this grand evolution taking us, and how can each of us participate in it more fully? On Kosmic Consciousness, Ken Wilber invites you to find out. Since the first publication of his groundbreaking ideas at the age of 23, Ken Wilber has sought to bring together the world's far-ranging spiritual teachings, philosophies, and scientific truths into one coherent and all-embracing vision.

 This "integral" map of the Kosmos (the universe that includes the physical cosmos as well as the realms of consciousness and Spirit) offers an unprecedented guide to discovering your highest potentials. 

Now, this legendary author invites you to discover these insights in his first full-length audio learning course. In 10 fascinating sessions, Wilber pursues questions especially relevant to spiritual seekers: What are the most effective tools for "jumping" to the next level in your spiritual, creative, and cognitive development? Does prayer work? How do women and men experience consciousness differently? Is subtle energy real and, if so, how do we harness it? Why is developing "witness consciousness" so crucial for self-realization? Can we cultivate infinite love by loving one, finite person? What, exactly, does "kosmic consciousness" feel like? One of our greatest possibilities, teaches Wilber, is "to balance and harmonize our experiences at whatever stage of growth we are in - and to deepen our capacity for compassion, consciousness, and care."

PLEASE NOTE: When you purchase this title, the accompanying reference material will be available in your My Library section along with the audio.©2007 Ken Wilber (P)2007 Ken Wilber
===

KEN WILBER -ISRAEL/PALESTINE NOV- 2023


KEN WILBER -ISRAEL/PALESTINE NOV- 2023

Raquel Torrent Guerrero
2,766 views  Premiered Nov 24, 2023
In this interviewed proposed by Raquel Torrent, as a "Call for Peace", trying to put some Consciousness to the terrible situation, Ken Wilber, one of the best philosophers and thinkers of our time, talks about Evolution and how human beings are in the midst of the down wave of an  evolving process.
====
Transcript


hello my name is Rael torrent psychologist integral psychotherapist
and transpersonal guide we are here today because I felt an overwhelming
call to action when the Ukrainian Devastation started and yet the only thing I did was
to pray now with the Terrors of the humanitarian
catastrophe which is taking place in the Palestinian Gaza strep that many are
calling a broadcasted genocide I feel the human responsibility
of doing what I can to unite my voice to the choir who is actually making a call
for peace I want to do it from the level and
discipline that I best know and I cannot Envision a better
person to make this call than my mentor and friend Mr Ken Wilbur one of the best
philosophers and thinkers of our time a real activist of the spirit founder of
the integral Theory and writer of almost 30 books translated to more than 20
languages hello Ken my dear thank you very much you
doing thank you very much for responding to this call for peace and by accepting
this interview hello of course
sure so um Can which would you say that are the real causes of the conflict
between Israel and Palestine which has provoked this unacceptable atrocity that
the people from gasa are experiencing and that represents a real humanitarian
crisis do you think it's something historic or political economical or
religious yeah um well all of those because we need to take an integral
approach and so historically we see this disjuncture
going back well almost 10,000 years um
because it was about 10,000 Years BC that the Israelis started getting
this idea that quote This Land Is My Land God gave this land to me and so the
Israeli people have always had a feeling of ownership of that
land now when Muslim Arab approach camey
in both the Israeli spiritual orientation and the
Muslim Arab orientation both of them tended to be
fundamentalists and that's very very theread most religions have at least two
forms one is fundamentalist and one is Mystical the fundamentalist believes in
mythological forms and ideas so it believes in Zeus and Apollo and
Aphrodite and Jupiter Mars and so on um
and all of those of course are mythological beings and the ideas
connected to those mythological beings are mythological beliefs mythological
ideas yeah and that's what most of the world's religions come from so Christian it
believes that there is literally a biological Son Of An Almighty God are
you kidding me I mean I you got to be kidding me so
um there's all of that mythology on the Christian side um and then there are
occasional Christian
Mystics
oh we got caught I your voice went away caught in
what he called a cave of reality and the real sun light of
reality is in back of us casting the light through Us in to make shadows on
the back of the cave and we're all addicted to the shadows in the back of the cave we don't have any idea that
they're just Shadows that the real realities exist beyond the Shadows and
more with the real Sun so
um that problem is when you have two
mythological forms of religion
opposed to each other that's can lend to a great deal of violence and
antagonism and aggression um because among other things
the Arabs believe that their land is actually theirs and and they can carve
out of a part of that land for themselves and the Israelis are like no
God gave us that land um this great mythological being who looked all over
the world and decided that he would plunk his one and only son down to a
very small tribe in a very dry part of
the mid East a part that doesn't have any oil by the way um talk about bad
luck um and that through various historical forces
became major religion of the West um
and another religion grew up in the west which was the Islamic and it had a great deal of
initial influence there was Islamic empire and the
um belief in in Allah became almost as widespread as the
belief in Jehovah although they're both of the same believability as Zeus or
Apollo or Aphrodite I mean they're just Mythic imagination and
reforms and those again are different from the mystics that have a direct
experience of what they generally call a ground of all
being and there is that's a very real metaphysical concept of ground an
infinite ground of all being the reality of all manifestation the reality of the
entire universe um and that's a very real
metaphysical concept and it answers very real metaphysical questions like if
everything has a cause and most things do are caused by something then what
causes the first cause well there has to be something that's not itself the cause
and that's the ground of all being um so that's a very real concept and what's
more there are Mystics have direct
experiences of this ground of all being and so they feel one with the entire
universe and that's a very real mystical experience
and it's most of the founders of the great religions
including Jesus Christ and Mohammad and
Abraham um they have had some type of
this direct Unity experience yeah so I am the father or one um or Jesus Christ
clearly believes that he is one with this ultimate ground of all being the
father and several other founding religious Founders um but mostly their
followers fell into the fundamentalist Mythic forms of that belief because not
everybody has a direct experience of this Ultimate Reality and so they just
think about it and when they think about it they use the earliest forms of
thought which develop in childhood around four or five or six years old and
they're all mythological forms of thinking so you get this fundamentalist
belief structure that grows up um and
when you put those fundamentalist belief structures together and they
disagree on the form of the mythological God that they feel is most real so Allah
versus Jehovah then you've got the grounds for a historically
prolonged violent conflict um and that's the historical
difference the political difference has come down to the politics of
ownership this land is my land God gave this land to me and the Muslims are no
wait a minute all are gave this land to us oh yeah well take that take that and
they go out it um and those are the political reasons on the economic side
the Muslims for whatever reason have done very little to develop a vibrant
economy um and whereas isra Israelis Jewish people have very aggressive
engaged in economic forms that are very profitable and so Jews are worldwide
fairly wealthy people and when you get wealth versus
poverty that's another form of conflict particularly the poor people feel like
the wealthy people are oppressing them and that's the basic form
of political belief in the west is called an oppression
Paradigm because what happens when you have somebody who's very
poor they feel that they are being oppressed or held down or that somehow
somebody else is taking all the money and that would be the Jews in this case
so you have victims and the oppressed and then you have the
oppressors and you can be one or the other you can't be both and this was actually made into a
very elaborate Doctrine by Carl Marx um where he saw all of history as a
conflict between oppressors and oppressed and the oppressors generally
are oppressing the poor people and the disadvantaged and so on and so that has
become a deep source of conflict for various groups people and
particularly the Muslims and the Jews um and and can can uh what about
this H reality that during many many uh
occasions the Israelites have been like um uh getting onto the
Palestines like in conflicts with the Palestines all the time uh historically
you know like uh really getting on to them uh because they want something from
them it's clear I am not a politician at all or or even a h historian uh at all
and yet um I think that the Palestine had a land and the British
divided their land to give it to the Israelites so
that's this is something which the Palestines feel like they have been
taken off something which theirs no right well that simp ly adds to their
sense of being oppressed taken advantage of um
victimized um and there is truth to that truth to that right yeah and that's a
problem but the problem is compounded by the fact that members of
like let's say Hamas really have psychological
problems
um anger hatred aggression jealousy Envy
attack mode um many Arab
Muslims have this personality disorder where they go out they very
willing to kill men women children and babies I mean on October 7th of this
month Hamas attacked Israel and took 36
hostages including babies women men and
children um and so one of the main problems we have
is a psychotherapeutic problem that affects
Hamas more than it affects the Jews Jews of course had their own Psychotherapy
problems and got do you find do you really find acceptable what the Jews are
doing now with the because it's a real humanitarian crisis what they are
creating that because um I am understand that they want to kind of respond to
what Hamas did and yet the atrocity that
the Civil U people you know the CI the Civil um um um how do you say that the
the citizens you know of Palestine now which are just civils children and and
uh women are suffering so much without water without hospitals
the more than 60% of hospitals are now smashed
completely I mean right well again it's a difficult problem because to take the
hospitals for example one of the reasons they're not functioning is that very
soon for at least 10 years now in 1014 the ne New York Times And The
Washington Post both reported that Hamas is using
hospitals for their main headquarters so that when Israel attacks
them they're GNA kill civilians and then they can Hamas can
throw its hands back and say Well they're killing all our women and children well get the [ __ ] out of the
hospital is there cure for that and Israel it's true that there are women
and children suffering but it's because they're being used as shields for
Hamas now that's just that's the opinion of the New York Times And The Washington
Post I'm not making this up it's not my particular Prejudice or
Viewpoint um but I think there is some truth to that um because Hamas it can be
demonstrated that they locate their headquarters in hospitals in schools
among civilian populations I I I understand that Ken
and yet do you find equal do you find equal because you were talking about
psychotherapeutic problems from the Muslims side what about the Jew side now
taking the water and the food and not permit the people to go down to the
South to escape all these things don't you think that is a psychotherapeutic
problem as well well yes but what do you do with the standard Jewish
procedure of not attacking deliberately stopping all attacks during particular
times of each and every day so that those people Muslims who want to leave
the area can do so without being attacked there they have not done that
they are not doing that very easily and they have until they have accepted to do
that which is with with what they are negotiating right now they have first
than that they have avoided the possibility of entering humanitarian
help for the people which was inside of those blockages so I find that
psychotherapeutically crazy as well because you know it's like really trying
to make that people dies directly and they are not from Hamas they are just
Palestinians you know so that's what I don't find like s
I don't find that like um uh they say they want to get rid of Hamas but you
know yes terrorism is not acceptable in any form that's for sure and yet don't
you think that it's also an ideology that it's it's they try to get
rid of an ideology more than anything well sure um
but let me get try to understand you are you saying that Hamas is not a terrorist
organization oh no I am saying that they are very terrorist and what the ones
which are not terrorist are the civilians women and children which have
been taking off the water the food and the possibility to escape for many many
days and they have been suffering and dying in the streets because they didn't
have anything to eat or anything to drink that is really insane you know
because it it's not normal I mean one thing is I don't want Hamas to be a
terrorist anymore I am not going to permit that this is going to be repeated in my
land correct I am understand that and yet to kill all those people thinking
that they are Hamas is not recognizing that they are not Hamas they are just
Palestinians right well but do you not believe that Hamas frequently
headquarters among the civilian population in hospitals and schools and
places like that because we have evidence that Hamas doeses that on a regular basis and so if you go ahead and
attack Hamas and civilians are killed what do you do about that yeah it's not
an easy task that's for sure it's not is it is a real difficult situation that's
for sure and yet the the suffering I mean when we see those streets are
absolutely devastated and all the women and children more than 12,000 children have
been killed it's a lot I mean it it is really when you see it from the outside
it's really terrible imagine from the inside families whole families cut off
without a house without anything with this um um
reasoning of I want to feel hamama Hamas will not be killed because it's an
ideology and well right as far as I can tell the blame lies more or less equally
with the Palestinians and the Jews yeah yeah because Hamas does
intentionally infect civilian areas and then Israel tries to fight back of
course civilians are attacked um but I have seen at least some moves
on Israel's part to withhold attacking the Hamas headquarters for
certain designated periods and civilians that's what they are
negotiating that's what they are negotiating now let's see if they accept
that the only thing is that it is a real difficult situation because it seems
that Israel has like a an agenda a heating agenda that they want you know
to really get into the sea and finally get you know some kind of an exit to the
Sea and uh anyway I don't know what the situation is not easy and the only thing
I know is that I see this catastrophe humanitarian catastrophe as a real
unacceptable situation that we will go to the following
questions and we you will tell me what do you think about you know what the
westerns are doing okay now um from an integral perspective how would you
define what's happening and which would be an integral solution that politicians
could imp well I think one of the key factors is
that politicians have to start thinking integrally and they have to start
speaking integrally and that means
speaking ingly politically historically
psychologically economically sociologically
religiously and taking all these different perspectives and making sure
that they're representing all of them and that sounds a little
complicated um but it's it's something that if things are going
well among communities they are thinking
integral that's why there are no major problems s arising between
them because if they're thinking interally and political terms and on
economic terms and on religious terms and on sociological terms then they're
looking from all perspectives and they're making sure that all perspectives are included in any
decision they make and when both sides are doing that you're not going to get
in trouble you can't for sure and yet do you think that politicians are willing
to learn those integral perspectives well that's the thing how much suffering
can they stand because most politicians frankly can stand a lot of suffering because
they bring on a lot of suffering because they don't think or talk ingly they're
not taking all perspectives into account they're taking just their perspective
into account God gave me this land this land is mine I'll kill you if you don't
get off it and then the other side says well oh yeah this land is my land and
God gave this land to me and I'm gonna kill you if you don't get off and then
there they go and they're just at each other's throats around the clock and
once you think you've got the right to attack somebody else then
that means you've got the right to do anything you can torture them you can
murder them you can hang them you can strangle them it doesn't matter and
that's why that's the and TV cameras are always there to catch that action oh
look at what they're doing to those poor civilian people or oh look at the
horrible things that are being done to children and babies
and all of that goes out on the news and the small percentage of each
side that's trying to include all of these perspectives and to do the right
thing by all of them those don't get any attention and so what we get is this
brutal conflict over the Gaza Strip and it's just horrifying what's going on
politicians you remember when when um um
Clinton and Obama were kind of integrally aware and it seemed that
something was going to be ending and and something was going to be starting and
it even read some of my work he knew about yeah now all that it seems that it
has deluded unfortunately and it's like we have gone
back again into blue meem right don't
you think that we are backing to Amber and or or or even before because it's
like oh my God we are again looking into the right extreme wings and and not
thinking socially just me me me me me and I mean it's really disgusting well
that's yeah that's exactly right and that's what happens when you get two
sides of what turns out to be an argument because they both have certain
fundamental beliefs that disagree with each other because they're fundamentally
Mythic beliefs and when you have Mythic beliefs
at each other's throat there's no reality that you can appeal to that will
resolve that because myth is not reality myth obscures reality myth is hiding
reality so I mean if you're actually going to believe that there's a guy walking
around who's the one and only biological son of the one and only creator of the
entire universe and there's only one of them the Son of God well I'm sorry
that's not reality that's not anything near a reality and so when both sides are full
of those types of thoughts there's nothing you can appeal to that will end
that conflict because if you are going to believe your myth and you're going to
believe your myth you're going to believe in your Jehovah and you're going to believe in your Allah well there's
nothing that's going to make you give up that belief and so wait no my Jehovah's right
and your Allah is bad no my Allah is good and your Jehovah is the source of
all evil well oh yeah and then you pick up your guns and your knives and your
swords and your torture mechanism and you go at each other and there's nothing
that can be done that will stop that yet and yet don't you think that Jehovah or
Allah have something in common which could be kind of like the Common Thread
let's say the common Unity for a solution could it be which will be
Allah has love and wants love and Jehovah as well so I will understand
that if they Center in love love for people love for life you
know respect for life because love is also respect so don't you think that love is
the only answer well if you're Mystic it
is but if you're not a Mystic it isn't and the reason it isn't is if I believe
that Jehovah is The One and Only God of all things and you believe no not
Jehovah it's Allah and Jehovah gave me this hunk of
land and I want you off of it and oh no Allah gave me this chunk of land I want
you off of it well everybody that believes in Jehovah
or Allah is not believing in love because if if you have your firm
belief that Jehovah is The One and Only God and you're facing somebody who
believes in Allah and you're both fighting over a pieace of land and you
believe Jehova gave this land to you and I believe Allah gave this land to me
then we're not going to love each other we're going to hate each other you won't
get off my land I hate you oh no you won't get off my land I hate you and
religion is the source of as much hatred as it is
Love Now obviously some people that believe in religion do have a sense of
love but not everybody um many people that believe
that Jehovah is my one and only God hate people that don't accept their
belief and that's the problem more Wars have been caused by
religion than by any other factor in human history yeah and it it's just it's
terrible but that's the way human beings are um and that's why I put for this the
Deep causes of this conflict I put fundamentalist religion right at the
core of the problem and I I think that's
historically undeniable and it's a shame it it is a
shame it is above all because then query's love you know right and if you
have a mystical experience it's it is of love and love means a
Oneness with something if I whether I love ice cream I want to become one with
ice cream or whether I love my dog and I want to hug my dog whether I love you
and I want to become on with you um and that's wonderful um so a mystical love if all
religions were mystically loving yes there wouldn't be any War
because nobody would want to hurt anybody else you want to love them you want to embrace them you want to become
one with them and then that's great but the percentage of religious Believers
that are actual Mystics is relatively small it yeah it's about
5% and so that's not enough to even even in the Catholics you know that well
Christians um mysticism has only been accepted like 2 years ago yeah that's
true mysticism has been kind of denied yeah you couldn't have a direct
experience of God no that was forbidden who are you to have a direct experience
of God no no no no you have to come through me which I am the
priest yeah and that's the way religions went most World Famous religions started
with a mystical experience yes very powerfully felt by a single
person and then they taught it to their followers and not all the followers had
that experience and so they started repeating it in Mythic forms yeah and
they let their own self agrement self-aggression take over and that's
what got spread as religion and that's just love and dead
that's right and that's one of the truly sad sad realities of History yeah of
human history very very sad so can due to the excess of information
and devastating images that we see about this war we have death in the soup while
we are having lunch like televised horror as we said
before so how do you think this affects human consciousness will our ethics and
moral loosens in the long run because of such exposure to violence or will in
increase judgment repulse and or fear and what about disinformation and fake
news also yeah what all of these have in
common including our shadow material is that they're all distortions of
reality so where we should feel love we don't see love we see hatred or self
arring M or selfishness or something that's not a real reality it's not the
fundamental reality which is love but again that's not the primary
experience that most humans have or they love occasionally they love a little bit
their girlfriend their boyfriend or whatever but it's not a powerful over
overwhelming mystical unity and so they all end up being to
the extent that they turn into hatred and self-aggrandisement jealousy and all of
those they end up being distortions of reality they're just not
fundamental realities they're distortions and they spread like
crazy the distortions of when we see this in Television over and
over again and we are eating while we are seeing a baby cut in two and things
like these type of Horrors okay what do you think that that how in which way do
you think that this affects our Consciousness and our morals and where
our ethics are going to go where are our morals are going going to go well who
they're going to go is down the toilet because when you see repeated
like babies cutting two and it just eats away that's your own moral and ethical
sense because who's doing that and how are they allowed to do that why is it
happening and why am I always seeing it and it just slowly eats away that's your
ethical stance and that's one of the horrors of
a history that is fundamentally lacking love and is promoting self promotion and
self aggrandisement self-aggression and so on um and unfortunately that is the
story of history and it's war after war after War
one historian calculated that for every one year of Peace in humankind's history
there have been 13 years of war now just think about that and think
about the constant influence of this war like Sensations that we're getting and
it's interrupted every now and then by one year of Peace oh thank you very much
that's wonderful I can't thank my God enough for that one year it's just
terrible it is it is it is there what that means is not everybody's
perspective is being honored very few perspectives are being
honored just my perspective and my land and get off of my land or I'll kill you
and that's what 13 years of human history have been about for every one
year of peace and it's just horrifying but it's the truth and it's just something that
human beings have to deal with and that's why it is so difficult for
evolution to keep on going because you know it's a regression all the time we
evolve and then we regress and then we evolve and then we regress and it's like
evolution is trying to really push it on and it's not easy that's why we are only
five or s% of the population the human population which are really you know
trying to take everyone there and it's so difficult because when it seems that
we are really going a little bit then again it's it's impressive it's really
impressive um how do you see the role of the United
States and Europe that are playing in this horrendous conflict or crisis or
War whatever we want to call it Israel Palestine and what else do you think
that the United States or Europe could be doing in this
situation well um I hate to sort of be repetitive but
the one thing that all world leaders need to do is actually
lead and that means they have to be an example to all of their
followers and that means they have to take into account the perspectives of
virtually everybody and that means they take an integral
viewpoint it and it's it's easy enough to say but
you can also teach an integral Viewpoint you can teach well there's
this perspective and there's this perspective and there's this perspective you can start with the four quadrants
you cannot teach to the ones that do not want to hear right that's right and
that's the problem that's a problem but and so but the question has to do with
they say in general what I've heard is that the European community and the
westerns in general are not doing enough to like we are like holding back
like the United States which always has been very uh helping you know the the
the peace and helping you know the oppress and helping now it's kind of like this
and Europe is kind of like this and nobody is really doing
anything to to to stop this catastrophe this that's catastrophe that's true you
go you see that you go people are like this that means I'm not g to look at it
the way you see it I'm not going to take Europe's perspective I'm not going to
take another State's perspective I'm just
not and so we refuse to take an integral
Viewpoint and that's something we actually do we actually refuse it
because we all have the capacity to take these many perspectives we can all look
at the world through four major quadrants or four major perspectives and
each of those quadrants has a different perspective so we actually have eight zones of different perspectives and we
can adopt any one of those zones fairly easily and if we know that there are
people out there that are looking at the world through these different perspectives that are represented in
four quadrants and eight zones then we know what perspectives we should take if
we want to see the world the way others are seeing and when we see the world through
a different perspectives then that'll be part of our leadership because we say oh I have to
talk to that perspective oh and I have to talk to that person and their perspective and I have to talk to that
person and each of them are seeing the world differently and I know that and I
can take their perspective and when I do that I'll I'll talk to them and I'll
provide leadership for them and they'll trust me because I can see the world the
way they're seeing the world and so if we have real leadership and that's
something that I think people intuitively respect like when we see an
American running for president and we listen to them talk or debate we can
tell the ones that have a very wide perspective we can just feel it
that they're looking at the world the way I'm looking at the world or they're
trying to and they're talking to that and I can spot that and I like
that I think that's one of the thing that was so impressive about John
Kennedy for example is he really talked to people and people
adored him he was just loved um and occasionally somebody will
come on the political scene that has that capacity and we really respond to
them so it is it can be done and what of course in my wildest
pipe dreams what I would like to see is a school for politicians where they can
actually learn how to take on these different perspectives and learn
I proposed I proposed that in
1985 oh EXC a school for politicians and yet because I don't have any money to
promote such a thing I never arrived anywhere because you need to have money
to make marketing and to really let the politicians know that you exist
right that's right and unfortunately that's not something that
happens and another problem that we're dealing with we' talked about the
psychotherapeutic contributions to this problem on the side of both Hamas and
Israel they both have psychotherapeutic issues yes and that
means issues with anger hatred aggression jealous Jey Envy attack modes
and so on and you actually have to address those Shadow issues yes so that
people can learn oh I see that I have that I don't want to have that I will
stop having that they and we have to put pretty much all of Hamas and all of
Israel through a Psychotherapy session or several and
without that they're not the individual Soldier who's killing the baby or
stabbing the woman or shooting people they're not going to stop doing that if
they've still got the impulse arising to do that and that puts an enormous strain
on this problem and it's one of the reason that the Israeli Arab problem is so recal and so
unyielding and has been around for so long and shows
no chance of resolving that there neither side is
willing to do what's necessary to give it up and that is just an impossible
psychotherapeutic mess um and I understand 100% what you
say and I agree and um there is an issue that let's see what do
you think about which is the energetic issue like for example when people look
at the TV and they see all this horror right and they go into the reflection of
their own shadow when they see that right they judge how horrible they are I hate these
ones I hate the others I and all the reflection of the Shadow
comes in in oh I am fearful or am I going to die or they're going to kill me
or whatever okay so it's like a reflection of their of the own shadow
that they see so I always say let's see what do you think I always say don't do
that because if you do that you are adding
energetically the same thing thing that you are receiving therefore don't do
what don't do what don't judge don't do be fearful
don't do hate do you know all these negative things that people send to
Netanyahu or to Hamas or to whatever I say don't do that because you are adding
negativity to negativity that's negativity to the square
so if you don't do that if you are able to see that and send
love you are changing the energy you are
transmuting at least the energy giving a chance
energetically to that netan jahu to that Hamas to
receive waves of love and if they do receive waves of love maybe
sometime they will get a little bit of that and a neuron will open to light and
then they will say oh I'm not going to kill this woman or they will say uh I'm
going to take psychotherapy uh or they will do something different yet if we don't do that of
every time we see this in the TV if we don't send love and we keep on sending hatred and
judgment and fear and all these negative things we are contributing to the
negativity of the conflict and of the war and of the problem and we are
killing the woman of the baby and and we are responsible then of maintaining the
craziness would you say that and what that really implies is virtually every
person who's involved in what you're saying needs some form of
psychotherapy because it's usually only in a psychotherapeutic situation where a
person will look at their negative netive feelings and in a sense judge them as
negative correctly judge them as negative and then seek to replace that
negative with a positive so if they feel hate they'll learn to replace it with
love they feel jealousy they'll learn to embrace it with
appreciation and so on and it's in the psychotherapeutic setting that they
actually learn to see see and make those changes and that's what Psychotherapy is
changing all of your negatives for positives and that means you have to
recognize all your negatives your jealousy your envy your hatred you're
you know on and on and you have to recognize them when they come up in
regard to therapists and you have to talk about them and then you have to say okay I don't want to Express that hatred
I want to feel love and you actually practice replacing hatred with love and
when you complete that process fairly well that's the end of psychotherapy
you're finished you you've completed the course you can get out of here now um
but that's what's so important about Psychotherapy is it it really is almost
the only setting where human beings practice replacing negativity with
positivity yeah and that's no matter what form you're working with Freudian Yan G stal it doesn't matter they all
aim at doing that that and that's what makes it such an especially important
Endeavor in which way do you think that Western Civilization has contributed to
the the hatred that radical Islam has against westerners in which way and why
would you say that many people are also against the Jews and why also the West
criticizes Muslims in general right well
what the Western contribution has been to this ownership
mentality of somebody saying God gave this land to
me this is my land you have no right to be here ownership no yeah and and that's
just bad that ownership mentality is just it divides the earth
up in the little segments and puts Hors on each one and the owners don't like
any of the other owners and it's just s and for whatever reason that got a
real start in the west and of course culminated in like a Marxist notion of
ownership is capitalism and all of the things that are wrong with that
supposedly um and as for why would you say that many people are also against
the Jews that's just standard anti-Semitism and that goes back back at
least five or 6,000 years in the west and it got its start with beliefs such
as Jews killed Jesus and they're worth hating that we
don't want anything to do with them and also Jews were allowed
to bank money and to loan money and many
people saw that is evil and Jews were just the source of all of that evil um
so there are a lot of causes to anti-Semitism but it's a very well
recognized human fault and it just seems to spring up
almost wherever Jews are because some of these ideas about loaning money or
killing Christ or something always pop up with them and and each of those ideas
lends a hate hatred or negativity to the atmosphere and Jews are the cause of
that so we hate them and that's just the way that goes um and then and why the
West criticizes Muslims in general that can be
traced almost almost all forms of hatred can be traced to some minor minor
truth so you can make a case that Jews
killed Christ it was the Jewish leaders that predominantly brought
charges against Jesus and turned them into the Romans so you can make a small
truth out of that case and the small truth from the
Muslims comes from the Quran because large portions of the
Quran instill War lordship they instill a worship of
war and fighting and killing and that's
I mean Mohammad notoriously went to those sections when
he felt problem seized and he would get on his warlord ship horse and go out and
kill people um and people reacted to
that they didn't like that warriorship part of Muslim
code um and again it was based on a small amount of
truth but it was a truth they could dependably turn to and find good reason
to hate those War loving Muslims um and I mean and I I say we're
what we're looking at when we talk about these negatives are just a list of the
number of negatives that humans are open to and then when we look at those what
we find is that history is just dominated by those negatives they give
us 13 years of war every one year of peace and that's just that that's a very
sad commentary on the Human Condition absolutely absolutely absolutely you
know regarding the the Westerner seen by the Muslims uh don't you think that they see
the west and and also I think Russians as well not only the Muslims but also
Russians for example they see the west and they hate the West for reasons maybe
like not a consistent uh and
maintained uh argument and and Manner and and politics and because it seems
that the West all of a sudden wants this and now wants this and it they are we
are not maintaining as westerners like a sound consistency and a sound uh reality
that can be our Western truth no we are
divided we are fragmented everyone thinks differently so there
is I think they see in US little
truth um little something that they can say okay that's what they think we like
it or not but that's what they think no it's like they get crazy because one day
we say one thing and another day we say another thing and we pardon the the the
the the Deb of this but not of this and and so they don't go where to go they
don't know where with what where to stand with us no don't you think that
that has also something to do with the hatred of the Muslims toward the west
and and Russians yeah um in large part it's because the West
does have so many different ideas and it's it's sometimes amazing
that they can call all of them being West because the only thing should we
call like that by democracy what in the world then is democracy if democracy
doesn't have a real truth to it and if he doesn't have a real principles of
behavior and thoughts and and manners you know that's what it doesn't hold on
it's true that we are very large population let's say and yet if we are
democratic why aren't we more
united yeah um and about the only thing that the West has in common is that it's
been fairly economically successful so it's come down to it's a
fairly wealthy economic system and that's more or less true there are plenty of poor
people in the west and plenty of hungry people but it's been the hunger in the
west has been reduced much of it in the last 30 years to where it's less than
10% of the population and that's amazing and that's
largely because we are fairly wealthy and we can afford to pay off
poverty and but that's about it um not
everybody believes in the same philosophy not everybody believes in the
same approach to politics certainly not everybody believes in the same approach
to religion um so that's a real problem for the West um
and um there was a century the 17th and
18th century where virtually every Western country was at war with every
other Western country and it was just you know not
only the Hundred Years War The War of the Roses but it was just the French versus the German the English
versus the P um Hungary versus Poland I mean
everybody was at everybody's throats yeah that was not exactly a
unified condition um so it's funny that the West
has nonetheless emerged as a fairly unified
place um and um although it still doesn't have a
unified philosophy or anything like that uh so
um that's just the history of the West um and we still call it the US and
that's makes no sense but it's very unreal the truth right without any doubt
can we are in a moment of terrible Despair and horror regarding peace and
commitment to Human Rights and people's well-being so what's your integrated
personal intuition and gut feeling about the future of this escalation of
violence and absurdity that doesn't really show any evolution of human
consciousness at all yeah um I think it's definitely a close
call um and it very well might be that we go through um a period of increasing
violence and aggression and um more even more
yeah um but in the long run we do have Evolution on our side
because everything that goes from moment to moment transcends and includes the previous
moment and that transcend and include is involving principles of love
and inclusion and care and concern
and that's why if we look at the Long Haul of Western history we see a
dramatic increase in degrees of belongingness and
care and loving um the West 2,000 years
ago was a very barbaric and belligerent and at War
place um Roman Empire everywhere um picking on everybody and
and killing people left and right um
and that's been our history but each year it seems to get a little bit
better and a little bit better and a little bit better um so when we get to
the 20th century we have three major Wars World War I World War II and the Korean
War and then if you have Vietnam and so on um but those all were ended fairly
peacefully and the countries came back together and we move forward so I sort
of see a continuation of that kind of pattern of there being possibilities of
more Wars and more aggression but in the long haul we get
over them and love Peaks out and Care
Peaks out and evolution evolves and that's one of the amazing
things about evolution is it's an inherent drive to
betterness and that's an actual force in the universe the evolutionary Drive is a
real existing physical Force it's like gravity and
electromagnetism and heat and love that's correct and those are actual
physical existing reality forces and because those forces are an
inherent part of the universe we're going to continue
evolving things are going to in some broads set get better and better and
better um and and Lord only knows the
impact that our increasingly sophisticated
technology is going to play in this um
but technology certainly has a capacity to increase the betterment of
humankind and so we've got that working for us as well um but there can always
be ups and downs in this uh and I don't expect those to go
away uh so could could we say that all which is happening its part of
evolution yeah I do um both the good and the
bad yeah yeah so could you uh dare to
give a date on the better men of
humanity well I mean if we look at the overall history of of
life I mean we did start out as single cell one cell
organisms and and look at and it went to multicellular organisms go so
far and and that went to um fish and
amphibians and then reptiles and then mammals and then humans and then a whole
string of human life that got progressively more sophisticated and smarter and better and more loving and
more caring and for certain periods of that more belligerent and more war
loving and then they we go through Wars and drop them and then come back together and more loving and
caring um I would say um until we get to a fairly paradisical
state that I would give it about 100
years okay so we will not see it no I don't I don't think so I think
we'll see glimmers of it because as we're continuing to move towards it and
then we have little regressions and then we bump down and then we go move back up
and so as we'll see several move back up
phases as we move towards the paradisical state so I think we'll see a
couple more those oh thank God at least we have some hope right
that before we die hey you know I always say that the ones that do have mystical
experiences we are very lucky yes we are very lucky because I
cannot imagine how life would be without
this deep experience of something else
right you know so I really thank you know my inner experience I really thank
it and to you to you that you have put you have been so wonderful with all your
books and your love to give us words for all that you know I really I'm really
grateful because now I can even you know like name it and put names to it and and
recognize it and and say yes I have that yes I seen that yes I hold that in
myself and yes I experience these four quadrants and yes I feel them emerging
in me that's why I say you know to the people in my consultation or to anyone
that wants to listen to me it's like hey do this effort of loving loving
everything whether is positive or negative energy just do the effort
because it's G to bring you back a lot it's G to give you back much better
results than if you hate or if you judge or if you feel all the time fearful or
hatred right so anyway would would you like to
add something else cand deer like a call for peace or
whatever whatever oh I just like to leave people with the general notion
that things are headed in a positive good direction we are
evolving and as we look at overall Evolution we see ups and downs we do and
so if we go through a slight down period that's okay it's not going to be forever
it's going to turn around and head back up and that it's going in that direction
and it's going up and up and up um and I can only imagine what increasing
technology is going to do for that particularly when we get general
intelligence artificial intelligence that I mean we have robots that can talk
to us and understand us and vice versa I mean that would be great oh
yeah I think like we have telephones now you know mobile phones we will have a
robot in our home so that we can talk with someone that we think we feel that
understands us because I think that is one of the most desire deep desires of
human beings is to have someone that may understand what we are
saying I think that's right um and so
that's just gonna continue and get greater and greater and greater um we've
seen artificial intelligence just explode in the last decade or two um
it's really doing an En enormous number of things including many things that we
thought were not possible like translating well between languages oh
yeah that's impressive and it's it's very impressive what's happening on
the it's takes off my job because I was
a translator so it took my job and yet
it's part of evolution right it's part of well okay now I dedicate myself to
something else right I have to look for another you know like task for me right
I will have more time to meditate more
right okay my dear super thank you I really appreciate this time with you as
always it's been a real pleasure to be with you yeah it's been bless you thanks a lot
and above all to leave us with this sensation of Nothing is for nothing in
the sense of everything has a reason and evolution has its own reason
so thank you thank you for being with us today okay thank you byebye bye bye love
bye


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