2025/12/12

A principal's Brief But Spectacular take on bringing hospitality to educ...



PBS NewsHour
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Dec 12, 2025  Brief but Spectacular
Joseph Martinez is the longtime school principal of Carpenter Community Charter in Los Angeles. Families know him as the principal who literally picks up trash in the morning and dresses up for school plays, but also as the steady hand through fires, immigration fears and lockdown drills. Here's his Brief But Spectacular take on bringing hospitality to education. 

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Transcript


AMNA NAWAZ: Joseph Martinez  is the longtime principal of  
Carpenter Community Charter School in  Los Angeles. And families know him as  
the principal who literally picks up trash in  the morning and dresses up for school plays,  
but also as the steady hand through fires,  immigration fears, and lockdown drills.
In tonight's Brief But Spectacular,  
Martinez makes the case for why public  education remains a smart investment.
JOSEPH MARTINEZ, Principal, Carpenter  Community Charter: Public education, to me,  
is equivalent to our democracy. If we don't  have a strong public education system that  
will accept everyone, that will be competitive  with all the private schools in the area, then  
I don't see our democracy thriving  as it has for the past 250 years.
I am the principal of Carpenter  Community Charter in Studio City,  
Los Angeles, California. I'm responsible  for approximately 900 students daily.  
Whatever it takes to engage children at an  elementary school, I am game for it. I have  
been everything from Elliott from "E.T.,"  Willy Wonka. I have been Woody, the cowboy,  
setting the tone and embrace elementary  school for all that it has to offer.
There is no job that is above or below me,  if that's cutting the grass or if that's  
picking up trash. I hope that they  see that everybody has to pitch in,  
that they have to participate in  order for their community to thrive.
So I'm born and raised in Las Vegas, Nevada.  Everybody in my family worked in the service  
industry. My mother and my grandmother both  worked in the kitchens at various hotels. My  
father was a bellman. So I grew up watching  everybody in my family be service-oriented.
As a school administrator in Los Angeles now, I  try to have that same mentality. I think of it as  
a hotel to give everybody the greatest experience  in elementary school that they could have.
One of the reasons why I'm not in private  education is because we accept everyone.  
LAUSD is a sanctuary school district and that  means that any family that enrolls their child  
for school has a safe place for that child  to be at school so that they can learn.
We don't turn anyone away. At all LAUSD public  schools, we have meetings and we have resources  
for immigrant families that are facing a crisis  or any kind of a situation involving ICE.
My father came from Mexico. He did not have  his citizenship until very late in his life.  
So I understand the struggles and the challenges  of immigrant families and their children. I love  
building relationships. I would go visit  my parents when they worked in hotels,  
and I was always amazed at how much of a family  it really was with my mother and the people she  
worked with in the kitchens or my father and  the people he worked with that were all bellmen.
Whatever job I was going to have in the future,  
I wanted to have that. So that's my favorite  part of my job is building community,  
building relationships and building a  support network for our school community.
My name is Joseph Martinez, and this is my Brief  
But Spectacular take on bringing  hospitality to public education.

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The downside of superstar schools

Carpenter Community Charter has almost 1,000 students, a waiting list and a controversy over parents who lie about their addresses to get their children in. But a generation ago, fewer than 50 of Carpenter’s 450 students were from the neighborhood; most were bused in.
 
(Ricardo DeAratanha / Los Angeles Times)

You could say that Carpenter Elementary in Studio City owes its survival to students from other neighborhoods.

A generation ago, their presence kept the campus from being shut down, after local families fled to private schools to avoid Los Angeles Unified’s mandatory busing program. By the time busing ended in 1981, fewer than 50 of Carpenter’s 450 students were children from the neighborhood.

Former Principal Joan Marks spent years going door-to-door, luring locals back with the promise of a school they could be proud of.

Today Carpenter Community Charter has almost 1,000 students. There’s a lottery and a waiting list — and brewing resentment over the suspicion that children from other communities are using fake addresses to attend, filling seats that ought to belong to neighborhood children.

The school has so many students now, there may not be room next fall for all of Studio City’s kindergartners. “We’ll be putting local kids on buses,” said Principal Joseph Martinez, “if we don’t get this sorted out.”

What a turnaround from a time when most of its students were bused in.

Times reporter Stephen Caesar wrote about the school’s dilemma this month, as Carpenter launched a crackdown to root out families who lied about living within the school’s attendance boundaries.

Martinez said preliminary checks suggest that one in 10 Carpenter families may be claiming a false address.

“I totally get why people would do anything to get their child into Carpenter,” the principal said. Its test scores are among the district’s highest. It offers a palette of enrichment classes that many private schools can’t match.

That’s the product of decades of community investment, he said. “This is a school that was supposed to close. The community got involved and kept it going.”

That community involvement is plain to see in the extras that set Carpenter apart: its science center, music program, dance classes and computer lab, PE coach, science specialist and extra teachers to keep classes small.

“Those are not things the school district paid for, but the local residents provided,” Martinez said. The school’s booster club raises about $300,000 each year. “This community is very proud of that. Residents have a sense of ownership here.”

And if you’re not a resident and want to attend? Take your chances in the enrollment lottery. Or pony up about $1.5 million, the price tag on an average local home.

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Carpenter is one of few Los Angeles Unified schools with the power to drive real estate prices up. “To live within the boundaries of Carpenter Charter School in Studio City … is to be the envy of your neighbor,” promises a local real estate website.

And if you can’t live within those boundaries, you might be able to pretend. Martinez spotted two posts on Craigslist from residents offering to sell their addresses to parents trying to fake their way in.

There’s a sort of mythology around elementary schools like this — Ivanhoe in Silver Lake and Wonderland in Hollywood are others — that attracts ambitious young parents, gets everyone donating and volunteering, and makes families at less-spectacular schools wonder what they’re missing.

Part of what accounts for Carpenter’s high achievement is not mysterious at all. It’s not burdened with social and economic problems. Its demographic profile is nothing like a typical Los Angeles school.

Carpenter is 78% white in a district that is 73% Latino. Only 7% of its students are from families poor enough to qualify for free lunch; three-quarters of district students are. And only 5% of its pupils don’t speak English, in a district where one-third of students aren’t fluent English speakers.

But parents insist that something less tangible is more important to its success. “It’s the sense of community,” said Rebecca Silverstein, whose two children — Milo, 9, and Poppy, 6 — raved about their teachers and their campus.

I interviewed them as they walked home from the school with its white picket fence, along one of the narrow streets winding up into the Hollywood Hills.

The school and the community have “a small-town feel,” Silverstein said. “You go to school with your neighbors. Your children play on the same sports teams. You go to a school event and see the family that lives next door.”

But that’s an advantage you can’t re-create when you’re secretly trucking your children in from Van Nuys or Woodland Hills.

::

Silverstein doesn’t want to bad-mouth parents who use a friend’s address, or rent an apartment for a few months so they can produce the proof they need to get their child enrolled.

“I mostly feel bad that other parents have to do that,” she said. “It’s a shame that some of the public schools aren’t good enough, that you would have to go to those lengths to get a good education for your child.”

But Principal Martinez said many parents are incensed. Some wanted a hotline to report offenders. Others emailed anonymously, ratting out children’s classmates.

The practice of faking residency isn’t new, of course. My daughters attended Granada Hills Charter High just after it went charter 10 years ago. So many tips came in about families lying to enroll, school employees sometimes resorted to following students home, questioning neighbors or interviewing landlords.

“Nine of 10 times, when information is presented, the families admit ‘That’s not where we’re living.’ And they’re terribly embarrassed, very ashamed,” said Granada Hills’ executive director, Brian Bauer. “It’s a bit of a sad state, the few options that families feel they have.”

When families flock to those superstar schools, that’s a loss to the schools they leave behind. So the good get better, but the district gets more lopsided over time.

“If people are that motivated to do all these things to enroll a child in a school that’s not in their neighborhood,” Carpenter’s Martinez said, “just imagine if they put that energy in their local school and got involved to make change happen there.”


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Carpenter Community Charter School

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Carpenter Community Charter School
Location
Map
3909 Carpenter Avenue, Studio City, California 91604
Coordinates34°8′28″N 118°23′35″W
Information
TypePublic
MottoCultivating young minds for a modern world.
Established1924
School districtLos Angeles Unified School District
PrincipalJoe Martinez
GradesK-5
Enrollment946 (2015-16)[1]
ColorsWhite and blue   
MascotCougar
Websitewww.carpentercharter.org

Carpenter Community Charter School, formerly Carpenter Avenue Elementary School, is a public K-5 elementary school in Los AngelesCalifornia.

Carpenter Community Charter is part of the Los Angeles Unified School District. The school is in Studio City. The school was opened in 1924 under the name Carpenter Street School [2] and is still in the same location. The Administrative Building was constructed in 1938 in PWA Moderne styling.[3]

The current principal of the school since 2010 (as of August 2021) is Joseph Martinez and the assistant principal is Melodie Hong. In September 2002 the school had a newer, larger library built complete with an Internet connection.[4]

For the 2008–2009 school year Carpenter had an enrollment of 847 students with the following racial/ethnic profile; White 76.3%, Hispanic 8.7%, Asian 8.1%, Black 4.6%, Filipino 1.3%, Other 1%. Carpenter is not eligible for Title I funding.[5] Carpenter receives approximately $300,000 annually via the fundraising efforts of parents.[6]

On June 16, 2010, Carpenter Avenue Elementary School became a Charter school. It then changed its name to Carpenter Community Charter School.[7]

Carpenter has multiple events, including the Carpenter Cooked, an event where children cook meals, Carpenter Movie Night, and the yearly gala. The school motto is "Cultivating young minds for the modern world."[citation needed]

References

  1.  "Carpenter Community Charter". National Center for Education Statistics. Retrieved December 17, 2018.
  2.  "History of Schools" (PDF)laschoolreport.com. January 1973. Retrieved October 13, 2025.
  3.  Leslie Heumann (March 2002). "Historic Schools of the Los Angeles Unified School District" (PDF). Retrieved April 7, 2010.
  4.  Barbara Whitaker (November 18, 2002). "OUT WEST; Door-to-Door Effort Brings a Community Back to Its School" (PDF)New York Times. Archived from the original (PDF) on July 7, 2011. Retrieved April 7, 2010.
  5.  "LAUSD School Profile Page: Carpenter Elementary". LAUSD. Retrieved April 7, 2010.
  6.  Dana Bartholomew (May 22, 2005). "Parents Taking Fundraising Into Their Own Hands". Archived from the original on July 28, 2011. Retrieved April 7, 2010.
  7.  "Carpenter Avenue Elementary a new charter school"Daily News. Los Angeles Newspaper Group. Archived from the original on June 19, 2010. Retrieved June 21, 2010.

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ABOUT US » Welcome Letter

Welcome Letter

Letterhead

August 1, 2025

 

Dear Parents/Guardians,

 

Welcome to the 2025-2026 school year! 

 

We are SUPER excited to get this new school year underway. For the first time in about a decade, all class sizes are being reduced approximately (2) students this school year. This reduction in class sizes is thanks to union contract agreements made between LAUSD and the teachers’ union, UTLA.
In addition to lower class sizes, we are thrilled to unveil a new school mural that was commissioned by our Governance Council and completed this summer. We are also very eager to introduce (6) new staff members who all look forward to contributing to our school community. Team Carpenter is fully charged and ready to welcome everyone back to a new year full of learning and growth.

 

In this new school year, we will carry on with our school-wide, established innovative programs:  Write…From the Beginning and Beyond, Engineering is Elementary, Restorative Justice, & MindUP.  You can expect to learn more about how these programs are being implemented in your child’s grade level at Back to School Night.  With the support of our teaching staff, Carpenter’s Governance Council, Parents for Carpenter (PFC), PTA and the hard work of our amazing parents and guardians, we all can look forward to the following exciting additions:

 

    • Reduced class sizes: TK-20 students, K/3-23 students, 4th gr.-28 students & 5th gr.-32 students
    • A fully refreshed & operational closed circuit security T.V. system
    • Additional 4th grade classroom teacher funded by our Governance Council (15th yr.)
    • Completion of a new mural, “Keep L.A. Wild” on our playground that is dedicated to the late P-22 and our school mascot (cougar) by L.A. Muralist, Corie Mattie
    • Year 3 of our after school Black Student Union where students can build relationships and create an additional support network & Year 2 of our Latiné Student Union & Rainbow Club
    • A continued commitment between Carpenter’s administration and our Diversity, Equity, Inclusion & Justice Committee to explicitly fight racism in all aspects of school life at Carpenter
    • Continuation of our Cell Phone/Smartwatch/Digital Device Policy that requires ALL devices (including wearables) to be stored and powered off during the instructional day
    • Full-time librarian (10th consecutive year)
    • Year 3 of a partnership with Youth Services & the STAR program to offer a free TK-5 ELOP after school program
    • The continuation of our highly popular 180∘Place - a safe, supervised playground area for students with injuries and/or students in need of assistance with interpersonal relationships
    • Full implementation of LAUSD’s Restorative Justice practices to promote and strengthen positive school culture
    • A recommended school community expectation that each family volunteer (1) hour a month during the school year of time, talent, and/or treasure

 

Another exciting change to our school this year is the arrival of six new staff members who are all very eager to become active members of our community.  I am thrilled to introduce the following educators who are joining our staff this year.

 

Teachers

  • Sophie Wiegand – Ms. Wiegand joins us with three years of teaching experience at Monlux Elementary where she taught fifth grade (2 years) and Citizens of the World Charter where she taught fourth grade (1 year).  She was raised in Burbank by professional musicians and grew up playing and performing classical piano. She attended California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo for her undergraduate degree and the University of California, Santa Barbara for her teaching credential. Ms. Wiegand is committed to fostering a classroom environment centered on empathy, emotional intelligence, and inclusivity. She is a strong believer in enriching the curriculum and engaging students in hands-on learning to build well-rounded students. Ms. Wiegand will be teaching third grade in room 29.
 
  • Jessica Jefferson – Ms. Jefferson comes to us with five years of experience as a fourth and fifth grade teacher at Odyssey Charter Schools in Altadena. She grew up in a military family. Ms. Jefferson is dedicated to creating a safe, inclusive classroom that fosters independence and growth. She is proficient in differentiated, data driven instruction, with a commitment to building strong family partnerships. Her previous school in Altadena sustained significant damage in the fires last January. With all the uncertainty about school facilities, she has made the decision to establish some new roots in Studio City. She attended Old Dominion University for her undergraduate degree and California State University Dominguez Hills for her teaching credential. Ms. Jefferson will be teaching fourth grade in room 25.
 
  • Hannah Yoo – Ms. Yoo will join our staff as a brand-new teacher who recently completed her student teaching at Porter Ranch Community School. If Ms. Wiegand and Ms. Jefferson are our free agent acquisitions of the summer, Ms. Yoo is our #1 draft pick. She is most definitely not a typical new teacher. Her experience at the Korean Dual Language Program at Porter Ranch along with her other experiences as a young adult/student leader make her a very strong addition to our school. She prioritizes building meaningful relationships with both students and families, fostering a growth-oriented environment where every child can learn and thrive with the right support. Ms. Yoo attended California State Los Angeles for her undergraduate degree and California State University Northridge for her teaching credential. Ms. Yoo will be teaching kindergarten in room 42.
 
  • Noor Elmasri (Interim TK Teacher) -In response to our unexpected surge in TK enrollments this summer, we are opening a fifth TK classroom this year. Since this is a growth classroom, it will not be official until mid-September when we can demonstrate to the district that we have the necessary number of TK students to justify an additional teacher. For that reason, Noor Elmasri will open the year as an interim teacher. Ms. Elmasri is a former Carpenter teacher. When our enrollment dropped during the pandemic, we were forced to dissolve her position along with a few others. She went on to teach two years at Porter Ranch Community School. This past year, Ms. Elmasri returned to Carpenter to teach science to our primary students in grades TK-3. She is experienced, well-organized, and very nurturing with students. Ms. Elmasri will be teaching TK in room 38.
 

Enrichment Staff

  • Miles Haddad – Coach Miles is a life-long athlete and baseball player who had aspirations of playing in the major leagues. After a great attempt to do so over multiple years, he has turned his attention to education. For the past couple of years, he has been working at St. Francis de Sales as a kindergarten instructional aide while simultaneously working at Campbell Hall as an assistant coach for the baseball team. In addition, he has been the Head of Baseball Development for Toluca Thunder Baseball for the past few years. Coach Miles earned his undergraduate degree in Sports Management at the University of the Pacific. He is passionate about helping students grow and develop the fundamental skills for various sports. He is committed to continuing our tradition of teaching life skills through physical education. Coach Miles will be teaching P.E. to all TK-5 students on our playground.
 
  • Paola Acevedo – Ms. Acevedo has been passionate about dance since a young age. She was born and raised in San Juan, Puerto Rico where, at the age of 15, she had the privilege of receiving a full scholarship at the School of Performing Arts Guaynabo where she trained in all styles of dance and was part of the Drama Danza Company. She has worked with major artists such as J-Balvin, Luis Fonsi, 50-Cent, Flo-Rida, Bad Bunny, Snoop Dogg and more. In 2016, she took a leap of faith and came to California for the Millennium Dance Complex Certificate Program. Throughout her dance career she developed a love for teaching. She has been teaching dance since 2011 in Puerto Rico and has taught in Los Angeles since 2016 at The Industry Dance Academy, Millennium Dance Complex, Sacred Heart High School, and Studio City's Creation Station. She earned her undergraduate degree in Communications from the University of Sacred Heart of Puerto Rico. She is passionate about finding ways to engage children of all ages in dance and finding the fun in movement and music. Ms. Acevedo will oversee our dance program for all students TK-5 in our dance room, room 34.

 

 

Thank you all for choosing Carpenter for your child’s elementary school. I hope that each of you will consider ways that you can participate to enhance your child’s experience and contribute to our school’s success. My staff and I are dedicated to working alongside all members of our school community to ensure that Carpenter Community Charter remains a source of pride for the Studio City community and a leader amongst elementary schools in Los Angeles and nationwide. 

 

  
 Centennial Martinez
 
Sincerely, 
signature
 
Joseph P. Martinez
Principal

2025/12/11

조현 이남곡 인터뷰 3 20251206



Transcript 3

공자 사상의 핵심을 보통 인이나 예로
하는데요.
그런데 이제 공자는
흥어이 이벌의 성어학이라고 해서
시에서 시 포에서 일어나서 악으로
음악 음악의 악 악으로 완성된다고
했는데요.
보통 이제 성인 철학자가 공자님처럼
감성적인 신하 예술 음악을 중시하고
강조한 인무를 거의 찾아보기가
어렵거든요.이를 이를 어떻게
보십니까?
그 점이 이제 사실은 그 뭐 이야기를
여러 가지 해 나가야 될 부분이
하난데 무지의 자각에 바탕을 둔 연찬
그리고 그것에 바탕으로 둔 호학 학
배우는 걸 배우길 탐가는 걸 좋아하는
거 이런게 사실은
공자한테는 인의 예지보다도 더
본질적인 것입니다. 예.
대부분 그 점에서 이제 아까 이제
우리 저 조선생이 지금 말을 하셨기
때문에
인의 예지하고
어 아까 그 공공
공공 예라고 하는 게
여기에 대한 이해를
하는데
어떤 유학자보다도 내가 이제 물론
과문이니까 많이 못 봤지만 어떤
유학자보다도 더
아주 내가들을 때 아 이거 핵심을 잘
짚었네라고 하는 표현을
내가 원불교 대경에서 발견을 해요.
원불교의 소태산 대종사가
이야기하는 가운데 아마 유학자 유교
사람하고 대화하는 과정일 텐데 이런
말을 하더라고. 뭐냐면
허무멸을 허무멸 이게 이
어 실제로 비공짜가 나오는 건
노자에도 빌공자가 안 나옵니다. 노자
도덕경에도 한자도 안 나와요. 공공
공사상이 없어 거기는.
유 유학에 유교 쪽에도 공자
이야기에도 공짜가 별로 안 나와.
필공자가 안 나오는데
내가 기억하기엔 그 아까 9편 7장에
공공이란 말이 나오는데요
말을 어 허무멸이라고 하는 식으로
표현을 한다면 공연을 불교에서 말하
저 소태산 대종사의 표현들 하면
대중사가 급발을 표현하더라고 공을
아니 허무 정멸을 채로 하고 체 몸
하고 인의 예지를 용으로 합니다.
용어로 삼는다.
음.
아주 내가 그 말 듣고이 엄청난 이게
느낌 모아요.
정확하게 정확하게라는 건 내 탄이니까
다른 사람들 다른 생각하겠지만 내가
볼 때는 핵심을 질렀어.
근데 이게 사실은 논에도 나옵니다.
어 그게 노 공자의 직접적인 이야기는
아니에요. 아니고
6원 6패라는 말을 해요.
음. 6원 6패 여섯 가지 이에
대해서 이게 덕도 되지만 이게 폐가
될 수 있다는게 6원 6패인데 그게
그게 전인
예지 같은 것들이 다 덕인데이 덕이
무엇이 뒤되지 않으면 하는 말은
호학이에요. 불호학. 만일에 배우는
걸 좋아하지 않은 홍악을 하지 않으면
다 패단이 되는 거예요.
그니까 이거 이게 바로 어 어떻게
보면 아까 초태산 저 박중민 선생이
이야기하는 핵심이요. 음.
어. 허무 정밀이란 표현이 좀 조금
우리 마음에 좀 아 닿지 않았다는
오히려 공이란 말이 그 좋았는데 공을
채로하고 음
인위 예지를 용어로 삼는다는 이제
이런 그거가 이제 하나 생각이 되고
아까인가
예에 대한 는데
지금 말씀하신 그 흥어시
입을래
성어랑
예예
일반적으로 다른 성인들한테는 볼 수
없죠.음 음.
근데 실제로 공자는
어 인간의 어떤 감정에 일어남
주로 상당히 보면 뭐 대단히 이성적인
성력은 주로 그 대단히 이성적인 근데
공자는
어 인간의 어떤 감정이라든지 이게
정서라든지에 대한 탁월한 통찰이
있어요.
그 그게 지금 그 문장 상당히 어려운
문장입니다. 나도이 이게 흥원이
이번에 성어하기 이거 어떻게 어떻게
봐야 되나 하는 거 이게 잘 들어오지
않았어요? 처음에 그러는데 이
쭉 공자 이렇게 논를 몇 차례 쭉
보다 보니까 이게 이제 들어와 사람이
어떤이
감정이 일어나는 것에 온초적인 감정을
나는 시라고 표현한 거 같아.
네.
온초적 감정이야 이게. 보면 아 근데
대초로 그 어 히로의약도 있지만 내가
볼 때는 그 원초적 감정이 뭐냐면
아름다움 같아. 예.
아름다움에
대한 감 그거야이 저 예 일어날 때
이게 시야 그러니까
그때 뭐 식경이지 뭐지 하는 걸 많이
예를 들어서 시를 모르면 뭐 하는
말을 제자들한테 많이 이야기해 시를
모르고 어떻게 하는 말은
그 사람의 어떤 원초적 감흥
아름다움에 대한 감흥 이런 것들이
일어나게 시인데
어 시 처음 일어나는 감정은
거치어요. 음
거칠다고 이러는 감정이 거칠어
거칠어서이
거친 걸 그대로 해 가지고는 내가 볼
때는 공자가 생각할 때는
이상적인 아름다운 세상을 만드는 건
조금 어 그대로 안 된다. 그게
입을래야. 입을래. 근데 여기서
얘는요
얘가 또 이게에 뭡니까? 아, 공자가
아, 그 과거에 공자 이전에 여러
가지 사상 여러 가지 이런 부분들을
어 내용을 바꾸고 바꾸고 확장하는
걸 해요. 그게 바로 헌부대 세수를
담는 방식이 하난데 하나가 군자고
군자도
내용을 바꿔 버려. 군자라는 건
사실은 대단히 그 신분제 사회에서의
위계 질서를 나타내는게 군자
아닙니까? 요 소위 관료 지배 계급을
나타내는게 군자야. 임금이 아들이라는
건데 내용을 완전히 벗어버려. 내용을
그 그런게 아니고 인격이 성숙한
사람이 군자다라고 이렇게 바꿔
버린다.
또 하나가 예입니다.
보통 예하게 되면 그냥 딱딱한 예의
범죄 이미 굳어져 있는 예의 범죄를
이야기하는데 공자는 이걸 확장해
버려요.
음.
아름다운 인간의 관계 아름다운 질서를
예로 합니다.
극기 복리할 때 얘가 바로 그예요.
네. 아름다운 인간 실수인데
적어도 인간이 일어나는 어떤 온초적인
어떤 그런 감흥을 예로서
다시 말해서 아름다운 질서를
향한 인간의 어떤 그런
그런 것으로 이렇게 좀 정제되지
않으면이라는
뜻이 이래예요.
아 그렇게 보여 나한테. 그리고데
마침내
그게 완성으로 나타나는게 음악입니다.
흠. 이건 다 요새 아주 현대
현대하고 통화하는 공자의 감각 같아.
예.
요새 보세요.
예.
음악이 지금 얼마나 지금 뭐 어 내가
가끔 그 그런 이야기 저 하는데
요새 인무운동가 뭐 철학가들 나와서
100마디 하는 것보다
어 가수가 어 이렇테면 트로 말하면
임영웅이가 한번 노래를 하면이
사람들이 감성을 깨워버려. 어 근데
거기에 이게 이게 이게 중요한 거야.
거기에 내용이 담기는 가사 가사하고
어떤 음률 음률 자체가 이게 적어도
어 어떤 인간의 보편적
그 지향을 담올 수 있어야 돼이
얘야이이 현대적으로 말하면
어 요새 또 그 저 임영보다 더 요새
뜨겁게 되는게 저거잖아. 음.팝 데몬
헌터스
그 나도 그 봤어요. 봤는데 어
솔직히 나는 감각은 트로트가 더 맞아
살펴봤는데
그런데
굉장히 귀중한 여러 가지를 생각을
하게
지금도 근데 공자는 그 성어학이라고
하는게 나는
어 요새는 또 저 실제로
이론으로도요. 아 저 정치 이론이나
뭐 사회 이론으로도 정동 이론이라고
하는게 상당히 각광을 받습니다. 뭔가
하면 인간은 감동을 해서 정적으로
움직이지 않으면 실제로 일이 안
이루어져. 정동이야. 정동.
근데 그런 면에서 본다 그러면 어
어떤 성인보다도 어 공자는 그런면
뛰어나다고 보여지.
그렇죠. 그러니까
자 공장님은
우리가 이제 예전에 예도 조선 시대
어떤 성리학의 어떤 보수의 질서를
세우는 그런 예만 우리가 그 굉장히
꼰대적 질서를 유지하기 위해서
장유의서 뭐 어 사고리충 뭐 같은
부부 유별 이런 식으로 남녀 차별 어
또 뭐 윗사람에 대한 또 충성 하여튼
이런 거만 굉장히 예를 예로 알고
있는데 공자의 본질은 은 지금이
책에서도 우리농선님께서
얘가 서로의 관계 사이 좋음 쪽으로
아주 우리 현대적으로 굉장히 공자의
어떤 핵심적인 예를 풀어 주셨는데요.
그러니까 또 이렇게 더군다 어떤
감성적인 부분은 제가 보기에는 공자에
대해서이 부분을 사람들이 지금 엿목을
알면은 공자의 매력에 정말 엄청나게
빠졌다. 그러니까
저는 이제 예를 들면 예수님 같은
경우는 굉장히 뭐 격동적인 것도 있고
엄청난 사랑이 넘치고 정의를 세우는데
어떤 주한점을 줬어 뒀다면은 또
부다 같은 경우는 이제 고통의 소멸에
대해서 엄청나게 이렇게 중점을 두다
보니까 그 얘기를 하다 보니까 또
출가자들 이후에 전문 수행자들에게
대부분의 설법을 하다 보니까 어떤
감성적 적인 면은 상당히 거의 배제를
했거든요. 감성적인 면이 드러나는게
거의 없는데
이제 공자님의 경우는 굉장히 이렇게
감성적이에요. 너무나 어 이렇게 있고
그래서 아까 뭐 대중경 말씀도
하셨지만 저는 이제 공자님의 에의에
관점은 조금 그것과는 다른데 그러니까
예를 들면 이제 허무 정멸로
보기보다는
그 이제 운물교회에서도 저는
유무상이란 것을 오히려 좋아하는데
이제 물러설 때는 무지만은 유로 다
드러나듯이 우리가 이제 사랑하고
미워하고 뭐 이렇게 하는 일체 어떤
감성적인 것이 원래 아무것도
없다기보다는 이제 불교적으로 보면
연기론 쪽으로 보면은 단지 어떤 조건
그 상황에서만 미움이 있는 것이지
연구적으로 항시 내 미움이 고정적인
형태로 딱 가시와 어떤 철퇴와 창이
내 마음속에 항상 유지돼 있는 것이
아니고 미움이라는 것이 증심이라는
것이 갈등이라는 것이 그 항상 조건에
의해서만 존재하기 때문에 조건이
해주면 그 자체는 공이고 그건 자체는
무고
그 때문에 이제 유무상통을
다 넘나들면서
그것을 무라고 하기보다는 그렇게
카탈스 하는 그런 감성적인 것도 우리
삶이 아주 중요한 부분으로서 시도
쓰고 노래도 부부 부르는 것을 아주
배태하기보다는 삶의 중요한 부분으로서
인간의 감성들을 이렇게 공자님께서
이렇게 했다는데 대해서 현대인들의
감성과는 너무도 이렇게 딱 어울린다.
특히 가를 특히 좋아하는
한국인들에게는 너무나이 공자님의
공장님이 거의 매일 노래를 했다 그
매일 노래를 했다 할 정도로 감성적인
분인데
야 요즘 한국인들의 정서에
굉장히 부합된 분이 아닌가 그런
생각을
그래 그 아 참 재밌어요 그게
공자 스스로가 상당한 정도 수준의 에
음악에 대한 초회가 대단하셨죠?
대단했어. 대단하고
자기도 악길 잘 다루고
그 저 자로가이
나오는 이야기데 자로가 한번 공장이
있는데 와서 그 설이라 악기 아마 그
검은고 비싼 거 뭐했는데 그걸 하는데
어떻게 네가 감히 이런 걸 하느냐
하고 나
아 잘오라 하는 제자는 사실은 보면
재밌는 제자 중에 하나야
스스름이 없이 그냥 공자하고 나의
차이도 제일 적어 아홉살 차이밖에 안
나 근데
공자와 제자들은 보 40 몇 살
차이나는 청년들하고도 막 그걸
하거든. 예제 그
어 제일 그 이제 그 허무 없이
이렇게 이야기하다 보니까 너 너 같이
그렇게 저 그런 정도 아기 하는 놈이
어떻게 우리 집에 와서 하느냐 하고
나무라는 이야기를 할 정도로 공자가
그 아 그리고
어 그 아까 이번 애하고도 관계되는
건데
순임금이 만든 음악을 제일 좋아했어.
그러니까 그게 돼 있는 거야.이데
네.이 그 인간이 그 추구해야 되는
가장 이상적인 사회질서 안에 들어
있는 거예요. 그게 순임금의 음악을
듣고는
뭐 석달 동안인가
고기맛을 몰랐다고 할
소라는 음악을 듣고
그게 소화가 바로 이제 아마 순임금
거 그 그런 그 그런 식인데
내가 요새 그 좀 지난번 우연히 무슨
방송을 보다 보니까 아 그 말이 좀
그 연결이 돼서 하나 생각되는
거예요. 송창식.
네.
우리 나고 봐 비슷할 거야. 나이가.
송창식. 송창식이 KBS 사는 거
있어. 그
부의 거 그게 나와서
하데 마침 그때 송창식이 노래를
부르는 날인가 하는 노래를
이제여 가수가 송창이 노래 하는데
부르는가 하는 걸 박정현이가
불렀다고.
아하. 아 사실 내가 좋아하는 가수
중에 한 사람이 박정현입니다. 예.
근데 박정현이 콘서트 한번가 보는게
죽기 전에 하늘이
버디스
버디스
아 버
박정희 노래를 듣고 송창 씨가 딱
평을 하는데 이런 말을 하더라고. 내
정확하게 표현을 안 되는지 모르는데
요새 음악을 보면 자기가 볼 땐 너무
그 표현이 그래. 그게 좀 거칠다는
거야 이게. 근데 뭔가 음악의 표준이
있어야 될 거 표준이란 말을 하거든.
표준 표현이 정확한지 내가 기억을
못했는데 근데 박정희한테 최대히
찬사야.
나는 박정희를 볼 때 그 표준을 보는
거 같다는 거예요.
아하
그 내가 그 말을 듣고 송창식기도
굉장히 마음에 들더라고.
그 이럴 테면
예,
지금 음악
뭐 뭐야, 케팝 데모넌헌넌터스 같은게
지금 세계적인 각각을 받고 있지만 더
앞으로 어 하려고 그러면
세계가 지향해야 될 예,
세계가 지향해야 될 아름다운 질서를
그 안에 담을 수 있어야 돼. 이것이
아마 앞으로의 과제가 아닐까 이런
우리 공장한테서 크게 배우는 겁니다.
예.