2021/04/28

INTRODUCTION TO THE QUAKERS » Hastings Quakers

INTRODUCTION TO THE QUAKERS » Hastings Quakers

INTRODUCTION TO THE QUAKERS

“Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations, wherever you come, that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them; then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one.”
(George Fox)

Origins of Quakerism   –     Quaker  Beliefs   –    Quaker  Worship

ORIGINS 


  The artist Benjamin West’s depiction of William Penn meeting with native Americans

“Quakers” is the name most generally used for members of the Religious Society of Friends – rather a mouthful, that, and normally only used for formal or official purposes. However although Quakerism can be treated for many practical purposes as a religion or a “Church”, the expression “religious society” is really a better way of describing what Quakers are about, as we shall see.

The Society arose in England during the 1650’s when Oliver Cromwell governed the country after executing King Charles and overthrowing the established political and religious order. It was a time of great unrest, not only in public life but also in terms of people’s values and beliefs. New and radical ideas were being floated – some of them surprisingly advanced even by today’s standards. Out of this atmosphere of enquiry and uncertainty emerged a Leicestershire man – George Fox – who as a young man had profound spiritual instincts but found that none of the existing Churches or religious systems were able to answer his needs. Then in 1647 out of the blue he had a “road to Damascus” experience of the presence of God, and realised that living in the awareness of God’s presence – or “living in the Light” as he expressed it – was all the spiritual guidance that one needed.

At that time many people were anticipating the imminent return to earth of Jesus Christ (some people still do!) but Fox now understood that Christ had in fact already returned – not in the way people expected, but in a spiritual sense, in the human heart. Fox declared that “Christ has come to teach his people himself”. There was no need to wait for the “Kingdom of God” to arrive: it was already here, for anyone who wanted it. If that were so of course then the whole apparatus of priests, rituals and theological systems which had been built up by the established Churches, whether Catholic or Protestant, were entirely superfluous. Fox, controversially for that time, declared that this spirit – the “light of Christ” – is to be found in every human being, not just Christians.

Fox was convinced that this was in fact how Christianity had been at the beginning and was always meant to be, but that over the ages vested interests and the ambitions of power-hungry individuals had corrupted the original simplicity of the Christian message and ossified the Church. It is interesting in fact that similar ideas had been taught by radical reformers like Thomas Muentzer and Hans Denck in Germany some 150 years earlier. The 20th century writer Reginald Reynolds says that “Quakerism began as a protest against dead letter religion” (in “John Woolman and the 20th century”).

Filled with joy and enthusiasm at this revelation, Fox was anxious to spread the news, and began to travel the country sharing his insights with anyone who would listen. He found many people – “seekers” as they were called – equally disillusioned with the state of things, who welcomed his message.  In a very few years the scattered congregations of his followers that Fox left in his wake were organised into a network of “Meetings” (as congregations of Quakers are still called to this day). It was in 1652 that Fox’s message took on the nature of a mission, when he gained his first significant number of adherents during a visit to the Lake District and in particular the invaluable support and protection of the influential Fell family. Using their home as his centre of operations, Fox and his followers took their message around the country.

In those days, however, failing to conform to the established order – whether the King’s or Cromwell’s – led to persecution and imprisonment. The Quakers however refused to compromise and proved impossible to suppress, developing a technique of stubborn but non-violent resistance to the abuse of power, which has been an example to all the ages since. Soon Quakers were introducing their beliefs to lands beyond the British Isles, from Russia to Barbados. One intrepid Quaker woman even obtained an audience with the Sultan of the Turkish empire! William Penn went so far as to establish a Quaker state in Pennsylvania which, during the seventy years or so that Quakers were able to retain control of it, was a beacon of enlightenment compared with the narrow-minded intolerance that still marked most of the Puritan colonies of New England at that time. The French writer Voltaire said that William Penn’s pact with the native people was the only treaty made between the white settlers and the American Indians that was never sworn to, and the only one that was never broken.

 

QUAKER BELIEFS


“To me, being a Christian is a particular way of life, not the unquestioning acceptance of a particular system of theology, not belief in the literal truth of the Virgin birth, or the Resurrection and Ascension, but being the kind of person that Jesus wanted his followers to be and doing the things he told them to do.” (Kathleen Lonsdale, 1967)

The first thing to realise is that Quakerism is not about “faith” but about experience. Quakers are different from most other religions in having no “creed” – there is no list of beliefs that members must subscribe to. As the Quaker writer John Lampen put it, “The danger in holding a creed is that people begin to believe that its words can actually contain the truth, and that everything depends on getting them right. The creed itself becomes venerated, instead of the experience to which it points.”

So far as Quakers are concerned, issues such as the Trinity or the Virgin Birth are matters of opinion which you can believe or not as you please, but we tend to avoid fruitless speculation about things which nobody can know for certain. In any case these are not matters we feel to be important: they do not affect our view of the world, or of our place and purpose in it. What matters to us is the sort of person you are, and the way you live your life.

The basis of Quakerism is simply that there is something within each of us which we call “that of God” or sometimes more simply, “The Light” or “The Spirit”. It is there in everyone, no matter how obscure it may appear, or difficult it may be to see it sometimes! We aim to find this in ourselves and act upon it, according to our highest vision, and also to remember always to look for it in others. The more we bring our lives consciously into the presence of the Light within us, the more we can experience the love and comfort, wisdom and guidance that comes with “living in The Light”. As Luke’s Gospel puts it, “the kingdom of God is within you”.

Quakers believe in a God who is available and accessible. Religion for us is not a question of having to believe things we are told by some Leader (there is no such person in the Religious Society of Friends) just because they say so, or because it is written in a book, although we do value wisdom and inspiration wherever we find it. However in the end it is a matter of what truth we ourselves discover on our own journeys of spiritual growth. Unlike some religions, Quakers do not claim to be the “one true Church” or to have all the right answers. We are more interested in asking the right questions, especially the difficult questions. Quakerism is simply, as we put it, a “way”. It is a way of approaching God, a way of approaching spirituality and a way of living.

Isaac Penington, one of the first generation of Quakers, explained that Quakers are not a group of people who get together because they happen to agree with each other: they agree with each other because they are all living in the Light, which as John’s gospel says, is “the one Light that enlightens everyone”. However we need to be prepared to test our own understanding of the Light against the insights of others, to check that we have properly considered and correctly interpreted what the Light appears to be revealing to us. Otherwise it would be too easy for some individual to get hold of the wrong end of the stick, and dash off out of control in completely the wrong direction – a danger that Quakers in the early days learned about through bitter experience! As the writer Reginald Reynolds once said, “All that we affirm in this doctrine of the Inner Light is the existence of Absolute Truth, and that its Light shines within us . . .  it is our understanding, and not Truth itself, which is relative and finite.” (from “The Wisdom of John Woolman”, 1948)

 Although the founders of Quakerism set it within the Christian tradition and culture of their time, Quakers always emphasised that The Light is to be found in everyone – not only among Quakers, and not only among Christians. In the words of John’s Gospel, “It is the true Light that enlightens everyone who comes into the World”. It cannot be contained or confined within creeds or religious dogmas. We do not for example insist that our Members take any specific view about the Bible or about Jesus Christ, although both are of great importance to our understanding of the world and of our purpose in it. Quakers consider that actions demonstrate better than words who are the real followers of Jesus (“by their fruits you shall know them”) and indeed it seems to us on any reading of the Gospels that Jesus himself was much more interested in the way people behaved to each other, rather than in what religious theories they held. The famous historian George Trevelyan, commenting on the Quakers in his  seminal work “English Social History” hit the nail on the head when he wrote that the Quakers were more concerned with upholding Christian qualities rather than Christian dogmas.

Quakers therefore have abandoned much of the trappings of the historic Christian Churches: we have no liturgy, no clergy, no sacraments. However while Quakers have little time for abstract religious dogma, we do share certain basic and enduring values expressed in statements which we call “Testimonies”. These are not just things we say we believe in: it is the way we live. They record the things we have found work for good in the world, a way to express how our experience of God translates into action – for Quakerism is above all a practical religion which affects how we actually live and act day by day, not just a set of theories to be recollected on Sundays!

“PEACE”

Probably the best known of the Quaker Testimonies is the “Peace Testimony” rejecting the use of violence, both on a personal level and by society collectively. God is Love, and God lives within people – all people. Fighting against other people takes us away from God. The early Quakers believed they were preparing the way for the Kingdom of Heaven (as they would have expressed it) , and in this new world there would be no place for war and violence. If we truly love our neighbours then it must be self-evident that we would not hurt or harm them. George Fox advised his followers to “walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one.” Nobody says this is easy: there are people in whom the Light of God seems obscure, if not invisible! Nevertheless however wrong some people seem to be, and however bad their actions may appear to us, the experience of Quakers is that violence never makes a problem better – as it says in the Epistle of James, “God’s righteousness is not served by men’s anger”.

On the other hand there is nothing “passive” about Quaker pacifism! Our peace testimony does not mean we should be silent and do nothing when faced with evil. Rather we seek to confront and speak out against evil, but reject the temptation of using evil means to overcome it. In times of war or crisis Quakers actively work to promote peace, and to find non-violent ways of resolving the problem, but in the meantime they will generally be found organising or supporting humanitarian relief work. During World War One, Quaker conscientious objectors founded the Friends’ Ambulance Unit, and Quakers are also prominent in many campaigning organisations such as Ploughshares, CND, the Campaign Against Arms Trade etc.

“EQUALITY”

The principle that there is “that of God in everyone” leads to another obvious conclusion: that we are all equal in the sight of God. This is almost a truism, and of course most Churches pay lip-service to the idea. What made Quakers different from the very beginning is that they actually behaved as though they really meant it! This meant that Quakers refused to respect titles and the trappings of power; it is why Quakers were among the first to demand and to campaign for the abolition of slavery. It explains why Quakers never had any problem with the idea that women should have as great a part to play as men in their worship, and in the conduct of their Meetings. It is also the reason why Quakers have no priests or clergy: for the Light of Christ is in everyone, and is not just confined to “experts” or “professionals”.

In the early days of Quakerism, one way of demonstrating the testimony to equality was the Quakers’ refusal to comply with the elaborate social rituals which were expected of well brought-up people in those days. Many a Quaker got into hot water for refusing “hat honour” – that is, refusing to doff their hats – upon greeting people who were considered to be their equals or indeed their betters. However times change, and most people these days do not generally wear hats anyway. Nowadays, our way of expressing the Testimony to Equality is more likely to be in a concern for the disadvantaged and dispossessed, to try and ensure that those with wealth and position in the world do not take unfair advantage of their power.

“TRUTH AND INTEGRITY”

This leads on to the next Quaker testimony, which is the importance of complete honesty and personal integrity. We cannot claim to be seeking God in our lives if we have falsehood within us. Quakers therefore consciously strive to be faithful to the truth. To us, this means not just speaking the truth but living it. Quakerism is very much a practical religion, a guide for our day-to-day living, and we intend that the truth we have found in our spiritual journeys should show forth in our lives, so that the way we live is in harmony with what we know of ourselves, our fellow creatures and with God. The original meaning of “integrity” after all was “wholeness”.

When it comes to public issues, Quakers have a tradition of “speaking Truth to Power” – in other words, not being shy of telling our leaders where they are going wrong! In this context we find that a reputation for truthfulness gives our words that little extra weight, and an influence out of all proportion to our numbers.

 This does have practical advantages: many Quaker businesses grew and flourished because their trading partners could be confident that a Quaker’s word could be relied upon. An interesting “by-product” of this Testimony is the Quakers’ refusal, ever since the earliest days, to take oaths in any formal proceedings, such as in a Court of Law. The Quakers argued that they do not have double-standards of honesty, and that they tell the truth all the time, not just when they are officially requested to do so! It does mean however that Quakers have little time for diplomatic evasions, and can be disconcertingly direct if asked to express an opinion!

“SIMPLICITY”

Try to live simply. A simple lifestyle, freely chosen, is a source of strength. Do not be persuaded into buying what you do not need, or cannot afford.  

(“Advices and Queries, no. 41)

Quakers have always emphasised the value of a life of simplicity and moderation. How this works in practice is something that varies from age to age depending on which particular excesses happen to be in vogue at the time. For us today, the main emphasis is on avoiding excessive “getting and spending” and the conspicuous consumerism which is such a feature of modern industrialised societies. There is constant pressure these on all of us these days to consume more all the time – or, to put it in more traditional terms, to be greedy. This is good no doubt for the profits of the companies who supply the shops and who pay for the advertisements, but it is not good for us. We cannot truly live in the Spirit if we are addicted to the desire for material possessions – or as Jesus put it more succinctly, “You cannot serve God and mammon”.

We saw the results of this kind of attitude all too clearly in the riots that took place in England’s cities in August 2011: people under a constant bombardment of advertisements for new consumer gadgets, tormented by the knowledge that they could not afford them and unable to see any other way of getting them, decided they would just go out and take them! The only surprising thing really is that this did not happen a lot sooner.

An ever-increasing list of wants and needs will not make us happier or more contented: quite the contrary the more so-called “needs” we create for ourselves, the more insecure we will be if we fear that we may not be able to get all these things we crave, or that they might be taken away from us. That is why you will read, in our “Advices and Queries” (a small booklet of 42 Quaker insights) that “A simple lifestyle freely chosen is a source of strength.”

The Quaker testimony to Simplicity also ties in closely here with our testimony to Equality, since only a few people can afford the kind of lifestyle that the fantasy-world of advertisements would have us aspire to, and those who can are doing it at the expense of those who have to go without. We therefore like to keep an eye on our own lifestyles and the implications of the decisions we make every day. When we go shopping for example, it is useful to consider where the goods we purchase have come from and how they are produced, rather than going unthinkingly for those which are cheapest, or which have been most persistently advertised. We need to consider whether we may be giving financial support to multi-national corporations which maintain sweatshops in their-world countries, or which are causing serious pollution, or destroying the rainforests.

Quaker simplicity is not to be confused with being dull or boring, though. In “Quaker Faith & Practice” (the Quaker “manual”, for want of a better word) we are exhorted to “live adventurously”, and the Quaker spirit of enquiry and involvement in the World led to many of them becoming well known pioneers in their various fields of activity – these include William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania; Jeremiah Dixon, one of the surveyors who drew the “Mason-Dixon line” in North America (and whose name still survives in the expression “Dixieland”);  Abraham Darby, whose invention of the blast-furnace started the industrial revolution; Elizabeth Fry, the prison reformer whose face used to appear on English £5 notes until 2016; George Cadbury the chocolate manufacturer, and Philip Noel-Baker, who as a young man won a silver medal in the 1920 Olympic Games, and 20 years later served as a minister in Clement Attlee’s post-war government, and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1959. 

Quaker scientists have made notable contributions to the field of human knowledge, such as the chemist John Dalton who discovered the atomic structure of the elements; the astronomer Arthur Eddington whose observations of the sun validated Einstein’s theory of general relativity and who also correctly predicted the discovery that the stars are fuelled by nuclear fusion; and Katherine Lonsdale who pioneered the use of x-rays in crystallography and who had a rare form of diamond – called lonsdaleite – named after her. 

Swann          Eddington      Joan Baez 1966.jpg
        Donald Swann                                          Judi Dench                                 Paul Eddington                            Joan Baez

More recently, well-known Quakers have included the cartoonist Gerard Hoffnung; the musician Donald Swann (famous through his comic partnership with Michael Flanders); the singer Joan Baez, well known not just for her music but for her peace activism and support for human rights; the broadcaster Gerald Priestland; the song-writer Sydney Carter (best known for “Lord of the Dance”); the children’s novelist Ian Serraillier (author of “The Silver Sword”), the actor Paul Eddington (distantly related to the astronomer Arthur Eddington mentioned above) who played the parts of Jerry in “The Good Life” and Jim Hacker in “Yes Minister”, the actresses Judi Dench and Sheila Hancock, and the astronomer Jocelyn Bell Burnell, who discovered pulsars in 1967.

QUAKER WORSHIP

Anyone is welcome to come to a Quaker “Meeting for Worship” (as our services are called). It is not restricted to Members, and there is no need to obtain permission or make any special arrangement beforehand. We are used to people just coming along to see what it is like. People who are not Members but who come regularly to share our Meeting for Worship are called “Attenders”. If they wish, then once they feel ready to make a commitment to the Society and its values, Attenders may apply for Membership. However there is no pressure on them to do so, and some Attenders in fact worship with us for many years without ever feeling called to become Members of the Society at all.

Quaker worship is not quite like any other church service. There is no priest or minister to lead it, and no set form of words or prayers to follow. The Meeting is based around silence, in which we all seek to find the presence of God in our hearts and in the life of the Meeting. We sit in silence and wait to see what the Inward Light may show us. From time to time someone may feel moved by the Spirit to get up and say something to the Meeting. We call these utterances “Ministry”. They are listened to with respectful attention, and then the silence resumes unless and until further Ministry is given. It is quite possible for a Meeting to pass in complete silence, which can be a very profound experience. It is worth going to a Quaker wedding, too, if you are ever invited. The couple – who face the congregation rather than having their backs to them – make their declarations and marry themselves, without any priest or minister being involved.

Local Quaker Meetings are mainly responsible for running their own affairs, and usually once a month there is a Business Meeting which is run along similar principles to all other Quaker activities. Everyone present participates on an equal footing. There is no “leader” with authority to make or impose decisions, only a “Clerk” who conducts the Meeting and records the decisions that are made. It is central to the Quaker business method is that nothing is ever put to a vote. Voting means in practice that a victorious Majority over-rides and imposes its will upon a defeated Minority, who are expected to grin and bear it. This is not the way Quakers like to do things. We do not want to have “winners” and “losers”. Instead, everyone explores the issues and options together and seeks to discern the will of the Spirit as to the best way forward.

This idea of “discernment” is the key to the Quaker method. If necessary, decisions will be postponed to allow time for further reflection. It is not always the fastest way to reach a decision, but Quakers consider it more important to find a way forward that enables everyone to feel that their voice has been heard, and that their wishes and feelings are respected and valued even by those who may disagree with what they say.









 Posted by  at 2:44 pm







Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection





Sejin Pak
dt28SS pAhlonnsproial Ststr20Sfh1eo9d ·
Shared with Public






[기독교] 미국 신학교 학장이 천국, 기적, 그리스도의 부활을 믿지 않는다고
- 퀘이커와 가까와 지고 있다. 한탄하는 기독교인도 있지만 좋은 경향이라고 보인다. 정말로 중요한 것에 주목하자는 것으로 들으면 된다.



변영권
dt27SS pAhlonnsproial Ststr20Sfh1eo9d ·

전문을 번역할까 하다가 귀찮아서 세렌 존스의 발언 부분만 대충 번역했습니다.
마지막 남침례회의 아무개가 떠든 반응이 재미있어요. 정확하게 예수님을 반대했던 당시 종교인들의 광광대는 소리랑 일치하는 듯??
=================
<신학대 학장이 자신은 천국, 기적, 그리스도의 부활을 믿지 않는다고 인정하다>
1836년에 "무오한" 하느님의 말씀을 기초로 해서 설립된 신학교의 학장이 새로운 인터뷰에서 그녀는 그리스도의 육체부활, 기도의 능력, 문자적인 천국이나 기적을 믿지 않는다고 말했다.
뉴욕 유니온 신학대학의 학장인 세렌 존스는... 문자 그대로의 그리스도의 육체 부활을 거부한다.
"복음서를 보면, 그 이야기들은 여기 저기에 나온다. 마가에는 부활 이야기가 없다. 그저 빈 무덤만 있을 뿐이다. 무슨 일이 일어났는지 알고 있다고 하는 사람들은 자신을 속이고 있는 것이다. 십자가 처형은 하느님이 저 윗층에서 조종하시는 그런 사건이 아니다. 하느님이 사람들을 용서하기 위해서 자기 자녀를 십자가에 보내는 아버지 같은 폭력적인 하느님이라는 만연한 생각은 미친 소리다. 나에게 십자가는 우리 인간의 증오로 만들어진 법(enactment)이다. 그러나 부활절에 일어난 것은 고통 가운데에서 일어난 사랑의 승리다. 그것이 바로 희망의 이유 아닐까?"
그녀는 기도를 통해 하느님이 기적적인 치료를 하신다는 개념을 거부한다.
"나는 기도하면 당신 어머니의 암을 고쳐주지만, 기도하지 않는 당신 이웃의 어머니는 고쳐주지 않는 하느님을 믿지 않는다. 우리는 하느님을 그런 식으로 조종할 수 없다."

그녀는 동정녀 탄생을 거부한다.
"나는 처녀 탄생을 이상한 주장이라고 생각한다. 그것은 예수의 가르침과는 아무 관계가 없다. 처녀 탄생은 당신이 성을 죄라고 여기는 신학을 갖고 있을 때만 중요한 문제가 된다. 그것은 또한 순수하고, 자연 그대로인 여성의 몸이 최상의 몸이라는 생각을 조장하며, 그러한 생각은 오랜 세월 동안 여성을 억압해 왔다."

사람들이 죽은 뒤에 어떤 일이 일어나는지를 묻자, 존스는 이렇게 대답했다.
"나는 모른다. 무언가가 있을 수도 있고, 아무 것도 없을 수도 있다. 내 신앙은 사후 세계에 대한 신의 어떤 약속에 묶여 있지 않다."

우리는 어떻게 "전지전능하신 하느님"과 악, 고난을 조화시킬 수 있는지를 묻자 존스는 이렇게 대답했다.
"신앙의 중심에는 신비가 있다. 하느님은 우리의 지식 너머에 있는 분이지, 어떤 존재나, 본질이나, 대상이 아니다. 나는 모든 능력이 있고, 모든 것을 통제할 수 있는 전지전능한 존재를 예배하지 않는다. 그것은 로마의 법 이론과 그리스 신화가 조합된 것이다.

이에 대해 남침례회의 몰러인지 뭔지 하는 사람이 이렇게 대답했다고 하네요.
"이것은 그리스도교가 아니다. 이것은 현대의 세속적인 감성을 해치지 않기 위해 만든 새로운 종교, 새로운 신이다. 그녀는 포스트 모던 신학으로 신을 만들었고, 그것은 오직 하나 뿐인 진정한 하느님, 성서의 하느님과 닮지 않았다."



CHRISTIANHEADLINES.COM
Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection
The president of a seminary founded in 1836 on the “infallible” Word of God says in a new interview she doesn’t believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ, the power of prayer, a literal heaven, or miracles.

Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection
Michael Foust | ChristianHeadlines.com Contributor | Thursday, April 25, 2019
Seminary President Admits She Doesn’t Believe in Heaven, Miracles or Christ’s Resurrection

#New York #top headlines #Union Seminary #false teachers #Serene Jones

The president of a seminary founded in 1836 on the “infallible” Word of God says in a new interview she doesn’t believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ, the power of prayer, a literal heaven, or miracles.  


Serene Jones, president of Union Theological Seminary in New York, made the comments in an interview with Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times for an article published Easter weekend. Although the author’s intent may have been to inspire readers, it also served to spotlight the leftward drift of many seminaries

Union Theological Seminary’s founding constitution stated the seminary’s goal was to “promote” the “Kingdom of Christ.” Professors were required to affirm they believed “the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be the word of God” and the “only infallible rule of faith and practice.” 


But as Jones made clear, the seminary is a very different school today. 

She rejects a literal bodily resurrection of Christ.

“When you look in the Gospels, the stories are all over the place. There’s no resurrection story in Mark, just an empty tomb. Those who claim to know whether or not it happened are kidding themselves,” Jones said. “… Crucifixion is not something that God is orchestrating from upstairs. The pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts. For me, the cross is an enactment of our human hatred. But what happens on Easter is the triumph of love in the midst of suffering. Isn’t that reason for hope?”

She rejects the idea that God miraculously heals through prayer.

“I don’t believe in a God who, because of prayer, would decide to cure your mother’s cancer but not cure the mother of your nonpraying neighbor,” she said. “We can’t manipulate God like that.”


She rejects the virgin birth.

“I find the virgin birth a bizarre claim,” she said. “It has nothing to do with Jesus’ message. The virgin birth only becomes important if you have a theology in which sexuality is considered sinful. It also promotes this notion that the pure, untouched female body is the best body, and that idea has led to centuries of oppressing women.”

Asked what happens when people die, Jones responded, “I don’t know! There may be something, there may be nothing. My faith is not tied to some divine promise about the afterlife.”

Asked how we can reconcile an “omnipotent, omniscient God” with evil and suffering, Jones responded, “At the heart of faith is mystery. God is beyond our knowing, not a being or an essence or an object. But I don’t worship an all-powerful, all-controlling omnipotent, omniscient being. That is a fabrication of Roman juridical theory and Greek mythology.”

When Kristof asked her if he can be considered a Christian after not believing in a virgin birth or resurrection, Jones answered, “Well, you sound an awful lot like me, and I’m a Christian minister.”

R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said Jones rejected the “entire edifice of orthodox, biblical Christianity.”

“This is not Christianity,” Mohler wrote. “This is a new religion, a new god, formed in an image intended not to offend modern secular sensibilities. She has constructed a god from post-modern theology that in no way resembles the God of the Bible – the one true God.”


Mohler observed that Jones denied “the reality of the resurrection, the necessity of the virgin birth, the attributes of God, the power of prayer, and the existence of heaven and hell.”

“According to Jones,” Mohler wrote. “there is no cross on which Jesus died for sin, there is no Father who sent the Son to pay our ransom, there is no bodily resurrection of Christ from the dead as a sign and seal of God’s promises – indeed, she has denied everything that makes the gospel good news. She even denies that God is a ‘being.’”

Jones claims to be a Christian minister while simultaneously rejecting “every tenet of the historic Christian faith,” Mohler said.

“Why would anyone identify as a Christian minister and then deny the entire superstructure of Christian theology?” Mohler asked. “What we see here is a hope to replace biblical Christianity with a new religion without anyone noticing.”

Michael Foust is a freelance writer. Visit his blog, MichaelFoust.com.

Photo courtesy: Gryffindor/Wikimedia Commons/Creative Commons, Resized and cropped to 1200x627
===



Opinion

Reverend, You Say the Virgin Birth Is ‘a Bizarre Claim’?

The president of Union Theological Seminary also discusses crucifixion, hell and a new reformation.


“Deposition From the Cross,” a detail from "The Altarpiece of the Annunciation," 1503-1507, by Pietro Perugino and Filippino Lippi.Credit...DeAgostini/Getty Images

776



By Nicholas Kristof


Opinion Columnist
April 20, 2019



This is the latest in my occasional series of conversations about Christianity. Here’s my interview, edited for space, with Serene Jones, a Protestant minister, president of Union Theological Seminary and author of a new memoir, “Call It Grace.”

KRISTOF Happy Easter, Reverend Jones! To start, do you think of Easter as a literal flesh-and-blood resurrection? I have problems with that.

JONES When you look in the Gospels, the stories are all over the place. There’s no resurrection story in Mark, just an empty tomb. Those who claim to know whether or not it happened are kidding themselves. But that empty tomb symbolizes that the ultimate love in our lives cannot be crucified and killed.

For me it’s impossible to tell the story of Easter without also telling the story of the cross. The crucifixion is a first-century lynching. It couldn’t be more pertinent to our world today.

But without a physical resurrection, isn’t there a risk that we are left with just the crucifixion?

Crucifixion is not something that God is orchestrating from upstairs. The pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts. For me, the cross is an enactment of our human hatred. But what happens on Easter is the triumph of love in the midst of suffering. Isn’t that reason for hope?


You alluded to child abuse. So how do we reconcile an omnipotent, omniscient God with evil and suffering?

At the heart of faith is mystery. God is beyond our knowing, not a being or an essence or an object. But I don’t worship an all-powerful, all-controlling omnipotent, omniscient being. That is a fabrication of Roman juridical theory and Greek mythology. That’s not the God of Easter. The God of Easter is vulnerable and is connected to the world in profound ways that don’t involve manipulating the world but constantly inviting us into love, justice, mercy.

Isn’t a Christianity without a physical resurrection less powerful and awesome? When the message is about love, that’s less religion, more philosophy.

For me, the message of Easter is that love is stronger than life or death. That’s a much more awesome claim than that they put Jesus in the tomb and three days later he wasn’t there. For Christians for whom the physical resurrection becomes a sort of obsession, that seems to me to be a pretty wobbly faith. What if tomorrow someone found the body of Jesus still in the tomb? Would that then mean that Christianity was a lie? No, faith is stronger than that.

Editors’ Picks
‘While I Was Away, My Boss Had Flowers Delivered to My Apartment’

After Covid Upended a Dying Woman’s Rome Dream, Her Twin Stepped In

Private Schools Brought In Diversity Consultants. Outrage Ensued.

Continue reading the main story


What about other miracles of the New Testament? Say, the virgin birth?

I find the virgin birth a bizarre claim. It has nothing to do with Jesus’ message. The virgin birth only becomes important if you have a theology in which sexuality is considered sinful. It also promotes this notion that the pure, untouched female body is the best body, and that idea has led to centuries of oppressing women.

Prayer is efficacious in the sense of making us feel better, but do you believe it is efficacious in curing cancer?

I don’t believe in a God who, because of prayer, would decide to cure your mother’s cancer but not cure the mother of your nonpraying neighbor. We can’t manipulate God like that.

What happens when we die?

I don’t know! There may be something, there may be nothing. My faith is not tied to some divine promise about the afterlife. People who behave well in this life only to achieve an afterlife, that’s a faith driven by a selfish motive: “I’m going to be good so God would reward me with a stick of candy called heaven?” For me, living a life of love is driven by the simple fact that love is true. And I’m absolutely certain that when we die, there is not a group of designated bad people sent to burn in hell. That does not exist. But hell has a symbolic reality: When we reject love, we create hell, and hell is what we see around us in this world today in so many forms.

I’ve asked this of other interviewees in this religion series: For someone like myself who is drawn to Jesus’ teaching but doesn’t believe in the virgin birth or the physical resurrection, what am I? Am I a Christian?

Well, you sound an awful lot like me, and I’m a Christian minister.

I often feel like we are in the middle of another reformation in a 500-year cycle. John Calvin and Martin Luther had no idea they were in the middle of a reformation, but they knew that church structures were breaking down, new forms of communication were emerging, new scientific discoveries were being made, new kinds of authorities and states and economic systems arising — all like this moment in time. This creates a spiritual crisis and a spiritual flexibility.

Christianity is at something of a turning point, but I think that this questioning and this reaching is even bigger than Christianity. It reaches into many religious traditions. This wrestling with climate change, and wrestling with the levels of violence in our world, wrestling with authoritarianism and the intractable character of gender oppression — it’s forcing communities within all religions to say, “Something is horribly wrong here.” It’s a spiritual crisis. Many nonreligious people feel it, too. We need a new way entirely to think about what it means to be a human being and what the purpose of our lives is. For me, this moment feels apocalyptic, as if something new is struggling to be born.


Like 2,000 years ago?

Yes. Something was struggling to be born on that first Easter. It burst forth in ways that changed the world forever. Today I feel that spiritual ground around us shaking again. The structures of religion as we know it have come up bankrupt and are collapsing. What will emerge? That is for our children and our children’s children to envision and build.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Nicholas Kristof has been a columnist for The Times since 2001. He has won two Pulitzer Prizes, for his coverage of China and of the genocide in Darfur. You can sign up for his free, twice-weekly email newsletter and follow him on Instagram@NickKristof  Facebook


===
NYT PicksReader PicksAll
CF commented April 21, 2019
C
CF
Massachusetts
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
This column is a nice Easter gift to this former Catholic.

I will not speak for all of Catholicism, but my Catholic school teachings were heavy on sex being a dirty act.  Mary was pure. Period.  Whether Mary had other children was never discussed.  Although the bible talks about siblings of Jesus, it appears many Catholics think they weren't biological children of Mary.  I took away one message: sex is dirty.  

My Catholic school teachings were also heavily focused on the crucifixion, particularly that the whole thing was somehow my fault for being a sinful person.  We had these twelve 'stations of the cross' around the perimeter of my church, with little booklets at the ready so we could read along with the specifics of the agony at every station.  Doing the 'stations of the cross' were occasionally imposed as penance after Confession.  I once asked my Greek Orthodox husband if he had these 'stations of the cross' in his church (where he had been an altar boy, so it seems reasonable that he would know) and he didn't know what I was talking about.

It lifts my heart to hear a Christian minister call the virgin birth a "bizarre claim" and who has the courage to say that the "pervasive idea of an abusive God-father who sends his own kid to the cross so God could forgive people is nuts."

I'm no longer religious, but I might still be going to church if I had grown up with common-sense Christianity like this.

1 Reply395 RecommendShareFlag
John commented April 21, 2019
J
John
Milwaukee
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Jesus, the Christ, that I now believe in is for us all (Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, and atheists). The first few paragraphs of John’s Gospel speaks of  Christ coming into the world as the Word made flesh. Words are metaphor for thought. The words are God’s thoughts for us; and his flesh embody God putting those words into action. 
What are those thoughts then? Love your neighbor (the parable of the Good Samaritan), God’s love is endless (the parable of prodigal son), forgive again and again (defending the woman at the well  saying “let him without sin cast the first stone, and directives to forgive 7 times 70 times….),  the Beatitudes, directions to feed the hungry, welcome the stranger, cloth the naked, love your enemies,.and on.... Such  radical thoughts for human kind! (And not really rational thoughts at all for tribal societies—as demonstrated even today by our conduct toward each other). 
And his actions? Healing, accompanying the “least” in society, weeping for others, and ultimately being abandoned and slayed upon a tree—yet forgiving through it all (“forgive them for they do not know what they do”).
These radical thoughts (expressed in Words) and actions (expressed in human flesh) – divine and transcendent thoughts and actions-- struck a cord in hearts then and now -- 2000 years later-- as a desire for and guide to the transcendent life.  
In this holiday period, a Happy Easter and Passover to all.

3 Replies194 RecommendShareFlag
Nat Irvin commented April 21, 2019
N
Nat Irvin
Louisville
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As a preacher’s kid, who grew up in the black southern baptist church and surrounding traditions, (age 67) hearing the words of Serene Jones would have caused our church folks to lose their minds! Jones was surely going to hell and I would not be allowed to be in her company; yet, these same folks loved me and nurtured my curiosity into later choosing to major in philosophy in college, to challenge my most fundamental beliefs about God, heaven and hell, and the veracity of the virgin birth. While I suspect that the women who patted their feet on wooden floors while the deacon’s prayed over communion may have had their own doubts about the whole Easter story, what they did believe and practiced was that I should love others as Christ loved me. From them, as well as my parents, I escaped with the power to love others and not hate and to forgive as I wish to be forgiven. Whether they would really send Serene Jones to hell on Easter, I doubt it; more likely they’d invite her in for fried chicken, green beans ham, hot rolls, and sweet tea.

1 Reply163 RecommendShareFlag
manfred marcus commented April 21, 2019
M
manfred marcus
Bolivia
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As an agnostic, I find Serene Jones' thoughts refreshing. That a god was created according to human specifications is in and by itself suspicious. Somebody said that heaven and hell are within us, and it's up to us to show who we are. We seek justice and peace in this world but realize how distant that is. Quite frankly, whether there is a god or not is not for us to say, we are just no smart enough to know.

2 Replies106 RecommendShareFlag
CoquiCoqui commented April 21, 2019
C
CoquiCoqui
PR
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
I found my beliefs explained here as never before I had. So maybe I am a Christian after all. Or maybe I am a Buddhist. I feel that the supernatural thing is that I am a human being with a conscience of my existence in this world, that my need to be good arises only from the fact that I need to love. "For me, living a life of love is driven by the simple fact that love is true." 
It is good to see that after all I am not a bad person due to the fact that I don't believe in Christian mythology, as I was forced to think when I was growing up. If so called Christian families knew the damage they do to their children when they are inquisitive and doubtful of religious beliefs. The menace of hell lasts for a long time, until you understand that the physical hell is an imposible thing, just as is heaven. I only wish that if there is an afterlife I do not go to the place my mother described as heaven. Non edible fruits, made of precious stones, are not my favorite food, and a crystal sea is not a place in which I want to spend the longest vacation of my existence.

2 Replies89 RecommendShareFlag
Gary Pippenger commented April 21, 2019
G
Gary Pippenger
St Charles, MO
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
If only Christianity as practiced remotely resembled what Jesus seemed most concerned about! Why didn't Jesus write anything to be left for his followers? The biblical accounts indicate he was literate and could argue theology at the temple.  Maniacal Saul of Tarsus came along and borrowed all  kinds of ideas and concepts from the prevailing religions and philosophies of the time as well as ancient ones. We really have "Paulianity," not Christianity. The religion has become very complex--mostly to cover the irrational and unbelievable aspects--and that led to vulnerability to politics and power.  It has happened to the other religions as well. Just in the last 12 hours, bombings of Christians in Sri Lanka by "radical Buddhists" is suspected! I don't think fundamentalist and Evangelical Christians can explain why Jesus left no writings of his own, given that those groups obsess about  the Literal and Inerrant truth of the writings in the Bible. No, the "gospels" are not actual, factual reports written by literate people within weeks of the crucifixion: they appeared 30--90 years after Jesus life, and even with printing and video technology today, accounts that old would be highly skewed and fictionalized. We are constantly seeing revised, reinterpreted accounts of events in the 20th century. So it is the nature of religion to be legends, myth, and lore. Wringing any true direction and comfort from this material is getting more and more difficult.

8 Replies82 RecommendShareFlag
Khalid Rehman commented April 21, 2019
K
Khalid Rehman
Manhattan
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
As an immigrant, an American of Muslim faith and an Interfaith activist, I have been reading many articles during this Easter / Passover week. As a physician and a man of science, I do believe in a much higher power that has created this immense universe. Immaculate conception is not a challenge for that power (God or whatever name we give) who created the universe from nothing. Similarly, death and resurrection are not difficult for the Divine. As a Muslim, I belive in Prophet Isa (Jesus) and his message of love, care and respect of others. I agree with Rev. Jones that we must not act only to please God), but being good to our fellow human beings is a reward in itself. Prayers are for self reflection and self improvement. God is too big to be waiting for my few words of praise for him.

5 Replies132 RecommendShareFlag
Wordsworth from Wadsworth commented April 21, 2019
W
Wordsworth from Wadsworth
Mesa, Arizona
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
The immaculate conception and virgin birth are metaphors.   They signify the opening of the human heart.

Christ died to his human self and was resurrected in spirit, to a new ideal of compassion, love and unity.

It a metaphor, and the ideal of Christians.

We just don't know what happened.  Scientifically it could not have happened that way.   In addition, the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas unearthed in 1945 says Jesus ate a piece of fish, and walked through a wall.   If at all, perhaps his body was not there as we conceive it.   Then there was the road to Emmaus incident.   They did not recognize the risen Jesus, he broke bread with them, they recognized him, and he disappeared.   It was almost as if the faithful were projecting the "Twilight Zone" onto the image of Jesus. 

But we know basically what Jesus said.   The point is to die to your ego, and to be reborn with love and compassion as much as possible.  Being born again does not mean declaiming about the life of Jesus, and your personal relationship with a being who has as much empirical proof as the Easter Bunny.  

Belief in supernatural feats is not necessary.   Making God visible by living as Jesus is louder than words.   Talk is cheap.   Christian compassion on a quotidian basis is difficult for all of us flawed humans.

5 Replies78 RecommendShareFlag
pgd commented April 21, 2019
P
pgd
thailand
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
I am surprised that so many comments here seem to confuse theology and religion . Theology is the study of religions and has become, quite fortunately, a secular discipline which allows believers and non believers alike to investigate all the creeds, myths and symbols that are the foundation of faith - the basis for all religions . As I read this article, it seems to me that what Reverend Jones is saying is that you can be a Christian and question some of the tenets of Christianity (particularly Catholicism) many of which were developed a century or more after the death of the historical Jesus and his apostle .

Having faith does not prohibit critical thought . "Blind" faith leads to stupidity or blatant hypocrisy . I will always remember Senator Marco Rubio who, upon being asked if he  believed that Earth was really created 4500 years ago, felt compelled to appease his constituents by answering "I don't know, I am not a scientist" .

Conversely, I had a philosophy professor who happened to be a Jesuit priest specializing in Existentialism . He taught us about Sartre and Kirkegaard and never failed to extend to both the same respect .

1 Reply68 RecommendShareFlag
Julie commented April 21, 2019
J
Julie
Louisvillle, KY
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Conservative evangelicals and liberal theologians such as Serene Jones have one thing in common.  They both reduce God to a manageable human who conforms to the expectations of our own little world view. The evangelical God is often vain, cruel and unjust like many of our own leaders; our President for example.  Jones' God is a vulnerable, rather ineffectual God who wrings His (Her) hands over evil and, like us, hopes for the best.  Any God worthy of our faith will be above our petty expectations. Science offers insights into nature, but this insight reinforces, rather than dimishes, our sense of the magnitude of God's creation. Miracles are not an impediment to modern faith; they are a prerequisite.  The resurrection is no stumbling block but a launching pad to the understanding of our relationship to God and reality.

3 Replies80 RecommendShareFlag
David commented April 21, 2019
D
David
Virginia
April 21, 2019
Times Pick
Religion, like philosophy, should be allowed to adapt to our changing understanding of the world. Just as Stoicism offers a lot but shouldn't require us to accept Chrysippus's metaphysics, religion should be allowed to evolve. The virgin birth isn't something we should be hang our hats on. Sure, the hint that sex is dirty is there if someone wants to play it up, but that's probably not what Matthew was going for. In myth-world, a great person needs a great lineage. That's why Herakles' father is Zeus and divine ancestry comes to be attributed to many historical Greeks. The virgin birth story
exists because the Septuagint's use of the word parthenos offered Mathew to opportunity to introduce that story; and, as divine parentage goes, for obvious reasons, Zeus wasn't an option.

39 RecommendShareFlag
Join a subscriber-only event. Connect with our journalists. See the lineup.

No Text


===

Sutta Pitaka: The Basket of Suttas

Sutta Pitaka: The Basket of Suttas

Sutta Pitaka
The Basket of Suttas

The Sutta Pitaka, the second division of the Tipitaka, consists of more than 10,000 suttas (discourses) delivered by the Buddha and his close disciples during and shortly after the Buddha's forty-five year teaching career, as well as many additional verses by other members of the Sangha. More than one thousand sutta translations are available on this website.

The suttas are grouped into five nikayas, or collections:

Digha Nikaya
The "Long" Discourses (Pali digha = "long") consists of 34 suttas, including the longest ones in the Canon. The subject matter of these suttas ranges widely, from colorful folkloric accounts of the beings inhabiting the deva worlds (DN 20) to down-to-earth practical meditation instructions (DN 22), and everything in between. Recent scholarship suggests that a distinguishing trait of the Digha Nikaya may be that it was "intended for the purpose of propaganda, to attract converts to the new religion." [1]
Majjhima Nikaya
The "Middle-length" Discourses (Pali majjhima = "middle") consists of 152 suttas of varying length. These range from some of the most profound and difficult suttas in the Canon (e.g., MN 1) to engaging stories full of human pathos and drama that illustrate important principles of the law of kamma (e.g., MN 57MN 86).
Samyutta Nikaya
The "Grouped" Discourses (Pali samyutta = "group" or "collection") consists of 2,889 relatively short suttas grouped together by theme into 56 samyuttas.
Anguttara Nikaya
The "Further-factored" Discourses (Pali anga = "factor" + uttara = "beyond," "further") consists of several thousand short suttas, grouped together into eleven nipatas according to the number of items of Dhamma covered in each sutta. For example, the Eka-nipata ("Book of the Ones") contains suttas about a single item of Dhamma; the Duka-nipata ("Book of the Twos") contains suttas dealing with two items of Dhamma, and so on.
Khuddaka Nikaya

The "Division of Short Books" (Pali khudda = "smaller," "lesser"), consisting of fifteen books (eighteen in the Burmese edition):

  1. Khuddakapatha — The Short Passages
  2. Dhammapada — The Path of Dhamma
  3. Udana — Exclamations
  4. Itivuttaka — The Thus-saids
  5. Sutta Nipata — The Sutta Collection
  6. Vimanavatthu — Stories of the Celestial Mansions
  7. Petavatthu — Stories of the Hungry Ghosts
  8. Theragatha — Verses of the Elder Monks
  9. Therigatha — Verses of the Elder Nuns
  10. Jataka — Birth Stories
  11. Niddesa — Exposition
  12. Patisambhidamagga — Path of Discrimination
  13. Apadana — Stories
  14. Buddhavamsa — History of the Buddhas
  15. Cariyapitaka — Basket of Conduct
  16. Nettippakarana (Burmese Tipitaka only)
  17. Petakopadesa (Burmese Tipitaka only)
  18. Milindapañha — Questions of Milinda (Burmese Tipitaka only)

Notes

1.
Bhikkhu Bodhi, Connected Discourses of the Buddha (Somerville, Mass.: Wisdom Publications, 2000), p.31, referring to Joy Manné's "Categories of Sutta in the Pali Nikayas and Their Implications for Our Appreciation of the Buddhist Teaching and Literature," Journal of the Pali Text Society 15 (1990): 29-87.